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I honestly haven't seen you around evilavatar, so I'll ignore the last comment. Everything else is fine with me really. qxD is my signiture, and there's nothing wrong with laughing a lot Hahaha have a lot of <_< folks! Peace out, Liquidize105

Well, I liked the number given in the last interview, Pakmannen saying the audio was "18.3% done". Could you present that information somewhere, for that and the other areas, updated occasionally? Also, why not have all the various screenshots put on your site, instead of scattered across multiple sites and interviews as they are now?

Someone isn't keeping me up to date on the situation here...last time I asked I was told that we could no longer link directly to files on the FTP due to the minihack. I just put the link up to the FTP cuz it was all I knew how to do.

Currently not. But ensuring that it will finally run on Linux is one of my priorities as I run Linux as my main system. It's not as bad in this case, because the only issue we can get is compiler errors. Operating system platforms should be minor because we are coding within D3 and not withing an operating system. Well, this sounds like you could be our Linux tester. My problem is that I can't run D3 on Linux right now, because I have no sounddriver for my card Creative Audigy ZS 2, which I bought specifically for T3. Maybe there is already a driver available because this was some months ago when I last checked.

Wow, I got my own thread. I am humbled. I really don't want to drag my personal life into this, so only a little background: *Old-die-hard-thief fan. I played it when it first came out. Somebody might infer a lot from the type of games I own, but then, I have also played games that I don't own and I own some games that I never played Anyway: http://digital-conquest.ath.cx/wiki/index.php/User:Tels * I am a full-time programmer by living. I code usually in Perl, but have done my share in C, XS, Pascal, countless other programming languages, assembler (back in "teh dayz" when you called yourself "coder", drank lot's of coffee and went to bed when the sun started to get so bright that you couldn't see the letters on the monitor anymore - e.g. right at dawn). However, the language you use does really not matter, because saying C is better than C++ or vice versa is saying that Russian is better than Esperanto. Use the right tool for the right job. * I gave up on windows a long time ago. (Before that, I used OS/2. Damn, now I feel really old * Beside programming, I also take apart other programs, fileformats etc. (See Cowgen Anyway, I am not qualified for C++ 3D coding. D3 scripting looks easy, though, after reading the tutorials. As soon as I get the dang radiant working I'll have a go One of the things that "bothers" me is that even nowadays, you always start mapping from scratch. I mean, you take an empty space, and add brushes. And if you want a staircase, you build it yourself, out of tiny, weeny, little solid slabs. Sounds manly, but boring - that is sooo 1995. I thought in the last 5 years people would have finally gotten the idea that doing this wastes a lot of time and automated the level creation process (see Cowgen, again . So currently I have the idea that I can write plugins/tools/extensions to radiant, that lets you automate boring tasks, like creating a staircase, or other often needed things. Another possible idea is to build "building blocks" like archs, staircases and have them as pre-made "stubs" that you can insert into your level as to not waste time just because you need a 12x8 staircase *now* Well, guess that doesn't sound all to impressive since I don't have definite projects or materials to show ) If you'd ask me what role I can see me in (in no particular order): Mapper (I love architecture, especally red brick churches , Scripter, Betatester extraordinaire. If I had to describe myself: "Hacker" (in the old-school sense Tels

http://www.bloodgate.com/perl/packages/cow.zip - Warning! Last modified Januar 2001 (e.g. four years ago...) Email is on the way with my new adresses. (I had to disable the taffer@ and thief@ adresses due to too much spam )

apt-get for Suse is, well lets say, vastly inferior to both Yast and the real thing on debian and emerge. Last time I used it, it completely fubared my system :/ I think we should continue the OS discussion elsewhere, if you want to chat about that sort of stuff Anyway, I'll find a way to install gtkradiant... Tels PS: Yes, would like to dabble in coding for dark mod, the doom3 engine impressed the hell out of me and the first thing I thought "wow, that would make a good Thief engine.."

Helo Dram! Do I know you? (Just kidding, because every Thief knows every Taffer Anyway, I asked about Linux, and I doubt that Doom3.exe will work here good enough. Thanx to the gtkradiant link from somebody else, I forgot about this one. Last time I looked, it barely had doom3 support and this version wasn't available for linux. Now it seems that should work, downloading it as I type this... Excuse me, I have a program to install Tels

That's obviously quaility work, but I'd need to see more complete models that that before judgment commences. Have you done any complete characters? Also, the last thing we need is another modeller who can't texture his own work, our texture artist can't keep up as it is, so show us some textured models if you have any. If your modeling is really awesome to behold you can probably get in on that strength alone, but if it's only good, you'll need to be able to texture them as well.

