Petike the Taffer
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Posts posted by Petike the Taffer
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23 hours ago, Goldwell said:
I cleaned it up a little bit by trimming out some of the audible mouth clicks and applying a removal filter on the background noise. What do you guys think?
Goldwell, thank you !
I got all caught up in the conversation with the other Peter and didn't even notice your post. Apologies !
Personally, I think the edit you've made is really good. I pressed my headphones against my ears (mind you, these are big ear-covering, sound-isolating ones, nothing tinny) and listened carefully for about a minute. I didn't hear any background noise or hum, certainly nothing audible to the human ear (and I have very sharp hearing). So I'd say that's a success, on the technical front.
We can quibble whether the performance in that test recording fits what we're going for with this voice file, but that's something easily remedied, compared to any recording issues that we needed to sort out first.
Goldwell, would you be interested in providing some VA direction feedback, in your spare time ?
I can send you the contact info on Shadow Creepr next week, once she's back. Just so I don't have to serve as an intermediary (slowing down things too much) and you could also provide some direct feedback on the performance, if you'd like to. As much as I want to get this done, the other Peter's guessed correctly I want this to be up to the quality standards of the male vocal set.
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1 hour ago, peter_spy said:
As you've already seen, ideas like Kurshok's musings and a "let's you people do it" approach have the least chance of fruition, unfortunately.
I have some technical experience in recording (dialogue, field recording, etc.), but I barely have time for modeling right now, sorry
Precisely why I started this particular effort in the first place, or contributed my translation already a while back. I am never too cocky to think other people have the time and patience to work on everything, with others just staring at the sidelines, cheering on or making unrealistic demands. I know all too well we have a lack of manpower, so thinking anyone will find the time to work on something when they're already swamped with other aspects of the project is a bit too presumptuous. Hence taking matters into one's own hands, provided the core team also does some feedback and quality control.
As for modelling, what do you mean ? I only asked if there'd be interest to help out with editing the recordings, and above all, help by providing supervision and strict feedback ("I'm sorry, that's not acceptable quality-wise, redo it", etc.). I myself feel supervision and feedback are the most valuable of all.
Concerning sound editing of the raw material, I could do that on my own, easily, but maybe I wouldn't be that good at noise reduction or some of you guys have better software for the task. I mean, sure, there are pretty good open-source offers like Audacity, but I'm not so sure noise-reduction or hum-reduction is that perfect in those, so I'll gladly defer to the core team's judgement of what is best.
Anyway, Shadow Creepr has been informed about the necessary changes to the recording process - what has worked and what we still need her to modify. She'll be getting back to it next week, once she's back home, as she'll be away for the rest of this week.
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2 hours ago, peter_spy said:
Yes. Ogg is a lossy format, the compression should be done once, on the final result. If she's doing just the recording, she should send .wav files for further processing.
Since you took the initiative, you should have at least some minimum knowledge about audio processing techniques, and be the defacto "audio producer" here. Or, someone from TDM Team who knows their stuff should take over. The enthusiasm and rallying the people feels nice and all, but ultimately someone with knowledge, tools, and skills has to do all the work.
Oh, I'm very open to supervision, it's just that I didn't want to make too much noise before things got really going.
I'll definitely relay the advice given here over to the voice actor. And as I've said above, comments and criticisms on all versions of the recordings are very welcome. If it's going to be part of the core game, we do need to engage in plenty of quality control, but that's been clear from the outset.
What I'm personally more bothered by is a lack of communication. Maybe I'm misremembering, but there's no real central thread where we can state "hey, core devs, we'd like to help with this unresolved asset stuff and seriously need your feedback". That makes working on side-projects like this feel really discouraging. On the one hand, it's true that contirbutors to TDM need to work mostly independently, and I approve of that. Unfortunately, what I also find flawed about this approach, is that the feedback from the core team is often lagging behind. With FMs, the oversight/feedback process is at least a lot more streamlined, set in its place, experienced. But when you want to work on a project that finally does some new asset contributions to the core game, it often gets stuck on lack of adequate feedback. Either to the point of not knowing how to proceed, or just ditching the whole thing, because there's some misunderstanding.
Concerning the cooperation with SC, if contact details are needed, I can always provide them. I'll provide them gladly, far be it for me to be the only intermediary around for this stuff. Pete, do you want to help out with this ? Not full-time, you have your own stuff, but if you had a little time to spare.
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5 hours ago, peter_spy said:
No, she should record in wav. Final version (corrected, postprocessed, etc.) can be exported to ogg.
