Dave's Texture Contributions

[SneaksieDave]

Oh this is pretty rough wood. Probably like you'd see on a boarded up house or surrounding crates on a loading dock or perhaps a temporary fence.

 

first pack:

http://208.49.149.118/TheDarkMod/textures/...ave/sd_tex1.rar

 

the fixes:

http://208.49.149.118/thedarkmod/textures/...brick_fl_01.tga

http://208.49.149.118/thedarkmod/textures/.../brick_w_01.tga

http://208.49.149.118/thedarkmod/textures/.../brick_w_02.tga

 

the new, 06/16

http://208.49.149.118/thedarkmod/textures/061606/ceil_01.tga

http://208.49.149.118/thedarkmod/textures/...il_01_local.tga

 

the new, 06/19

http://208.49.149.118/thedarkmod/textures/...06/fancy_01.tga

http://208.49.149.118/thedarkmod/textures/...cy_01_local.tga

http://208.49.149.118/thedarkmod/textures/061906/wood_01.tga

http://208.49.149.118/thedarkmod/textures/...od_01_local.tga

 

I could also start zipping them up, but I thought this was more descriptive and convenient. If not, I'll just do that.

 

Just FYI: The ftp is set up to accept some DOS commands even, it seems (e.g., "dir" works). I'm not sure how much you might know or not know, so ignore this if you already do:

 

ftp 208.49.149.126

(user located in information forum),

(password located in information forum),

"cd" works fine to change dirs,

probably want to switch to binary mode with "bin",

and then just "get" each filename, one by one

 

I'm not sure why firefox would be giving the error it is.. perhaps this is the thing I think(?) PinkDot was talking about recently? Passive mode or something? Anyone?

 

Edit: ah damnit, such is the case when manually transcribing links. Fixed.

Argh third time. Fixed for real this time.

I hope.

[Gildoran]

Ok, I've added brick_fl_01 as stone/floor/brick_004.

 

For the brick walls, I think I can combine them to use the same diffuse map. Did you darken the bricks using a mask or alpha channel or something in your image editing application? Is there any chance you could provide that mask?

[SneaksieDave]

Edit: Oh, I think I get what you're saying, Gildoran. No, I made hue and lightness adjustments right on the original, sorry. I'll keep an eye out for any possible future color shifted textures.

 

On that note, I just uploaded 5 new textures to FTP:

http://208.49.149.118/thedarkmod/textures/...siedave/sd2.zip

 

The originals come from Dave Gurrea, one of the texture artists for Blade of Darkness. Here's the relevant portion of his email:

 

> > Basically, if your project is free, and nobody is

> > going to receive profits

> > from it, directly or indirectly (like subscriptions,

> > publicity, need to buy

> > other software etc.), you guys can use my textures

> > in it. Please note that

> > if somebody creates another game or version by using

> > your tools, the same

> > limitations apply.

> >

> > Sorry for the limitations, but I have good reasons

> > (personal and

> > professional) for it.

 

The limitations (standard fare, what he said here) can be found on his website. We should probably include a copy with the distribution. It might also be a good idea to append his initials on the names for these textures (labelled "dg" by me) to keep straight which came from him.

http://www.davegh.com/blade/davegh.htm

 

The normalmap relief for _stone4 was created in Photoshop by hand! I'm quite proud of it.

[Gildoran]

Ok, I've managed to construct my own alpha map and I've added the two brick wall textures, as stone/floor/brick_005 and stone/floor/brick_005_dark. However, I've done it slightly differently... instead of using two different diffuse-maps, I've modulated the lighter one to get the darker one. Could you take a look to ensure my version of the dark bricks looks close enough to your version? (I've checked, but I worry I might just be getting accustomed to any differences) I've also added stone/floor/brick_005_colored which allows the bricks to be tinged any color.

 

Since the DDS files have so far been tiny, would it be possible for you to try doubling the resolution of any future textures you send me? (I'd also be fine with 4x resolution, as I can resize the images down as necessary)

 

BTW, for the beautiful mosaic floor you did, did you intend for the user to scale it by 2 or by 4 relative to the default scale?

[SneaksieDave]

Looks good to me. :thumb:

 

Very weird, that. So in cam mode, we see the shared diffuse, but in render mode, some extra pass colors the texture? How do we use the colored one (say you wanted green bricks)?

