MirceaKitsune

Hmmm... that might be just a little bit tricky. Like I said the aim of my mod is to steer away from anything CC-BY-NC-SA, and break free from non-commercial dependencies. Obviously this means I will be writing all definitions from scratch, whereas the assets themselves will only be CC-BY-SA at most. Scripts should be okay since they're software and as that file describes, they're covered by the GPL license, which is what I plan to go with for my code too. Of course this is mostly a technical thing for my own conscience... I have no legal fears here, and concerns are mostly related to not disappointing the creators of TDM. In any case, it could mean that I might have to rewrite a few things in my version to be sure the defs and scripts are original. Then again, original is a tricky concept when it comes to code; If you say have the line "for(i = 1, i == 2, i += 1)" but another code has a line exactly like that, who's to say whether you copy-pasted it or it just happens to resemble something existent? Just something I'll need to be careful about in this case, though compared to other things it's lower on my list of exaggerated worries Anyway I'll be giving The Dark Mission a try soon, then maybe looking a bit at how it's structured and your code changes for inspiration. Still need to take time to think on what the best approach is, so I don't end up starting something that will never draw any interest and die off soon.

Sorry for the multiple posts in a row: There's a limit to how many images you can embed per post, so I made one explaining each character I'm planning to start with. I wonder if there's some way to automatically convert all Xonotic characters to TDM, by converting the weight groups of their existing rig... it will definitely take its fair amount of work in any case. I understand. Would it be alright in that case if I was to create a Git repository and upload the latest version of The Dark Mission to it in my suggested modular (non-FM) format? I didn't get around to trying it just yet, so I need to decide whether I will do that altogether... for now I'm only asking if that would be alright with you. As for licensing: Is every asset in the mod credited in a text file, with its license also clarified? Once again I'm sorry if I'm a little paranoid about such things, I just seek to do everything right And about branching out commercially: That is of course your decision if you'll be continuing a version of the mod separately... the one I'm making will always be FOSS though. Personally I wouldn't advice it for two reasons: One is that, although our mod(s) are composed of non-NC assets so legally it would be fine, TDM has a stronger non-commercial culture around it, which I'd like to respect at least as thanks to those who made TDM possible... even taking donations for creating FM's is frowned upon last I checked, and I will need to ask about some of those aspects later. The second is because like you said, FOSS is awesome, and the charm in such a project is precisely its openness... commercially there are already way better games available, and what I wish to do is offering something special to the open-source gaming community exclusively.

And of course I will also include the original Erebus / Nyx, for more diversity in the same style. Original thread and screenshots of that: http://forums.xonotic.org/showthread.php?tid=529

An additional sneak peak into my plans: One of the models I plan to include is my modification of the Erebus / Nyx player model from Xonotic, called Terminus. They are the only characters I'm planning to port myself for now, granted I worked with and am familiar in their regard... since they wear helmets I don't need to worry about the face rigging either. They will obviously be troopers of sorts, likely an advanced police force or army. Original thread and a few screenshots, showing both the male and female versions: http://forums.xonotic.org/showthread.php?tid=4464

I will gladly consider helping with that! Although at first, I want to be sure we're trying to achieve exactly the same thing. To quote the important parts from my post on that thread earlier: From what I've seen of your work at a quick glance, there are mainly three things I'm unsure about: You mentioned that your mod is itself a FM. What I'm trying to make will not be distributed as a FM, but instead a plugin for TDM that FM's are built on top of, installed by dropping a pk4 inside the root directory next to the stock ones. Are you planning to convert the new scripts and assets into something that works like that, and only leave the example mission as a FM? Hosting in places like Google Drive won't do long term, in my opinion we need a Git. I planed to have this on a Git repository, most likely Gitlab since they offer more space for free accounts than Github... on it the contents of the pk4 would be hosted, and contributions can be made as pull requests. If I create such a repo, and ideally make us both admins plus any trusted TDM developer interested in being one, would you consider keeping what you did so far on it? If so I can download the zip you linked and put it there, after I give it a try and think about the details. Are all of the assets explicitly freely licensed, without any CC-BY-NC-SA or CC-BY-ND ones? Can the new scripts also stay (L?)GPL like the rest of TDM's game code? I know that some mods offer their assets with an "you're free to use this how you want" disclaimer, but to be extra safe I only use explicitly licensed stuff in any serious project.