She can just record each file with leading 1-2 second "silence" (room tone), that will be enough to sample even in free software like Audacity.
IMO the bigger problem is that all these files don't sound like mantling, at least in comparison to the male version. It's sounds like she's sick and she's clearing her throat.
Fair enough, though are you sure about the .wav ? I'll tell her about the necessary changes. I just want to be sure that there's consensus on the team, rather than every other person telling me something completely different and creating a misunderstanding. The last thing I want it one of the veteran devs coming her and telling me either me or you got the technical aspects wrong.
I like the idea about starting out with a two second silence and equalising the rest of the recording in post, if needed. I think you made a good call.
I'll try to provide more vocal direction, if possible. Since these have been all recorded as tests, I wasn't too keen on stressing "you've got to do it exactly this way or that way", as discussing the recording quality with you guys was my main priority.
Namesake, if you and others have some feedback on the content of the vocals, feel free to provide it. SC's been very willing to help out with this and I'm sure if we give her a clearer idea on recordings that we don't think quite fit, we'll eventually get the results we need. This whole thing is a process, after all.
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14 hours ago, stgatilov said:
I tried it just now, and got the same error. Thanks for writing about it.
The server is being worked on, so stuff may go up and down. Please be patient
Thank you for confirming it isn't just me. It's been this way for me since Sunday evening.
And yes, I am patient.
If I wasn't, I'd never get my side-projects for TDM done.
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3 hours ago, Springheel said:
It's a lot better, but you can still hear it. Close your eyes and see if you can tell when the file stops playing.
I was worried this would still be present.
2 hours ago, New Horizon said:I'm confident I could remove the hum. Just need a sample of the room audio to capture the hum, then use that sample to only filter the hum out. I did that with all my recordings back in the day.
Well, that certainly gives some level of hope. Should I tell her to record a sample of the room audio from the room she uses for recording ? (There's enough time, she'll be away between the 21st and 25th, so no rush.)
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Could someone please take a look at the TDM wiki ?
Since this weekend, it has become uneditable. I even changed my password and everything, just to be sure it isn't a technical problem on my side. No such luck. Every single attempt to edit the wiki yields a database error. Have others tried to edit it in the last few days ?
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@Springheel, @Goldwell, @New Horizon
Prompt feedback from Shadow Creepr, concerning the hum issue.
The new .ogg recording below should be without the hum. I've put my headphones volume to max, pressed my headphones to my ears tightly, listened to yesterday's recordings and this new one repeatedly for several minutes. It does seem she got rid of the background hum, but I'd prefer if others besides me checked on this as well.
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2 minutes ago, Springheel said:
There appears to be a clearly audible hum in all three recordings...?
Yeah. I've checked them again, and there is a bit of a hum I didn't notice at first hearing. Damn. I'll try to ask her whether she can do something with noise removal. Do you think a screen would be enough, provided she has a good enough (i.e. professional recording) mic ?
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The .ogg recordings.
From what I dug up in the male player vocals folder, all files were in .ogg. I suppose this means she can continue her recordings in .ogg ?
P.S. Unfortunately, I can't upload the third .wav, I've hit the attachment size limit. I'm betting you guys want the more space-saving .ogg versions anyway, so that one .wav file just sounds like what it does in the .ogg below.
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@Springheel, @Goldwell, @New Horizon and other core team members (not sure who's in charge of evaluating and approving new vocal sets).
Shadow Creepr has sent me some sample recordings. They're available in the attachments below (the first two in this post, both .wav, the .ogg ones in the following post). The samples I've been sent have been female mantling voice files.
She has also asked whether we need the voice files purely in .ogg or in .wav, or both. I wasn't able to answer for sure, so I'd like to ask you as well, as an intermediary in this whole effort. The three recordings are available below in both .wav and .ogg formats, as a showcase.To quote her e-mail, in full:
QuoteHere are some of the voices files. The one thing I forgot to ask is which format you wanted so I am sending both the ogg and wav recordings. Let me know your preference, please. I am using the same file names but with an added F (for female) and on the ogg files I added ogg to the name so I could keep them separate in my folder but depending on your preference I can remove it. The wav files are as is with only the added F. If these are not to your liking in quality or sound then let me know so I can alter them.-
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Funny, I thought just a few days ago I could take a stab at this character.
NeonsStyle has dibs on it, though. The more variety in voices, the better !
