Doors Measurements

[New Horizon]

I wouldn't be surprised if the cylinder would allow the AI to pass safely through the doorways.

[SneaksieDave]

And when turned at 45 degrees... egads that would be bad if any 45 degree angled door couldn't be traversed or had to be wider, because of some stupid ginormous box which also stays axis aligned.

 

The fact that we've heard no programmer feedback on this yet however is not terribly comforting.

[New Horizon]

The fact that we've heard no programmer feedback on this yet however is not terribly comforting.

 

I'm not too worried. The fact that it exists for the player model is a good sign that we should be able to get it working for the AI. I was hunting around and saw a quake 4 multiplayer mod that gave all the players cylindrical boxes. I tried to download it, but the link was dead. So it must be possible.

[New Horizon]

...although, it will be comforting when somebody does get a chance to look at it.

[New Horizon]

Got this from a guy at doom3world. Hope it helps you coders out.

 

 

It's certainly possible, but you would have to modify the SDK a little bit. I would start by looking at idPlayer::SetClipModel and idAI::Spawn, as the relevant code for setting to clip model is found there.

 

*Edit*

Okay to be a bit more specific the following code in idPlayer::SetClipModel seems to utilize the pm_usecylinder cvar.

 

idClipModel *newClip;
if ( pm_usecylinder.GetBool() ) {
	newClip = new idClipModel( idTraceModel( bounds, 8 ) );
	newClip->Translate( physicsObj.PlayerGetOrigin() );
	physicsObj.SetClipModel( newClip, 1.0f );
} else {
	newClip = new idClipModel( idTraceModel( bounds ) );
	newClip->Translate( physicsObj.PlayerGetOrigin() );
	physicsObj.SetClipModel( newClip, 1.0f );
}

 

and in idAI::spawn we have:

physicsObj.SetClipModel( new idClipModel( GetPhysics()->GetClipModel() ), 1.0f );

 

So to get AI chars to use a cylinder clip model you would have to modify idAI::spawn to resemble the code in idPlayer::SetClipModel. Hope that helps.

 

Could one of our fine coders check this out and see if it's really this easy?

[SneaksieDave]

From his description, it sure sounds like it is, and he's sure of it. Damn. It's scary to think that there may be a number of things we falter over or aren't sure about or aren't doing quite right, because we're ignorant of the abilities of the engine. It's a shame this community is divided by so many games today. Back in the time of Doom, it was all anyone had to focus on, and every single possible trick was exposed.

 

But if this works, that's one of the single biggest concerns addressed.

[New Horizon]

Now we just have to lasso one of our coders, and get them to test this out.

[Dram]

I'll post a link to this thread in the programming forum to give them a heads up.

[Domarius]

Well, encasing the model tighter is something we can already do though. We can quite easily shrink the bounding boxes to a smaller cube. The problem is that the bounding box determines how close an AI can get to things, so if the box is smaller than the AI, then they will clip into objects or walls. A cylindrical bounding box is superior to a square for at least a couple reasons I can think of, but parts of the AI that go outside that cylindar will still clip through things, won't they?

Yes but it will be a better fit, and with a box, you get a better or worse fit for clipping and pathfinding depending on what angle the box is on. With a cylinder you won't have this problem because its the same distance from the center no mater what angle its on. (I'm talking about the angle along the Y axis of course).

[Tels]

(snip)

attack anyway, despite how narrow the hallway is. "Pardon, Thief, would you mind walking down the hall a bit to the room at the end? I cannot swing my arm at you here."

 

I know I shouldn't unearth posts from last year, but excuse me from catching up

 

This scenario is actually quite realistic, as many(all?) old castles in Europe have spiral stairs going upstairs in a clockwise manner - apparently to fend of right-handed attackers who are at an disadvantage because their weapon collides with the central spire, while the defender has a clear way to swing down. (assuming the attackers enter at ground floor and fight their way up, of course. Downstairs it would go in the other direction)

 

One example was Burg Elzt, a nice castle that someone (*cough*) could someday make into a map:

 

http://www.pbase.com/sandpiper/burg_eltz

 

All the best,

 

Tels

[SneaksieDave]

Is that right? Very interesting, and yet another example among many of all of the thought that went into defense in old fortresses. Good pics, too. It amuses me how much framing and the mind plays into what you see in a photo. All of the pictures I've ever seen of Burg Eltz have made it look like it was atop a precarious narrow point of a mountain, but these ones demonstrate that it's actually quite near surrounding lands.

