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How about if two blades slam out of the side of the arrow on impact, holding it in its place? If the top of the arrow could be squeezed in like a button, the impact should have enough power to blast the two sides out and make a hole for the rope arrow to stay in. When the player wants it back, a button on the lower end of the arrow causes the twin blades to fold back in, and he can retrieve the arrow. (But of course in the Thief world such dedication to the laws of physics is not needed.)

I wasn't really all that interested in the first one, but i have some good ideas for the cray-replacement, such as giving it the ability to crawl on cave walls and ceilings, as well as swim rather fast. (those are gills on it's head) To offset this it's attack would not be extremely strong, and it would be rather easy to kill, if you can hit it. It would probably attack by darting in at the player then retreating, repeat so on and so forth. Conjcerning pagans, i find they actually become interesting when they're potrayed as stark raving mad. I'm writing this kind of thing into the movie, and i think that if they are not only insane, but very sinister in it, they could be a much better faction than they were in any of the thief games.

alas, not really - but i really wanna give it (the mod-making) a try this year. i just quit my job in advertising and am now pursuing all the things i always wanted to do: practicing my animation skills (cartoons for now), producing music on a semi-professional basis (learning pro-tools) and writing (hey, one of my screenplays even won a prize 2 years ago - didn't get made though). also through my years spent in advertising i'm pretty good with photoshop, although i've never done textures before. anyways i don't plan to reinvent the wheel and i've got no delusions of grandeur - i just wanna make a few simple but fun single player maps with a nice storyline to hold it all together. kind regards gleeful