If I may, though: @NeonsStyle, would you mind if I collaborated on the script for the character ? You do the ideas and the voice acting, I can offer feedback and write down the vocal script based on the master template we have from Springheel. Tell me if you'd be interested in such a collaboration. Thanks !
@Melan I've always loved this idea for a new vocal script.
One of the top not-yet-made ideas for TDM, along with the Pagan VS-s.
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Documentation for the Hidden Hands series and this mission added to the wiki.
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8 hours ago, gokudo said:
Definitely on the right track, but I personally feel that it sounds a bit too contemporary. I would think more along the lines between the intro music for this doco and Vangelis's Animoid Row Part 2 from Blade Runner. This is more bazaar/marketplace type stuff.
Well, those are good choices, but I'd consider those better as in-game background music. For music/ambient in the mission itself.
My choice above was deliberate, as that would be for the intro song (in the menu) or the credits song only (for those willing to modify them - some existing FMs have done so). This sort of mix of a traditional sound with a contemporary sound would be a homage to Thief's intro songs and credits songs (click the links to see what I mean). Tellingly, even TDM has this sort of credits song.
Obviously, electric guitar backed music within the "North African" mission itself would feel just as out of place as it would in a typical "European" mission for TDM. For an intro song in the menu, though, it would give the whole thing some added style.
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Not to resuscitate this so soon, but... You know how the original Thief games and even TDM have fairly rockin' intros and/or credit videos ? Well, if we ever do some North African themed missions, here's some music to consider:
Granted, it's Tuareg, rather than Moorish or Berber, but still a nice blend of traditional Maghrebi singing with some nice modern strummin',
Obviously, we couldn't use a copyrighted song, but something stylistically similar would fit with some of TDM's anachronistic musical themes.
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11 hours ago, peter_spy said:
Unfortunately, there's constant shortage of content creators. Ideas are nice and all, but don't expect anyone to jump in and start making stuff based on your suggestions anytime soon. Better learn how to make such content yourself
This is exactly why I've been collaborating with Epifire and more recently Shadow Creepr (bless their hearts, both) on getting some new content done for the core game. Nothing as grandiose as new AI, but still something that can add more variety for mission makers. And then there's my own missions... Pity I've never had enough time to really develop 3D skills.
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Minor update: Contacted Shadow Creepr. She's working on it in her free time, she'll be sending the files over to my e-mail in batches.
Hopefully her recordings will go well.
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9 hours ago, Kurshok said:
I wish I could come up with a witty retort or actual solution, but the first thing to come to mind is "i dunno lol".
Learn rigging and get to work on animating those AIs, young man.
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1 minute ago, Kurshok said:
So we technically only have 1 true race of beastmen, the chimp-like ones in Volta 2, and one potentially on the way, the Mantians.
Well, "potentially"... We have that one concept from Plutonia, and that one is years old. Do the math. The Volta 2 ones are the only ones available right now. I have to wonder whether they could be included in the core mod...
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2 hours ago, wesp5 said:
So is there a list of missions that already contain beastmen?
It's in the creatures article and also in the article with the fan missions overview.
Volta II: Cauldron of the Gods II definitely has those beastmen with the shortswords and javelins.
Marsh of Rahena has some weird creepy humanoids with glowing eyes, but those might be some form of undead or spirits.
2 hours ago, Kurshok said:Hot damn, I don't like to consider myself a furry, but that Mantian Huntress is thicc, I wanna clap them cheeks.
Don't get dirty, young man.
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To tell you the truth, these are actually all good questions. To digress a bit, in a fantasy setting I've been developing for a few years now, for a certain RPG project of my own - also inspired by Thief, among other sources - these were the sorts of questions I asked myself when designing the setting's more fantastical species. (There are both human variations in the setting, and animalistic humanoids.) One thing I liked to focus on was the relationship of each species with industry, technology and that nebulous word, "progress", as one of the things the setting has in common with Thief is an early industrial revolution vibe (or that of a premature industrial revolution, if you will).
Now, for The Dark Mod specifically, I think a lot of this depends on whether the beastfolk are like or unlike those of Thief, who were very much in league with the Pagans, or even their servants and footsoldiers, whathaveyou.
We already have a new version of the werebeast (a purely animal-like werewolf, basically) in the works, and it's fairly complete, though not really finished. My impression is that this big guy is meant to be used for missions occuring in the wilderness or in rural areas, and similar. My own impression of the werebeasts from everything released and discussed so far is that they're half-way between a genuine sapient race and an animal (in the sense of belchers, giant spiders, etc.). They don't really have any culture, tools, speech, anything, but they are intelligent creatures that can use their intelligence to dangerous ends.