 

Edit: Not sure what you mean about the tile floor. I haven't been considering scale too much yet, just working with what I have. Mostly just figured people will set it to whatever they need. Does it need size adjustments?

[Gildoran]

If you think it would be helpful, I could give the dark bricks their own editor image so that they appear darker when not in render mode... I tend to mostly use render mode, so I often don't notice if things don't look perfect outside of it. To make green bricks, you put the texture on an entity, then set its entity color to green (press k). You may need to move the entity before it updates the render view to show the new color. (I rather like the r/g/b color of 150/100/90) To be honest, after fiddling with it some, I'm not sure it would be that useful on bricks compared to something like carpet or wall-paper.

 

As for the scale of tile, I'm talking about the default scale of the textures when first put on a surface. To get a feel of what I mean, try loading up your original brick floor, then brick_004.

 

Regarding image sizes, if you could make any future images 1024x1024 instead of 512x512 that'd be great.

[SneaksieDave]

Editor image: whatever you think is best. I guess it would be helpful, but isn't essential.

Colored texture: Oh, like a func_static? What ramifications are there with using brushes that are entities (excluding that they can't be outside walls of the map)?

Scale: Right. I wasn't sure what to do with that really. It's hard to take an arbitrary brick photo from an arbitrary distance and figure how big it should be scaled to. I don't really know. I assume the square tile motifs (so the texture has 4X2) would probably be a foot or two across at most...?

Size: Okay, will keep resolution high where possible. I'll assume always scaling down to 1024 but never up to it (unless it's very close, like Dave Gurrea's tex's start at 1000X1000).

[Gildoran]

That reminds me of something else I just noticed... on the plaster texture, its dimensions aren't powers of 2. In the case of the plaster, it'll end up getting vertically shrunk to 512 pixels. Please ensure that all image's sizes are powers of two.

 

As for keeping straight who did what texture, I have comments in the material files of who created each texture. After reading the limitations for using Dave Gurrea's textures, I'm worried that TDM might not fulfill them. (for example I think it violates "This material can't be accessible out of your project, or included in a program library, a collection of textures, website, or any other way of distribution.") Could anybody else offer their opinions on this?

[SneaksieDave]

Sizes: several of them (probably half) don't fall along powers of 2... why is that bad? I have them in game and they look fine. I'm confused. :-\ For the plaster, that (or the normal map) might end up looking bad if you squeeze them down... I'm almost sure other ones (like the wood, tile, etc) will... please inform what I should do. If it really it necessary I can try to find reasonable "crush sizes."

 

DG's textures: the quoted text above is his email where he gave written clearance. I would assume, based on what I told him about the project and his reply, that he just means people can't download TDM, strip the textures out, and use them in a for-money game release. I could try to clarify with him if you guys want?

 

Edit: I've emailed David again.

[Gildoran]

Graphics cards only store images in sizes that are powers of 2. If you have a 300x900 pixel image, the graphics card will shrink it down to 256x512 resulting in lost image quality. A 1000x1000 pixel image will have the same quality as a 512x512 pixel image.

 

I suppose one could argue that it doesn't make any difference wether we shrink the image or the graphics card does. If we shrink it, we don't have to store as much stuff to be downloaded, but admittedly it probably wouldn't save much in most cases. The other thing is that sizes which aren't powers of two can be harder for mappers to fit into their map correctly, though depending on the texture that may not be a problem.

 

Hmm... as long as the image sizes are only slightly above a power of 2, the disadvantages may not be so great. Still, I'd like more time to think about and discuss it before adding non-power-of-two textures.

[SneaksieDave]

Oh I get you. So it's not a problem of display in game not being able to work with the dimensions, it's just how the card works with it, and it could lose quality as a result.

 

So what would you like to do? I'll take a look at the existing ones to assess the damage...

[SneaksieDave]

Happily, it doesn't look like there's much to do at all. About half a dozen of them need minor resizing. Whew.

 

Want me to handle it and upload the fixes, or do you want to avoid the download step?

[Gildoran]

That's a relief. Either way is fine with me. If you'd like more control over how things are resized/cropped, I'd be happy to re-download everything. Or if you like, I can just resize things to the nearest power of 2.