A Very Basic, Simple Version of the Plot (V 1.0) I have no idea what the Thief is called, so far now I’ll just call him ‘Thief’. I’d thought of ‘Picasso’ (he’s an artist, see?), but maybe that’s too exotic. I’ve tried my best not to let the plot get ‘epic’ towards the end. In fact, the whole crux of the ending is that the character does not want to get involved. He is not a Garrett, out to save the world. He is just out to save himself and… well, I don’t want to spoil it. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Level 1: Escape From Low-knot Prison Background: “Six years of war had made a general of me, but once I heard my City had been taken over by the enemy I knew I’d have to go home by the quickest route. So I allowed myself to get caught; nothing hurt but my pride, and much better than going back home on the back of a cart to be buried in some anonymous grave with the rest of the taffers. Now I’m here in the City again, a prisoner of war, and all I have to do is escape to see my wife and daughter again.” Information: The title says it all. You simply have to escape the Prisoner of War building. This level takes place in the old part of the City, the medieval part. Enemies are normal prison guards. Level 2: No Honour Among Thieves Background: The Thief finds that his wife and seven year old daughter have died in his absence. “They were both dead; killed by who, I didn’t know, and it didn’t seem to matter at the time. The City was responsible. I lay around in its dingy bars for a while, no one knowing or caring that an enemy was in their midst. The war seemed to be taking place in another world, beyond the tight stone shell of the City. After a while I decided that it was time to get my old job back.” “The Thieves Guild was still there, but after six years I wasn’t known and they certainly wouldn’t welcome me back with open arms. You couldn’t kill your way to the top of the Thieves Guild; well, you could. But then you wouldn’t have a guild to control. And after six years of war, I’d seen enough of death for one lifetime.” “I had to work my way to the top, with old fashioned thieving. The head man was a rich alchemist called Tybalt with strong ties to the Guild of Mages. He lived on the wealthy side of the city, out of the shadow of the Builder’s Palace. If you can’t kill your way to the top, apparently you can just buy it.” Inside Tybalt’s Office in the Thieve’s Guild Tybalt: Any thieving experience? This isn’t just a case of hacking and slashing like in that war. Talent is thin on the ground these days, and rationing make the rewards meagre. I of course, have other means of getting what I want. Tybalt places a gemstone with a lions head on it into his desk. Tybalt: This is a rare gemstone of great worth. It shall stay in this desk. If you can hand it to me at five o’ clock tomorrow morning when I awake, the job is yours. Information: The test is to sneak into the Thieves guild and steal the gemstone. The Thieves Guild is also in the medieval section of the City, but there may be some steampunk devices and victorian architecture in the upper floors around Tybalt’s office. This is up to the level designer. Level 3: Brotherhood of the Renaissance Background: You return the gemstone to Tybalt. Tybalt: “I’m very impressed, not only because you stole the gemstone but because you brought it back. It shows loyalty.” You: “It’s a fake.” Tybalt: “Of course it is. You can tell by the triplets. You’re a clever man.” Voice Over: “He didn’t know the gem used to belong to me when I played the same game with new recruits. Calling me clever could have meant two things: a career, or a rusty knife through the mattress of my bed one night. But he gave me a job, regardless of any dangerous intelligence.” Tybalt: “The Builder’s who 'conquered' us have set up residence in the Old part of the City. Those religious fanatics are powerful, and they don’t like us ‘heathen’ mages with our pagan magic and colourful alchemy. I fear a war in the City one day, when there’s naught abroad to distract them. We must ally ourselves with the enemy, supply them with our technology, worship their god, and kiss the Emperor’s feet.” Tybalt: “There is a cult calling themselves the Brotherhood of the Renaissance that meet monthly in one of the richer districts of the City. I can’t have them killed because they’re all nobles, politicians, people like me with more money than brains who like to meet up under a full moon, dabble in witchcraft and necromancy; the exact kind of thing the Builder loves to smite. It is essential that these kinds of activities be put a stop to if we are to survive the Builders occupation.” Information: The first part of this level resembles the classic ‘Thieves Highway’ of Thief 2, as you make your way cross the City to the mansion where the meeting will take place. The second part takes place in the mansion itself. You overhear a meeting in which the members of the secret guild discuss a planned resurrection. They mention a ‘Renaissance Cauldron’. The leader of the cult departs, and you are told to follow him. But when you leave the mansion he is gone. A young girl who tells you to follow her after the men approaches you. The architecture of the mission is wealthy Victorian, set in the advanced half of the City, with the most advanced steampunk technology guarding the nobles houses. Level 4: Nocturne of the Dead Background: “I followed the little girl through the busy streets, the crowd parting before her like a sea of black. I struggled to catch up. As we reached the borders of the city we saw the two men leave by the East Gate. I have a feeling they’re not going for an afternoon stroll.” Information: This is the scary dead mission. It begins on the outskirts of the City from where you have to follow the two men out towards an old, evil castle. Your objective is to steal the Book of Going Forth which the necromancers are suing in their resurrection rituals. However, before you can steal the book you see a ritual taking place. The necromancers place a body into the Renaissance Cauldron, which rises out reborn. The resurrected man is The Baron, a horrible, scary, skeletal man. After the ritual you steal the book and leave. Architecture is a kind of very evil gothic. The level designer should have fun with this one. Level 5: Classical Tyrannicide (working title ) Background: You return to Tybalt’s house with the Book of Going Forth. You step into the living room and see that he is... drinking wine with the Baron and his female aide. Tybalt: “Ah, I see you’ve already met the gracious Baron Marw.” You: “But…” Tybalt: “Don’t. I must apologise for the actions of my thief, but do not blame him. He was acting strictly under my orders. I believe you have something that belongs to this gentleman?” You hand over the Book of Going Forth. The Baron’s aide extends a bony hand and takes it. Tybalt: “The situation has changed, Thief. We must adapt. The Baron has come to me with quite a tempting proposition, one that would solve many of our problems.” Baron: “Yes.” Tybalt: “You know of this Renaissance Couldron, Thief? And you have witnessed its power? The Baron’s plan is genius, and would ensure the alliance between us and the Builder’s children for many years to come. Perhaps you would like to tell him the rest?” The Baron smiles his skeleton grin. He holds up a ball. In it we see the Emperor of the Builders upon his throne. He is pierced by an arrow. Builder: “The Emperor is struck down! He is dead.” We see the Baron carry the dead body of the Emperor towards the Renaissance Cauldron, and place him in. The Emperor awakens, grasping the side of the cauldron. Builder: “He lives! The magic of the Builder inspired these mage’s work.” Baron: “He owes us his life!” Information: This level involves sneaking into the Builders palace and killing the Emperor. The way the player chooses to do this would depend on his playing style. Those who prefer ghosting can poison his food, etc, and leave the level without technically having killed anyone. The less bothered could just put an arrow in him. The architecture should be the most magnificent Gothic imaginable, with huge cathedrals, stain glass, ecetra. The palace is in the old section of the City. Level 6: Background: You walk down near the sea. There are celebrations in the distance. You hear a sound behind you. It is the little girl. Girl: “You shouldn’t have helped them. You have to stop them.” You: “It isn’t my place to stop them. I was just a pawn in their game, and now I am leaving the chessboard.” Girl: “You shouldn’t kill people, father. It hurts. I know.” She reaches out her hand, and it passes through yours. She is your daughter’s ghost. You: “Who did this to you?” Girl: “The Thieves Guild took care of us after you left, but then Tybalt took over and sold us to ‘them’. They want to use the Cauldron to win the war, to bring their soldiers back to life.” You: “The war is no concern of mine.” You look down at the ghost. You: “But, my daughter, you are. I could… bring you back.” Information: Your mission is the final level is to break into the Mage’s Tower, steal your daughters body, bring her back to life in the Cauldron and then escape without either of you dying. You will also need to steal the Book of Life to do this. The level is a mix of steampunk and gothic elements. Outro: Tybalt’s living room. Tybalt: “You are to be made the leader of the Thieves Guild in my absence. Now that I am a Baron, we will of course be enemies. But I won’t come down that hard on you, my old friend. You know, I’m sure your daughter looks familiar.” You: “You might have met her mother.” Tybalt: “Yes, probably. You meet a lot of people in my line of work. Almost never in social situations, though. (Sighs) Happy thieving.” LE FIN ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Any elements you like, or dislike, say so.

