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Thanks for the incentive. Indeed, its a lot about the way to aproach the construction of the model, in subdivision modelers you have to have almost the opposite design aproach as in most technical ones, which are based on extruding accurate 2d shapes and then adding subsequent detail with extrude or boolean operations, everything done with reference to other geometry (hence the huge importance of robust, profuse snapping).

 

It blew me away to know you were able to model that sculptured object in a few hours! Amazing technique, and i was also fascinated with the window, which is exactly the type of modelling im looking to learn right now, a mix between organic shapes and regular ones, with geometric operations such as the air openings in the middle of it. Very interesting stuff!

 

Looking foward to the texturing section! Oh and by the way, clearly this needs its own topic, dont you think? ;)

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Thanks for the incentive. Indeed, its a lot about the way to aproach the construction of the model, in subdivision modelers you have to have almost the opposite design aproach as in most technical ones, which are based on extruding accurate 2d shapes and then adding subsequent detail with extrude or boolean operations, everything done with reference to other geometry (hence the huge importance of robust, profuse snapping).

 

I know exactly what you mean. I've got this friend of mine who's going for a degree in engineering, and I got to watch him play around with Solidworks for a little while. If he wanted to make a rectangle with a round hole in it, all he had to do was take a cylinder, run it through the rectangle, and then boolean subtract the shape. There wasn't any worrying about the underlying topology. You just hit a button, and it's done. In a subdivision modeller, you try to do a boolean operation on anything but the simplest of shapes, and you'll land yourself in a world of absolute pain.

 

But like I said before, playing around with edges, verts, and all that good stuff isn't really all that bad once you get used to it. Things might seem like a huge pain now, but later? You barely even think about it.

 

Got a question for you, though...why are you so dead set on using snaps? They come in handy on quite a few occasions, but it sounds like you're wanting to use them all the time. What exactly are you doing over?

 

Looking foward to the texturing section! Oh and by the way, clearly this needs its own topic, dont you think? ;)

 

What? A UV Mapping thread? Yeah, I could do that. Probably slap it up in the editors guild or something.

 

Oh, as for the tut itself...it's coming. Haven't had time to work on it these last few, but I've got a few days off starting tomorrow. Barring any unforeseen circumstances (which always seem to come up, unfortunately), I should have part 1 done by tomorrow evening.

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Actually I was referring to techincal modelers mostly, they are the ones where precision is a must, and though Im really used to that, Im also trying to explore the free form, "more or less" modeling process in subdivision. A lot of a precise design workflow can be simulated by things like working with a grid, simmetry, arrays, etc. It would be cool to be able to use 3d more as a sketching proccess in the future, but I digress...

 

Is your modeler of choice Modo, by the way?

 

PS: I was thinking more about creating your own Blender tutorial topic where you could post your proccess instead of here - the conversation kind of carried on here, but it would be easier for people to find the tutorial if it had its own forum topic. ;)

Edited by RPGista
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A UV Mapping tutorial was my original suggestion when you started the thread asked in post #51 on page 3.

Edited by demagogue

What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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Im curious wether this will be a more generic intro like the previous modeling run down, or a hands on example (maybe texture a cornice or window?).

Edited by RPGista
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A UV Mapping tutorial was my original suggestion when you started the thread asked in post #51 on page 3.

 

And thus I say to you: ASK AND YE SHALL RECEIVE...at some indeterminate point in the future. :P

 

Im curious wether this will be a more generic intro like the previous modeling run down, or a hands on example (maybe texture a cornice or window?).

 

A bit of in between starting out. More generic than specific, but I plan on getting more detailed the farther I go. I'll give you a rundown of the current plan.

 

Part one (which I'm working on as we speak) is just "here's a cube with inverted normals. Make three materials, unwrap each face of your cube individually, apply the materials to them, stretch out the cube to a rectangle, then readjust your UVs so the textures aren't stretched anymore. Congratulations! Cheap ass room". I figured this would be a good way to start, as it's a decent way to introduce people to UVing, and isn't vastly different to how you'd apply a texture to a surface in DR.

 

Part two is making texture sheets, where you'll unwrapping a rectangular room, and lay all your surfaces down on said sheet. Basically not much different than part one, but now you'll only be using one material to cover the entire room instead of three. It's a good intro to how you'll be UVing 99% of the time, and also works as a pretty good primer for modular modelling.

 

Part three is The Jug. It'll show you the fun of unwrapping more organic shapes, applying edge seams, and fixing the goofy errors that usually arise when you unwrap a curvy object.

 

Part four, which I've just now decided to add after reading your post, is unwrapping a complicated wall section. This'll include a window, with sharp 90 degree angles, and a wall with trim and cornices.

 

Part five, which was originally part four, is an entire room where every section has it's own unique texture space. It'll probably take two sheets to do, and will involve baking in AO and all that other good stuff.

 

For the time being, this is the master plan for the UV tutorial. I think I can get parts 1-4 done pretty quick, but with part 5, I'll have to make the entire room beforehand so I'll have something to work towards. This'll probably take me a little bit.