 

Same with Neuschwanstein -- every photo I'd ever seen showed it in the clouds, atop an impossibly high mountain with no equal, a true fairy tale castle in the sky. Until recently, I saw it for the first time from the angle opposite to the one it's usually shot from, which reveals those other pics are probably taken from a mountain right behind it, which actually rises quite higher than it. Oops! Sorry if that spoils it for anyone else!

[Dram]

Same with Neuschwanstein -- every photo I'd ever seen showed it in the clouds, atop an impossibly high mountain with no equal, a true fairy tale castle in the sky. Until recently, I saw it for the first time from the angle opposite to the one it's usually shot from, which reveals those other pics are probably taken from a mountain right behind it, which actually rises quite higher than it. Oops! Sorry if that spoils it for anyone else!

 

Speaking of Neuschwanstein, I was mapping that out a while back. Should still have the map somewhere. Might be worth digging up and working on, though most of it was mapped out as caulk only at the time.

[SneaksieDave]

*drool* Have you visited there? (thus potentially giving even more droolage to the map)

[Dram]

*drool* Have you visited there? (thus potentially giving even more droolage to the map)

 

Unfortunately not, but I used a floorplan of it. It would basically be a thief version of it.

 

I'm hoping I still have it backed up somewhere, because that floorplan was quite good to follow. It would also be the next map I'd make, a nice castle. If I do find it I'll fix the missing models/textures and do a bit of work on it/check if it's still useable. Fingers crossed.

[Tels]

Is that right? Very interesting, and yet another example among many of all of the thought that went into defense in old fortresses.

 

Thats what the tour guides at Burg Elz tell you, so I am not sure. (Google didn't help much)

 

Sometimes the tour guides really tell stories that are soo interesting. Reading some historical books or archelogical journals then points out how far wrong their stories were.

 

But you can bet whoever designed the castle defenses back then was *not* stupid

 

Good pics, too. It amuses me how much framing and the mind plays into what you see in a photo. All of the pictures I've ever seen of Burg Eltz have made it look like it was atop a precarious narrow point of a mountain, but these ones demonstrate that it's actually quite near surrounding lands.

 

I think it is about 20m down from the castle ground to the riverbed going round it, but the area it stands on is quite small.

 

Hm. I really should go again to Elz and buy the book and start mapping it. It would be awesome...

 

Same with Neuschwanstein -- every photo I'd ever seen showed it in the clouds, atop an impossibly high mountain with no equal, a true fairy tale castle in the sky. Until recently, I saw it for the first time from the angle opposite to the one it's usually shot from, which reveals those other pics are probably taken from a mountain right behind it, which actually rises quite higher than it. Oops! Sorry if that spoils it for anyone else!

 

Hehe, yeah I was shocked when I drove below the castle and saw it from there

 

all the best,

 

Tels

[Tels]

Thats what the tour guides at Burg Elz tell you, so I am not sure. (Google didn't help much)

 

Sometimes the tour guides really tell stories that are soo interesting. Reading some historical books or archelogical journals then points out how far wrong their stories were.

 

Btw, in another small castle they had original driveway going up (over steep rocks!) and a very wide door, so the owner and visitors could just ride up there and "park" their horses next to the smith.

 

(I nearly broke my leg just walking up that way...)

 

Later then made the doors much much smaller to be able to defend the castle better, but when you come there for the first time you think: "Oh stupid, some modern idiot cemented the doors in" only to hear later that happened already a few hundred years ago

 

Tels

[Tels]

Burg Elz on google maps:

 

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&...p;z=17&om=1