That sounds quite intriguing. I look forward to seeing a mockup of this. I don't think it is something that would be included with the toolset though, but rather the campaign. This gives us more time to really play test all of the possibilities. One problem I could see with the mini hud is that it changes the play mechanic since you would need to relinquish mouse control to a pointer. The player wouldn't be able to look around or perform other functions, if I understand correctly.

I'll have to look at Spring's idea more later. My HUD proposal (unless it was a repeat of what Spring proposed) would retain the exact functionality of T2 for players that want to play it that way, but also had the added benefit of being able to slide the mini-HUD in, if the player desired as sometimes I get lazy and want to click the weapon/item I want. As far as looks of the HUD while you're moving around and if you hit "2" to select Blackjack or whatever, i think I'd want it to be as much like T2 as possible, personally.

Ok, then replace "flashbomb" with "potion", or "compass" or "key" or any other object that isn't a weapon. Unless you want the player to only be able to select one thing at a time, this remains an issue. Yes, that is another story. So what about my suggestion? I think it achieves the minimal look some of you want, while allowing people to keep the classic interface if someone chooses to. And it doesn't require any new animations or HUD design work. Anyone object?

I just stumbled upon this site tonight. Nice. I think its great to see another mod being inspired by the greatest game ever made: Thief. Keep up the good work, I garuntee I'll be DLing this the day it's released. I read in the FAQ that there isn't any multiplayer plans for this mod. I'm an avid thievery player... and I implore you to reconsider. Focus on the editor and campaign first of couse, but after that if you still have life in you it would be great to get another sneaky multiplayer game going. Either way though, I support your efforts. I don't even own Doom 3... but I'll buy it just for this mod if you'll put it out for me. Thanks a million times over!

The problem with this approach is that it doesn't work so well with the arrows. If you select an arrow this just means that this is the current weapon. But when you select it, it doesn't mean that the arrow should be knocked all the time. Because you just would see the bow and only when you actually trigger the arrow, you will take an arrow from your quiver, put it on the bow and then pull the string. But then then player will only see th ebow as an idle animation which is not exactly helpfull. I don't remember right now how T2 solves this, but I can test it when I'm at home.

If we use the shadow transport system, then he could only teleport in when that guy was in a shadow as well. So the player would have to lure the guy into the light in order to take him down without problems.

Hmm, the problem might come up when they are actually in a fighting situation, though. With armor, it's easy to figure "I can barely hurt this guy!" But when he's a robed martial arts/combat (or whatever) expert, he will require the AI and animations galore to show the player that he/she's not even landing hits. And also, that might lead to frustration. "WTF, how are you supposed to hit these guys? Screw this." The AI would have to be really air-tight, making it nearly impossible to land a hit at all times, or people would find ways to exploit it just like they did sword fighting in Thief. That is, unless the plan is just to allow for the same AI and animations, but use beefed up health values and assume they're just "tougher." And in that case, I myself prefer the huge burly hulking mountain-of-a-man guard look, the guys that scare the crap out of you on sight, the guys that make you want to use another hallway altogether... The guys that make you say, "oh fuck, I'm not even going to try that." Just some thoughts. Edit: On re-reading, I noticed "...rather than having all the elites..." so perhaps the intention is just in addition to regular bulked up captain elite types? I'm all for it.

