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erm....start a relgious/ethical/moral debate in Off Topic if you want. Euthanasia's always a good laugh.

I agree but you should start a new thread with that so we can discuss it and document it properlly. This thread already has too many friggin ideas in it.

Well oDD, you can call it "eating anything", but the rest of us call it "having diverse taste". Your analogy for fast food isn't appropriate. I wouldn't say I can't get enough of FPSs, its just that there are a few good ones out there. Doom 3 isn't the best of them by far, but it has its good qualities. Look at it this way - me and my 2 brothers play Thievery UT, its the most adrenalin inducing and exciting game we can ever play, for all the reasons we play Thief, except to the power of 25 since its involving real humans as guards and Thieves. We also play Serious Sam 2 on co-op. It would seem to be another "simple FPS" but its just excecuted so flawlessly and it keeps the action coming "OMG the horizon is crawling with a wave of enemies again!" and throws in some really cool unique bits, like the part where you start at the top of the tower and the floors explode one by one at intervals, so you fall down a floor at a time in a pile of rubble, or the time you're all in a HUGE tube with gravity pulling outwards, so you're all running around the walls of it, its really trippy. Serious Sam 2 is exciting and fun, probably not as much as Theivery UT, but is exciting in a way that Thievery UT could never be, because it's different. And most people like variety in their lives.

THat's what I said fromt he start. Only elite mercs have them, and since they've been looting them from battle, not all of them have one, since not all of them have been in the same battles with the same enemies. Say, 50% of mercs have one. Since the elites will be quite rare and not on every map, that makes ther guns rare also.

Heheh, thanks for the "tard" translations of our comments. Now that I think about it, the wizard argument would kind've justify why they aren't widely used in military engagements. So that would actually make the presence of primitive guns in this world more believable to me, since no one would want to develop them for warfare/mass production when they can easily be defeated by any mage with enough skill to light a candle. [edit: To be fair, I kind've ripped off this idea from the Recluce series by LE Modesitt Jr. That was a very believable setting that did a good job of explaining how steamships and swords could coexist at one time] When it comes down to it, what to include in a setting is a pretty subjective judgement. So I guess I can say I "don't like the idea of it." I would be okay with having them in existence, but so rare that you wouldn't see them on most missions. Definitely not standard-issue for cityguards. Maybe a holdout piece for one paranoid and wealthy noble, or a single elite guard captain in the mansion. Maybe they could be present in an FM that took place on a far away continent or a merchant ship or something, but I honestly don't like the idea of including them in our standard setting. Also keep in mind, if a sentry has a firearm, one gunshot would pretty much alert all the guards in the map (assuming mansion-sized maps). If it was a matchlock tho, it would take some time for the sentry to prep it before firing. So a sentry would have to see you from a fairly long ways away, draw their matchlock pistol, light the match cord, clean the primer pan, etc, and then have a definite sighting of you before they fire. The glow from the lit match cord should warn you to stay in the shadows until they decide it was nothing and un-prep the gun. So if they actually do take a shot at you, you must have been standing in a pretty well lit area for quite some time, so you pretty much deserve to be shot at. Sorry to flip-flop so much in one post. Just throwing out some ideas. Summary: In conclusion, I would be okay with having matchlock pistols VERY rare in the setting (as in, several whole campaign missions should go by with no sightings of pistols). One could explain the primitive level of gun technology by saying that it's very easy for mages to defeat guns in war, so no one bothered to develop them further. Choosing matchlock pistols means that take a while to prep before firing, and then fire inaccurately and take a while to reload. Guards wouldn't start the firing preparations until they got pretty alerted, and even then wouldn't fire until they had a definite sighting of you. [edit: Also, they would not bother shooting at you if you were close, they'd just drop the gun, draw their sword and charge you] All of these factors mitigate the gameplay issues a little (altho it's still going to alert everyone within a huge radius when a guard fires off a gun)

Hey oDD, while you're over there, don't start putting words in my mouth: I enjoyed Deadly Shadows, as did Springheel (from what I've heard). I certainly didn't 'despise' it.

Yikes! I didn't realize a casual dropping of an idea would be taken so seriously. I think that is probably the strongest argument against gunpowder. It would almost invalidate their work, making it "no big deal" anymore. For the record, while I did mention it to start things, I'm not really a fan of using it. My original musing was just for the cannonball bots have bullets instead.

Whatever it is, if you have some kind of backup software like Ghost, I'd use it now. I had what was obviously the beginning of HD problems last year, and figured to myself "Ah shit. Well, I guess over the next couple of weeks, I'll have to start transferring stuff to the other PC." Wrong. It took all of 2 more bootups for the HD to go unusable. Cascade failure!