I also never had any real issues with Windows needing to reinstall. I had it a few times (more often then with Linux, where this was never required) but it was not THAT often that I really would complain about it. At least I only had a few occasions because of Windows crashing. What is usually the cause of new installation is when I do a hardware upgrade. This happened in the last two years three times where I was forced for a complete re-install. Linux is much better in that regard, because I never needed a complete re-install. Compiling a new kernel and that's it. The system works as before without any addtional installation required.

actually there was one major weakness to the T: DS way of doing it over T1 and T2 - there were no "unpickable" doors.. sure you might say a master thief like garret could lockpick anything, but then again in the first mission of T2 he is not portrayed as such, and has to rely on basso to open the door holding Jenivere. This is just my opinion, but in T1 and T2 unlockable doors greatly enhanced the gameplay. it meant that there wasnt one surefire way to get in anywhere, and required actual hunting for keys and clues to complete a mission. The whole concept of unlockable doors melded into the game remarkably well too. The importance of this shouldnt be underestimate - while a lot of freedom was given to the player, thief missions did not reflect real robberies - they presented the player with lots of unrealistic albeit fun stumbling blocks that required a change of appraoch. This diversified the gameplay somewhat, and unpassable doors were one very popular way of stopping the players advance. They also gave mission designers far more freedom to make interesting missions which people didnt fly right through. The darkmod doesnt have to emulate the Thief 3 way of lockpicking. Im sure there could easily be a way to make unpickable doors, but it would be more challenging to meld this concept into the actual game without creating disbelief - after all, once the player has to exercise skill to pass an obstacle, they expect that skill to be able to pass another obstacle of the same type. A detached approach as in thief 1 and 2 ensures that the player never percieves the bypassing of the lock as being in their full control, and so isnt as frustrated when it is not possible. In Thief 3 doors would become a testing ground for how fast you could get through them, and not being able to pick them at all would have proven very frustrating. I think each approach needs to be looked at in quite a lot of detail, as it does make a large difference in the game. A detached system such as in t1 and t2 can be made to be very simple yet just complicated enough to give the player the sense that they can speed the process up in some way. In thievery players would only use one set of picks and frob a door for the required time. This proved infinitely more boring than the pretty simple system of having 2 sets of picks that require switching. The advantage of a system like this is that the player never feels that they ought to be able to get through any door and therefore isnt frustrated when they cannot, the system is simple and melds easily into the game, is relatively easy to do yet satisfying while avoiding the random frustration of a more involved system. This is because a more involved system involves chance as you scout for pins, and missing the mark repeatedly can be very frustrating - the player is relying on their skill, and having youre picking time slowed down due to mistakes is not going to go down well. In essence the T1/T2 system is a very DEFINITE system - you can switch picks quicker, but other than that theres nothing you can do to speed the process up - it doesnt require much concentration, yet is still quite entertaining. It melds in easily enough, and seems very similar to using a key - this is important as similarities between picks and keys should be emphasised to create credibility. Finally the player isnt frustrated when their options are limited by unpickable doors, as they never had all that many options for unlocking doors in the first place. The player also never gets the feeling that they entered a minigame. An involved system such as in Thief 3 invariable requires a lot of concentration and ends up quite complicated. Compared to T1/T2 system, it is far more prone to chance, and at the end of the day never really stops the player getting through the door. All that such a system does is provide an interesting minigame and a chance to influence picking times with the players skill and a little luck. This is gonna create large disreptencies in the picking times between players. This type of system has almost exactly the same result as the more simple model - that is to open a door - as it is unlikely to involve so much skill as to make some doors impossible to pick. However, it does so in a more interesting, rewarding and deep, albeit more complicated and frustrating way. In the end the important thing is that player's experiences on this subject in thief 3 differed, so players should be given an option as per springheel's post. However, even in such a case it may be more difficult to include doors that cannot be bypassed by lockpicking without creating disbelief and/or frustration. This is a stiff negative. Another negative is the inherent difference in operation this will likely create between using a key and lockpicking, again taking away from credibility and detracting from the feeling of a common, universal and intuitive way of doing things. The third option is to create a system that is so scalable and yet so difficult at the high end that only highly skilled players will be able to pick the best locks, and yet even the lowest skilled able to pick simple locks. This would most reflect the real process of lockpicking, where an unskilled user will take a half hour, if at all, to pick their front door lock, while a highly skilled pro will pick almost any lock in under 30 seconds (personal experience!). However, it is a bit much to expect that such a system could indeed be made in a game without extra sensory inputs. I agree with Oddity that it is mostly improbable that the skill associated with lockpicking in real life can be even partially translated to a game. This system would also prove very complicated, frustrating and difficult to meld into the game, but would be very rewarding. Nevertheless, ruling the last system out, it comes down to which abstraction would prove most fun and flexible for both players and map designers. Both will serve no other purpose than to abstractly make the player feel that opening a locked door takes time and is difficult, creating tension and atmosphere. This is their primary role. Giving the player a choice as to which system to employ is probably the safest bet, but when you look at the purpose of lockpicking in the game in this way, it seems illogical to make an involved system so easy as to involve almost no delay in breaking in at all, and likewise illogical to prove slower than doing it the good old fashioned click and wait way. This combined with the difficulty of making an involved system convincing and not seem like a minigame means that even a system giving the player a choice is not going to be easy to implement. This is a very long post and probably excessively long, so i apologise to those who have managed to make it even half this way. I hope some of this helped!