Sorry about the confusion. There are greater things at work in the background, you are correct there, but we don't want it to be a "save the world" type of premise. Much like real life, there are things going on in the background that affect our day to day business. I would suspect that our characters motivations would be based on the fact that his life is being disturbed. Not by his good will. Anyway, short answer...yes, there are larger threads in the background...but they should not be immediately aware to the player or our main character. These things can be hinted at through disruptions in our characters life. Perhaps what seems to be disturbing his life on the surface is later revealed to be a part of something larger. Sorry to be so vague, but I don't want to push you in any specific direction or taint your line of thinking.

Thievery UT works really well as a REAL multiplayer Thief game. The only problem we found (at home on our LAN) is that guards tend to get bored - but to counter that, I always play the guard, and I am the only human guard in the entire level, the rest of the humans are thieves, and I use all the NPC guards to my advantage... Being the expert thief player, I know all the tricks... and I really give those thieves a run for their money! They've only won 1 game over me so far!! We have a blast. And it's NOT combat oriented! It plays JUST like T2! Except I'm the role of the general, doing my patrols, checking up on all the other guards, making sure everything is in order, setting up traps and choke points, setting patrol routes, etc. etc. It totally rocks. It really is "multiplayer Thief".

Yeah I know... as I mentioned I'm an avid Thievery player and I'm well aware of Night-Blade. However it's focus is more on combat than what I prefer... I'm sure it will be fun but the more options I have the better. Thievery was absolutely great, and still is. I still play it almost nightly, and I've been playing it for years, with a short break here and there. Thats uncommon for me.

A multiplayer Thief inspired mod is already being produced over at Black Cat Games. It's called Nightblade. We've chosen to focus only on single player as they are sure to produce an amazing product.

Ghost chain rattling sfx fx_chains01.ogg fx_chains02.ogg fx_chains03.ogg This one I wasn't sure what to use it for... city ambient sound when you first start? maybe when player gets killed? I'm not sure... listen and you decide. trippystring2.ogg

And WE'RE telling you that there IS another way to climb walls being talked about, and yes it ISN'T the rope arrow. The rope arrow doesn't make it redunant. It's wall climbing. It's just not with "climbing gloves". The gloves are aesthetic. They're not dependant on the actual function. The function of "wall climbing" is being talked about. It's just not going to look like gloves. And it won't work EXACTLY the same as T3, which is a bit too much of an advantage for the player. There are more limitations imposed to balance the game better. But like I said, it's being discussed. It's not concrete, but it's being discussed.

Kein problem was just curious. Also, though this may seem a little far fetched, when I played T1 and T2, in many levels after perfectly ghosting a mission or FM, I'd sometimes go to the most important room in the house/mansion (Ramirez' bedroom on 3rd floor in assassins, upstairs office in Cragcleft, Karras' office in Life of the Party) and leave a "signature" saying I was there - just to piss them off. Sometimes I'd fire a single broadhead into the headboard, leave a master key on their desk, an important note or message in the kitchen, etc. So...what I'm getting to is this..what if you had the ability to bring a little "notepad" with you? Sort of like the writeable map feature in T2 - except it's an actual little book. You could jot down important notes, even import small jpegs so they appear in the book, or...at the end of a mission, when all is done well and you need only escape...you decide to give in to the mischievious little schoolboy and write a nasty note and tear off the page and leave it whereever you like? Maybe even shot into place with a broadhead arrow? Yes, it's strange, but even in a single player game like T1 and T2, people enjoyed doing strange things already (frogbeasting and many more). Sorry to sound like an overanxious fan, but this Mod project seems to be doing that to me lately.

Despite Thief 1 and 2's greatness, I always found myself wishing the player could switch his sword for a guard's sword or other weapon (club, mace, whip - whatever). Any chance we may be able to switch weapons with those of knocked out/dead/sleeping guards? Maybe switch clothing a la hitman as well? I know it's asking a lot, but I wouldn't be dissapointed if it weren't implemented anyhow.

I think anyone could easily lift someting else while hloding an arrow in their hand. I don't thin the payer hand will actually reach out to frob things anyway. It doesn't in the previous games. This does require a certain amount of thought for the player. You have to have memorized all your hotkeys, you have to mentally keep track of how many of each arrow and item you have left, and you have to learn each arrow and item by sight. Not for noobs, obviously. I hope we're having the system where the health bar only pops up fior a few seconds when you take damge to let you look at it, and it's not just lingering there the entiure time. That should be implemented by default.