Thanks Dram! But you're in the wrong forum! If you argue against their practical use, then why did man start using them in the first place? They're more accurate, and quicker to fire; it just takes an age to reload.

Aye I'd rather start our own community here. Through the looking glass is fine, but I'd rather stay on this side for the time being. A forum there would tie our Thief inspired project directly to Thief itself, as if we were stealing the series. This isn't Thief, it's the Dark Mod.

I, for one, have seen live shows where women have inserted things larger than a newborn baby's head into their vaginas for fun. THey just like to whinge for effect. Women can't even take credit for babies - we do all the work at the start, then they just hang around for nine months while the baby grows automatically with no help or input from them, and pops out when it's ready

I think your blowing things way out of proportion NH. Sure aditya is a prick, but so is half the internet. No need to start polls which are by nature going to turn into flame wars.

Just start it again in the more general discussion bit.

THat's all anecdotal nonsense and myth. There's no real hard evidence that women can multi-task better than men, or have a higher pain or pressure tolerence. Even it it were true, so what? - so women can say locked up together for longer than men without losing it (except when they all hit their periods of course , and women's mensturation cycles do start to syncronise after a certain length of time ) Higher pain tolerence? What's the purpose in that? It's the hope of every human to stay as far away from pain as possible, so being able to tolerate a bit more isn't much of a boast. Multi-task? So they can do more tasks at once, but they're not as good as men at any of them ... - not much of a list , is it?

Yeah - they should not be considered priority material. I think it's normally better for women's voices to be played by women. I certainly couldn't do a woman's voice! As for modelling - yes, these high-detail models are far harder than the more blocky T1/2 ones. I've modelled a face with some success, but it seems I can never get the character that others can, although that could be due to lack of textures! As for normalmaps, it's not a question of detail, it's a question of it not looking "quite right" and also, not having enough experience to always know the best way to start modelling, giving me problems later on.

Thanks for the suggestions, and we'll think about it. Like I said though, we still have a LOT to worry about in terms of making an AI a challenging opponent before we start spending a lot of time on specific situations like this.

The keepers' traditional methods of remaining unseen have begun to fail them.. so they decided, if someone sees them, they'd better not tell anyone else, or they'll send this guy over to start playing a drum solo on your knees. If that doesn't work, they'll cut you.

Yes, allow me to also highly recommend an Athlon 64 chip. I got a 3000+ last summer and it continues to be great - hopefully well into next year, and when things actually start being 64 bit... (windows XP 64 went gold recently)

IT's something to do with a program you installed, I remember getting this error before, but not exactly why or how I solved it - sorry) Try to remember what you installed before this started happening, of if you have syste restore turned on, go back to before this started. Also if you could do a ctrl-alt-del and bring up the task manager - process tab - it may be starting some process when you log on that's cauing this and could be turned off. Go into msconfig startup tab and check to see what is starting when you log on. edit: Have you an ATI graphics card? I have a vague recollection it may have had something to do with the ATI start centre or confiuration utilite that's installed with the drivers.

How about 'play the game for me ' arrows. - you just start the game, shoot the arrow, and win the level automatically.

I agree with the nametages. I said it from the start that this is crap. You have to talk to Spring for that.

Putting them in red robes would start to make them too similar to priests, IMO. Oddity, the prelates are your babies, so you do whatever you think is best with them.

How about an earplug arrow...you aim for a guard's ear, and shoot it...then you can run and he won't hear anything (of course, if you get on his other side he'll start hearing you again)....

Ren, I checked with GW over at D3W, and he's said we can use any of the foliage models from his map that we like. There's at least one good-looking tree and a couple ground ferns. I don't know how to extract them though, so someone else will have to do that. Here's the link to the map download page: http://www.doom3world.org/phpbb2/viewtopic...der=asc&start=0

Bahaha, aww man. You guys should not of mentioned the whole belief that saving every 5 footsteps is cheating. Now i'm gonna feel really bad when I do it. I must confess that I tend to use the quicksave key pretty often, but that's only because it's available to me. If i were forced to (or at least given the option to, at the start of the game) vaule my save points, I'd feel much better about completing the level. This is important, especially in a 1 plyr game. At the same time, you don't want it to become annoying. Balance is everything yeah? Another thing I'm wondering is how hard do you think it would be to integrate an option for co-op missions into your editor? Is that adding a whole new element of difficulty, or is it fairly straight forward?