 

Actually I was referring to techincal modelers mostly, they are the ones where precision is a must, and though Im really used to that, Im also trying to explore the free form, "more or less" modeling process in subdivision. A lot of a precise design workflow can be simulated by things like working with a grid, simmetry, arrays, etc. It would be cool to be able to use 3d more as a sketching proccess in the future, but I digress...

 

You can kinda do that now with Bsurfaces, which is basically glorified spline modelling that doesn't need whole tons of reference points to make good looking patches. Look up spline modelling and patch conversion. Play around with it a bit, then look at Bsurfaces. You'll probably like what you see.

 

Is your modeler of choice Modo, by the way?

 

Yup. I'm getting better with Blender, but there's still a ton of stuff I don't know how to do there I can do in 10 seconds in Modo. Plus I still find myself preferring overall. That isn't to say Blender sucks in comparison. With these recent updates, I'd almost say it could hold its own against the big expensive programs quite well. It's just that I find everything (this is gonna sound corny) flows better in Modo. Like it gives you a little more fine grained control, a little more room to tweak to get you exactly what you want. You could chalk this up to familiarity, though.

 

I was thinking more about creating your own Blender tutorial topic where you could post your proccess instead of here - the conversation kind of carried on here, but it would be easier for people to find the tutorial if it had its own forum topic.

 

Yeah, I've been thinking about doing that. It's just that...you know...I'm lazy. That's a bunch of extra talking and all.

 

I'll see about firing one up once I'm a couple of sections into the UVing tuts. :P

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UVs & U: Part 1

 

I wanted to save it until Nosslak checks out the updated bits and pieces, but I'm running out of time, and will probably be busy until Saturday at the very least. Just keep in mind that there are a couple of things that need to be changed and I probably need to do a couple of cleanups-expansions, but overall, it's done.

 

Enjoy it! I'll try to have it 100% finished as soon as I can.

 

edit: how is it that a tutorial I've kept hidden on the wiki for 4 days has 38 views already?

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Fantastic work yet again, I barely have any free time these days but I still had to try this one out and things are going smoothly... Its a pity I wont be able to go any further today but it just seems like a brilliant little tutorial so far; the fact that you decided to bring the uving to something similar to Dark Radiant style of texturing is a really nice touch! I personally like the textures used which is also a kind of silly but important factor to actually want to get it done; sober, useful materials true to the theme and visuals of the mod.

 

I really like the sound of your master plan, you seem to have a great grasp of what a complete idiot (like me) trying to start modeling with some focused information would need; if I can get all of this, I plan on working on a map model with emphasis on architecture, which I think could be fun and also useful for me in general. Work is in the way though, so I have to take it easy. ;)

 

Im particularly interested in getting to know a bit about the process of making that complex room for part 5 of the tecturing tutorial, if you could include some of that work in the tutorial itself, that could be really useful I think. I know that you also plan on making a tutorial for the actual modeling proccess later, so if it is included there, then of course, dont worry about it, I can definetly wait, no need to work two times on something similiar.

 

Modo does have a very nice mechanics to control each and every little action in detail, graphically too, so I can see why you would miss that. Its one of the features I most like about it, how you can just use a tool, and then confortably tweak it perfection, with accuracy, before applying the change. That is a must for me, and a problem when learning Blender (but I'll get there!).

 

Thinking of Splines, have you ever heard of T-splines for Rhino, its one of the tools Im experimenting with right now, if you ever modeled with hard surface nurbs, you'll know this thing is amazing; might look like smooth polygon meshes mechanics, but when applied to nurbs, you get a lot of control and power...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kYdmBfmh4M

 

Anyway, going off topic - keep up the great work, I'm really interested in this and Im sure many more will be too!

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Fantastic work yet again, I barely have any free time these days but I still had to try this one out and things are going smoothly... Its a pity I wont be able to go any further today but it just seems like a brilliant little tutorial so far; the fact that you decided to bring the uving to something similar to Dark Radiant style of texturing is a really nice touch! I personally like the textures used which is also a kind of silly but important factor to actually want to get it done; sober, useful materials true to the theme and visuals of the mod.

 

Trust me. If there's one thing I know only too well at the moment, it's a lack of time. If only there were 48 hours in a day, huh? Also, I gotta say I appreciate your appreciation of my rather arbitrary tastes in textures. You make it sound like I deeply considered which ones I chose to use, balancing the pros and cons of the myriad choices I had to see which were the best of the best, when in reality...

 

...yeah. I went with the first ones I saw that looked cool enough to use. Nothing really deep about it. I do like the way think, though. If I ever need a PR guy, you're it. :P

 

I really like the sound of your master plan, you seem to have a great grasp of what a complete idiot (like me) trying to start modeling with some focused information would need; if I can get all of this, I plan on working on a map model with emphasis on architecture, which I think could be fun and also useful for me in general. Work is in the way though, so I have to take it easy. ;)

 

Im particularly interested in getting to know a bit about the process of making that complex room for part 5 of the tecturing tutorial, if you could include some of that work in the tutorial itself, that could be really useful I think. I know that you also plan on making a tutorial for the actual modeling proccess later, so if it is included there, then of course, dont worry about it, I can definetly wait, no need to work two times on something similiar.