Since I was supposed to finish that model last week I've been busy. I was doing the elite guard concept, then figuring out the rope for Domarius, then making the player arms an bow, then getting together some references for this model, and I'm currently doing the bow and blackjack animaitons. I'll finish the house guard before I start on the thief though Ishtvan, those are good points, but if we start getting into this realism thing, then he shouln't be wearing loud shoes either. The reason I'm doing the frog and not a sheath, is because it's easier to animate - or at least when he draws and replaces the sword its'll be too quick to see that it is cutting through the frog straps. If there was a sheath you would see it cutting through. I'm goign to do this frog idea foe all the weapons. For the hammers, they can have a ring holder on a baldrick. Springheel pointed out that there is no game in existence where players draw their weapons out of sheathes, and theere are technical animation reasons for it.

Great, thanks. Yeah, one of them was that one I sent Pakmannen, but don't worry about being busy, happens to all of us. Due to my ineptitude at Fruity Loops, the overall volume of this track is fairly soft. I fixed up the volume a little bit in Goldwave, but I kept getting unwanted distortion when I tried to go any higher. So you may have to turn your speakers up or use a media player with smart volume management to actually hear anything. Thiefesque.mp3 I'm still not happy with the choir part in that, but don't have time to revise it now. Also, after I was done, I noticed the last guitar melody is VERY similar to that of the Thief 2 intro theme. Guess I was a little 'too' inspired. Here's another one that doesn't fit as well with Thief; it's very 'techno-y' with lots of synths and stuff, but I wrote it with some sort of stealth game in mind, so figured might as well post it. stealthy1latest.mp3 Btw @Sparhawk: Don't get worried that I wasted valuable "coding time" to do these, thiese were done before I joined the team.

Don't know why I haven't responded to this earlier. Well the reason it, if you look at the naming scheme, that all things you frob have the "frob" prefix. Like this: "frob_door_metal_open", "frob_door_wood_close", "frob_food_apple", frob_food_deerleg", "frob_instrument_harp" and now then: "frob_instrument_victrola" and "frob_instrument_musicbox". It's a much smarter system than the one which was used in Thief 1/2 (if you even can call it a system, they just threw everything inside one folder and named it stuff like "DOORS1C" "dronelp", "FAKEWIND5" etc.) And of course you can use it in a cutscene if you wish, but the main purpose of the sound is to be played when the player frob a musicbox. Oh, and I'll make the names as long as I want to!

I don't underestimate them. That's why I want to support them by adding features that makes it interesting for such hardcore player to play it. Otherwise I wouldn't bother the extra effort. LOL. Whatever a "little shove" means. Why should I bother to change anybodys attitude? They can see the threads on TTLG and read about this playstyles and if they are interested they will give it a try. But nobody needs to be forced into such a playstyle he doesn't want. That's what T3 was doing. I hope that we do better in that area, because we are NOT catering for the total newbies. I felt it quite insulting in T3 that notes were literally shoved into my face because the devs wanted to make sure that you read their great lyrics. But enhancing a game means to me that the challenge should come from the gameplay mechanics and not from arbitrary restrictions that are only frustrating in the end, because this will just cause players to drop it.

It's unfortunate for the gaming public that I dont make the design decisions on ths board. I'd soon ween them off all their stupid hackneyed conventional gaming habits. You're the narrow minded blind man, not me. Your big idea for everything is 'let's do it the way its always been done, because that's what people expect and want' 'but games AHVE to have ahealth bar, games HAVE ALWAYS HADA HEALTH BAR, we can't possily make a game without one' 'but thief has ALWAYS had a lightgem, it's impossible to playe the game wihtout it, we HAVE TO HAVE a liht gem' 'but games always have HUD display of your weapons and items .we can't use go and do animatinos that let the player see wht he's holding in his hand, so no HUd is required whatsoever, no we couldn't POSSIBLy do that. THAt would cokpletey ruin the game for everyone' We all know having an iconic representation of everyting plastered all over your viewing screen is absolutely essential for enjoyment. How do we know this? - well, because Zelda did it 20 years ago and it worked. and don;'t give mne this 'choice' crap, sometimes you have to tell people what they want, or they'll never know they wanted it and just go on with what they have forever.