One of Kingsal's more recent missions has a different species of beastmen, more human-like, intelligent and tool-using, sort of broadly similar to the monkeymen from the first Thief or the ratmen from the third one. They were underground cavern dwellers, living a scavenging and hunter-gatherer life. I thought they were pretty creepy, especially their eyes. You had a swordman version and a javelineer version (rather than an archer), so that gives a bit of variety in gameplay terms and also a bit of insight what their material culture is like. These guys are also the only ones to date that are voice-acted (and very clearly a homage to the aforementioned Thief inspirations, even in their style of speech).
A few years back, Plutonia visited the forums and suggested the concept of "mantians", mantis-like insectoid people that were a riff on Thief's bugbeasts (much like many of the creatures in TDM). I think it's a given these would be as unintelligible to humans in terms of language as the werebeasts, but otherwise, they'd probably be social and very intelligent. Plutonia's ideas for them seemed to hint at a social insect kind of society/civilisation, even though their real world inspiration (mantises) are mostly solitary creatures.
So, we already have two beastmen varieties at least, though one still largelly in development, and one proposed beastfolk variety that is purely at the visual concept stage, plus some general ideas about what they could be like.
You can read about these more closely in this article. Most of the beastfolk and monster concepts are largelly undeveloped at this point, due to the sheer amount of work you need with making new AI for the core game, even if they're bipeds (but not humanoids). We can of course think about this whole thing more deeply as part of general pre-production in this area. I'd even say you're right on the money that these things should be decided about now, early on, before we make more definitive concepts and start work on the various varieties of beastfolk. The game is at a stage when we can slowly begin to move towards incorporating more outlandish AI, the only issue being manpower. TDM never has enough manpower for asset creation, that's for sure.
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You don't need to care that much about games.
You only need to care about TDM.
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22 hours ago, Kurshok said:
I hope the community lasts as long as Team Fortress 2's.
It already has lasted longer. Some people have been part of the TDM community since the start, and that was over 15 years ago.
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On 11/10/2019 at 10:16 PM, OrbWeaver said:
To slightly expand on that point, a good quality microphone is essential, with a wide frequency response and no colouration of the sound. Basically the sort of full-size mic that you might see in a radio studio, not a cheap VoIP mic or a gaming headset.
It will be really noticeable if the vocals are recorded with a low-quality mic, once they get into the game. The audio might sound muffled, or particularly harsh around the sibilants ("S" sounds), and no amount of processing will fix it.
Exactly. Those barebones swan-neck VoIPs aren't really good for anything other than videochatting and similar.
Recently, I've bought myself a Samson Go Mic. While it's not recording studio grade, I've tested it and it's pretty awesome for such a relatively small, portable mic. While my test recordings had a very clear, crisp sound, without background noise, I plan to get a microphone screen for it, just to be on the safe side. Or maybe I'll even do a home-made one, it's not hard (cue nylon hose on a frame jokes).
Funny story: Years ago, I needed to do a lot of voice recording for a radio programme proof-of-concept me and a few friends were developing (a book review show). Unfortunately, at the time, I only had a digital dictaphone and a fairly old swan-neck VoIP, nothing really adequate. You wouldn't believe what I did. I took a small rectangular table, covered it on all sides with thick duvets, blankets and bedsheets, then put a small reading lamp inside (it was weirdly dark in there, LOL), grabbed my scripts and went inside. I shut the backside of the thing, turned on the light and started recording. Yes, really, I made myself an impromptu recording studio. It was hilarious, true, but surprisingly, the results weren't that bad. I fiddled with the dictaphone settings as best as I could, plugged in that crap VoIP mic, and started recording under this sound-tight table. I had very little background noise and no pop, though I still wouldn't call the sound 100 % crisp. (The quality was certainly nowhere near my brand new SGM.) But given the very primitive setup, I did better than I ever expected. I thought the result would be muddled, but it was a nice surprise.
Granted, I don't want to revisit that sort of setup, aside from jokey nostalgia, or if I felt it was absolutely necessary. Based on my recordings with my SGM over the weekend, right in front of my humming computer, and then listening to the recordings, I feel it's going to be all right. No need for overly weird escapades this time, at most I'll only need to add a screen.
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IT'S ALIVE!
in TDM Tech Support
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Yes, I have noticed. I'll finish the documentation for the newest FMs.