[SneaksieDave]

The five offending textures have been resized and uploaded:

 

http://208.49.149.118/thedarkmod/textures/.../size_fixed.rar

 

Included within (extra bloat!) are x1024-stretched versions of the 'wood' and 'fancy', so you can decide however you'd like to implement them, Gildoran. The wood one actually still looks good at those dimensions, but the fancy one is not so fortunate.

 

Hopefully this is the last of my newb growing pain adjustments. Living and learning. For the record, there should be 15 in total submitted so far.

[New Horizon]

Since we're switching to .dds, you can safely create all your textures at a max of 1024 x whatever.

[SneaksieDave]

Follow up email from David Gurrea:

 

Hi Dave,

 

Yes it's not a problem. this limitation is for avoid abusive uses, like

including my stuff in other websites for generate traffic, selling CDs

with

textures or the inclusion in any kind of software that people can use

for

make their own commercial video games.

 

As I said, whenever your project don't make any profits, I'm fine with

it,

and I assume the textures are going to be distributed with your

project.

[Gildoran]

Ok, that's great.

 

There's only one thing I'm slightly worried about... Since TDM will have something like GPL, doesn't that mean that it's legal for other people to sell it so long as they freely distribute the source-code? (I don't know the answer to this ... perhaps Sparhawk or somebody could answer?)

[SneaksieDave]

I'm sure we can provide a stipulation that if they were to do so, they must exclude DG's textures. By then, there will probably be hundreds more to choose from.

[sparhawk]

Ok, that's great.

 

There's only one thing I'm slightly worried about... Since TDM will have something like GPL, doesn't that mean that it's legal for other people to sell it so long as they freely distribute the source-code? (I don't know the answer to this ... perhaps Sparhawk or somebody could answer?)

 

Yes, that's right. They can sell it, but they still have to provide the source for it. Do you mean because of the textures?

 

Sneaksie, in that case we need a detailed list of textures that were from this site.

[SneaksieDave]

I've been uploading them to FTP so far as "dg_*" (for Dave Gurrea), and Gildoran says he's going to record that in the material file (correct me if I'm wrong, Gildoran). So we should have it covered.

[OrbWeaver]

The GPL is a source code licence, it doesn't really make sense for textures (what is the "source" of a texture? The Photoshop/Gimp original project?). It might be an idea to release the code under the GPL but use a different licence for the art resource, such as one of the many "artistic" licences or Creative Commons.

[sparhawk]

I don't think that such a licence would be a good idea. what we want to achieve is, that any asset, including code, that was contributed, has to be shared for TDM projects, but not neccessarily for others. That's up to the author. The code will go under GPL, as this was already defined as such and agreed to.

[Gildoran]

BTW, I've added plaster_w_01 as ceramic/wall/plaster_001 and tile_fl_01 as stone/floor/decorative_001.

[OrbWeaver]

I don't think that such a licence would be a good idea. what we want to achieve is, that any asset, including code, that was contributed, has to be shared for TDM projects, but not neccessarily for others.

 

I take it you are referring to contributions by FM authors who create and distribute Dark Mod missions, not the core mod code itself? Obviously with the core code being under the GPL there can be no restriction on using it for something non-TDM-related.

[sparhawk]

Yeah. I was takling about the FM makers. What I want to prevent is this scenario that I already had a discussion with an animator. He wanted that nobody uses his animations except people who have his written permission. This is inacceptible to me for several reasons:

1) Since I spend a lot of time doing this for free, I expect the same from others who want to use it. They don't have to create content, but if they do, then the should give us the same curtesy as we did. Coming and claiming that you spent *gasp* 20 *gasp* hours of work to get one animation right and this should be reason enough that anybody has ask for permission is ridicoulous in the face of spending several years creating this.

2) If you have to ask for permission, than you can spend a lot of time hunting down who created this particular model, texture, sound etc. and finding his current email. This time is better spent creating FMs, not hunting for patent like dcoumentation.

3) Doom 3 maps are open formats by nature, so preventing some reuse would be virtually impossible anyway.

4) We want to build a library of assets FM makers can draw on, not isolated FMs where everybody has to start virtually from scratch.