We've discussed so many issues over the last 6 months, it's hard to be sure with out a search (and I can't be bothered) but I don't thionk we have decided yet. My personal opinion is that lockpicking is the most tedious of procedures in a game, and cannot be made interesting no matter what. It's only exciting to pick a door when there is a chance a guard is going to patrol past you at any second, so it creates a sense of urgency and tension. Having to pick a lock under any other circumstances by any means is utterly pointless and irritating, and the skill required to do it cannot be transfered to a game, wiht out making it a separate mini puzzle game (which everyione would despise even more) I think we should keep locked doors to a minimum (who locks internal doors anyway?) and only to areas with AI patrols. THe problems with having the hamds coming out, holding lockpicks like in T3, is that you have to have a 'suck in' animation to hold the player in the right position so the animaton lines up with the lock. No one here is a fan of sucking in. I always prefered to have to find keys to open important doors. Picling them always seemed too boring and easy asnd definite. I prefer the automatic door opening if you have the right key. Either that or you have to try every key you have, not having any idea which one it could be.

Taz, you have a good point, however (here's an idea), what about the rumours of zombies, tree-beasts, pagans, haunts, spiders, etc. I personally think that if I heard a rumour that zombies walk around the place where I'm planning to taff next, I would most DEFINATELY grab the sword any day over the dagger, the last thing you want is to be stuck against the wall when a tree-beast charges at you, yeah, i know, you could use a flashy. But the point is, a sword is much more appropriate in the world that Garrett lives in then a pissy dagger. Also, he could carry the sword on his back with the bow , though it is true that he carries so much crap that he must be Hercules. But anyway, good point --Dram

Ahhh, the hud.gui file. Indeed. I think it's these last two values: windowDef Lightgem { rect 250,400,100,80

Thanks BlackThief, I truly appreciate it. I know it probably sounds like I have a lot of time on my hands, being unemployed and all, but I seriously don't at the moment. After having worked in a call center for 3 years, where routine was where it's at, my ability to retain information is totally shot. It's disgusting. It's slowly coming back, but I can't believe that three years in a job like that ruined my memory so effectively. It has made studying for these exams a longer process than it should have been. Truly appreciated BT. It will be great to get this ingame at long last.

1. The long install for HL2 *does* suck. 2. I dislike Steam for the facts that (1) I feel violated every time it notices I don't have an internet connection, (2) I need to use their stupid interface to tell it which game I want to play (otherwise I risk Deathmatch opening up instead of HL2 when I click the HL2 icon), (3) it took FOREVER to get the game activated even though I have cable modem, (4) the Steam app is always running, (5) it's pretending to do me a favor when in fact its ruining my gaming life. The last thing I need is 10 little icons in the lower-left of my computer in the future, one for each game manufacturer I have installed on my machine. (6) The gravity gun doesn't pick up bodies and fling them around like the early movies indicated you'd be able to do. 3. I didn't really notice the AI in HL2 either. It didn't seem all that special. Enemies *would* just stand there and shoot you. Thief games still have it over all other games with respect to AI, imo. 3. I like HL2'd graphix, but D3's are great too. I've heard D3's graphix are actually better, but HL2 gives the appearance of good graphix because of superb level design and artwork. 4. I like HL2, but as soon as I finish the game, I plan to uninstall it ASAP to get rid of Steam.

*puts on his oDDity hat* Why would that be worthwhile? You want to quietly infiltrate your target and get out with no one the wiser, and you think it would be worthwhile to grab a huge bulky, shiny longsword, and somehow carry it in a way that's not awkward and noisy, just so you can maybe last maybe 5 seconds longer in a duel with a guard that trains sword combat day in and day out?