 

Yup. The work issue is something else I know well. As of writing, it's now 12:15 AM. I've been home roughly 45 minutes now (well, I did eat at Red Lobster before heading home, so it's not exactly like I'm suffering or anything...)

 

I know what you mean. I remember quite well what it was like when I was a complete idiot, when it seems like everything is overly complicated, obtuse as hell, weird, and difficult beyond necessity. I'm trying to write these tutorials in a way that would've helped me out back when I was getting started. Something that'll give everyone a good foundation to work from.

 

But there is one thing I remember reading awhile back that's very much the truth. Tutorials will only take you so far. You don't really begin getting decent until you start doing things yourself. Once you get to a certain point, I deeply suggest finding a picture of something you think looks cool, and try to model it. If it ends up being too weird and complicated to finish, so what? You did a little bit, which means you learned a little bit, which means you'll built something to work off of when you try it again.

 

Oh, and if I come across sounding like an Old Pro imparting wisdom over here, trust me...I'm not. I'd consider myself roughly in the middle of intermediately good here. I'm decent now, and can do quite a bit with ease I'd consider impossible not even that long ago. But I still have a good way to go before I think of myself as really, really good.

 

/wax off

 

Anyway, yeah. I'll throw in a goodly bit of architectural details once I get to Part 5. The whole point of it is to do an entire complicated room from start to finish. I might throw in a few straight modelling tuts before I get there to help flesh things out a bit, though. I'm still playing around with ideas on how to proceed with the later parts.

 

Modo does have a very nice mechanics to control each and every little action in detail, graphically too, so I can see why you would miss that. Its one of the features I most like about it, how you can just use a tool, and then confortably tweak it perfection, with accuracy, before applying the change. That is a must for me, and a problem when learning Blender (but I'll get there!).

 

I'm finding Blender to be a surprisingly slick tool (FYI half the reason why I'm writing these tutorials is because I want to learn it, I'm not totally altruistic here) But I will say it's a better modeller for people who already have some experience with it, as it's not the most immediately newbie friendly around. Not that of them really are, but Modo does make it a little easier than most, simply because of all the guides, and visual cues, and general overall smoothness of it all.

 

Thinking of Splines, have you ever heard of T-splines for Rhino, its one of the tools Im experimenting with right now, if you ever modeled with hard surface nurbs, you'll know this thing is amazing; might look like smooth polygon meshes mechanics, but when applied to nurbs, you get a lot of control and power...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kYdmBfmh4M

 

Anyway, going off topic - keep up the great work, I'm really interested in this and Im sure many more will be too!

 

Okay. I skimmed through it a bit, and...you know...really...it's not vastly different than modelling with subsurface divisions. I will admit it does make some things a little easier, and your starting points are a little different, but once it reaches a certain point, it's following about the same workflow. I'll use the bike seat at 1:40 on as an example.

 

This is the Rhino shot of the bike seat...

bike_Seat_Splines.jpg

 

And this is what I just did in Modo using the pen tool, edge extrudes, rotate, scale, and bridge...

bike_Seat.jpg

 

Can't tell any real difference between the two, can you? Even the process of making it was similar, where I grow out my edge, squeeze it in to define the slope. All that good stuff.

 

So how did I make it so smooth so quickly? Subsurfing! This is what it looks like when I go back to regular ole fashioned polygons...

Bike_Seat_LP.jpg

 

The biggest difference between the two (at least on the low end surface building) is that polygons look chunky and crappy at first, then turn smooth, while splines are always smooth and curvy.

 

Splines are appealing because of that. They instantly make everything look like they're high polygon. But really they aren't any easier than dealing with regular polygons (well, maybe a little...sometimes...it depends). You've still got control points that define your shape, and you have to subdivide to work in more detail. Anyway...yeah..I had a point here, but I'm so tired, I forgot it. I guess my advice is to not think one is vastly easier than the other. Each have their strengths, weaknesses, and incredibly steep ass learning curves.

 

Your best bet is to learn to do em both. :P

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Yep, Im trying to learn them at the same time, also learning BIM because I cant stand the sight of a cad program anymore... All in a very limited free time slot, so, yeah... :)

 

Thing about Rhino is that with tsplines and grasshopper, both plugins, it can come up with some amazing geometry - it is however a "dumb" app, you cant adjust things after they are done, there's no history, if you leave a gap or make a mistake, it couldnt care less. It does give you a lot of freedom, and thats enough for my purpouse (Im not a mechanical designer). Thats also something that attracts me to modeling oriented apps like hexagon and modo, they just go for it, unlike a program like 3D studio, say, with the whole stack system, and the absurdly complex UI.

 

Actually, better get some studying done! Thanks for all the tips, looking foward to more tutorials once you find the time! ;)

 

PS: Cool bike seat, you are pretty fast!

Edited by RPGista
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