Just saw your post there oDDity - the script and def files aren't really cleaned up, and some of the variable names are still using the same names as the original weapons - for example, arrow_FUSE should be arrow_tiredtime or something. All I did was get it working, optimisation is the last step. But now that everyone seems to be happy with it and ready to tweak things, I'm more than happy to clean it up. (I just wish CVS upload would work for me, it would make this whole bloody thing easier)

Well, I'm one Canadian who quite likes hockey -- but I've never been a huge fan of the NHL in particular. After all, as an Ottawan, "my" team is chock full of Swedes and Czechs -- and last year's Stanley Cup winners are a bunch of French Canadians who play in a stadium full of Floridians. I just hope the lockout results in an NFL-style salary cap and profit-sharing system, so that smaller cities (like the Winnipeg Jets) could hold onto their franchises, Green Bay stylee. -Glee

lol, I actually spent alot of my time making box maps when I first started mapping..I made sure that each map was cooler looking than the last, but it stuck me in a rut for awhile. If you wanna go for something a little more challenging, try to make a map with multiple levels and a more spacious roof. If you really want to get crazy try and make some pipes that curve around stuff and bend upwards into a hole in the ceiling and make 45 degree angled walls. They're hard as hell to do, but if you can get em done you'll have a great start on mapping.

True. If I remember right (from last night ), in T2, raising the blackjack and holding it means you hold it back behind your ear, so it's offscreen, and you see the elbow of the raised arm up near the upper right of the screen. Not saying we should copy that exactly, but that's what they did. [edit - Yeah I guess applying the FPS field of view to the real position, you woud not really see your elbow.. T2 probably just put it in there so people could see it]

Hey, it let me reply without logging me out... awesome, but anyway, I found out why I couldnt replay to my last thread, it was because it got closed down...

Hmmm, It seems to keep logging me out whenever I press reply, and when I log back in and try clicking it again It logs me back out and makes me type my "Unregistered User Info". Anybody konw the problem? Oh and for some reason I couldnt find the Reply button on the last thread I made... is it only on the first page of the thread? That could be it cuz I remember I was reading on the 2nd or 3rd page when I thought of replying and couldn't find the button.

You guys are gonna add a sword only on the easiest difficulty level? You should just make it like the previous thief games(T1/T2 i mean). You could still use the sword on the hardest difficulty level which includes not killing anyone and the sword could be used as an act of defense(blocking an enemy's attack) maybe a last resort.A thief shouldnt be using the swords that guards use(longsword) so if you guys are gonna add a sword make it a shortsword in which the player can use to block. Just a suggestion By the way,are there going to stuff like zombies and mythical creatures in the previous thief games(obviously including TDS)? Will it take one more year to finish this mod? How is the mod progressing? Many thanks for your replies and GREATWORK!

Two things: First, oDDity, I see your point about breaking & entering vs armed robbery charges in modern times. However, as Renzatic said, the rule of law was not so good in the world we're talking about. If you got caught breaking in to an isolated noble's manor, guards could kill you without consequence, or said noble could just as easily have you tortured to death as turn you in to the authorities. Speaking of the authorities, in the Thief universe at least, they were not too kind to thieves. (anyone remember something like "thieves shall feast on the tongues of liars, who shall be fed the hands of thieves"). So even if you were turned over to the authorities, you'd probably end up tortured to death or worked to death in prison. Using a sword to defend yourself as a last option looks more promising than throwing yourself on the mercy of the guards and judicial system of that world. Also, you don't have to kill a guard to get away, just injure him enough so he decides to stop fighting you. Second, the thing that I liked most about the Thief series was multiple pathways. For example, several buildings had many points of entry. It was fun stalking around and trying to pick the best point of entry. So you had a lot of options, some worse than others (like the heavily guarded front door). I got satisfaction in knowing that I slunk around and found a good entrance point. Applying oDDity's logic about sword use to that situation, we might as well not make the front door frobbable right, because our thief character is so good that he'd never consider going in there. We might as well only make only one entrance point for the player, because the character would obviously know what the best one is right? Would I be as happy to find the entrance if it was just a linear map where I had to search for the one entrance that the mappers selected as the best one? No! That's linear gameplay. I like having choies, so that I can feel good about choosing the best entrance. The same thing applies to the sword. I get personal satisfaction from choosing never to draw it, or to throw it away at the start of a map. It's fun when it's your choice (and the game also rewards you by not having the AI come down on your ass when you kill and make a lot of noise). It's not fun when you have no choice.