First of all, allow me to slap myself for having missed this thread for so long. I was just linked to it, and I sure as heck am interested in all of this! To bring everyone up to date on my own plans, in case they haven't seen my other threads on the matter: I've been planning for over an year to create a full mod for TDM, that introduces a high quality framework and asset pack for creating futuristic cyberpunk FM's, inspired by the look and feel of the first DeusEx game which I very much love. The plan is to achieve equal or greater quality to vanilla TDM, in terms of both quality and quantity. It will obviously be a huge amount of work, but since I plan to use freely licensed assets available on the internet most effort will be on conversion and porting. Here's my official planning and feedback thread with more details. Back to the project being discussed in this topic: I was not aware that something like this was already in the works until a few minutes ago. It definitely looks like it's trying to achieve the same goals as my initial plan, and doing quite remarkably so far! Since one such project will be difficult enough as it is, I'm definitely considering a combination between it and what freyk showed us so far. That will however depend on how compatible my idea is with what's being done here. Things to keep in mind about that: Just like vanilla TDM, I want my mod to ultimately be of AAA quality... meaning only high quality models with high-resolution textures are targeted. The mod must work on top of stock TDM, without in any way altering existing FM's but only adding new content which missions can choose to use. Also, unlike stock TDM, I don't want any non-commercial assets in the mod as I find them restrictive and less in the spirit of Free Open-Source Software... therefore nothing CC-BY-NC-SA or CC-BY-ND will be included. Lastly, the assets are aimed to represent a period in the near future, such as roughly the year 2050... I'll be focusing less on mundane bullet weapons or computers, and more on plasma guns or holographic displays, as well as the familiar idea of augmentations.

Thank you for the feedback and thoughts so far! I'll gladly give that thread a read as well, the experiment mentioned sounds pretty fascinating The thread already mentioned some of the texture packs I plan to use, such as philipk's works. I might use parts of it, depending on how much I feel each fits the environment I'm envisioning. Indeed, I wish to start with something small. Ideally just enough to get something people can experience, and let that attract even more users interested in further improving it (snowball effect). There does however need to be enough usable content to do something interesting: If I just replace the bow with a rifle or add a a robotic trooper in the current TDM, it will only look silly and off... it won't offer much idea of the final feel I'm aiming to achieve, but rather something among the lines of "cool I guess, someone managed to mod a robot into TDM". So I imagine there needs to be enough work done to create an original FM out of it, be it a small one... that alone will require quite a bit of content to have been done however. Regarding a distinct style: It should be kept in mind that while assets play a huge role, they don't always define the style, and instead the map itself does. My example map from Xonotic was indeed inspired by the Hell's Kitchen area in DeusEx, though it's an original location I came up with... in its case it's a more open map with only a few tighter areas, but every map can be more desolate or claustrophobic. We already see this with current FM's, where every mapper has a style of their own and every city feels completely different from any other, even if the textures and models are the same. In other words, the assets I plan to make the mod with don't guarantee a one unique feel, as that will depend on what each FM creator will do with them.

Yes: I remember there was a thing in the past where games for Steam had to be modified, in order to include functions for their proprietary libraries (for achievements, chat, etc). I hope we won't have to do this and add Steam stuff in TDM code... unless of course said functions are a common and open standard.

Making a mission to promote the mod before it happens is a paradox, since I don't have the assets to make it with But although this was kept a secret till now however, I have a FM in the works that uses the vanilla assets but takes place in the future instead... no idea when it will be finished I'm afraid, but I figured it's relevant enough to mention here. Also, regarding my short lived attempt at creating a city hub in Xonotic: I just remembered I still have videos of the map I made at the time! There is also a thread on the Xonotic forums where I posted more screenshots. What I did was obviously just a simple demo, but it strongly captures the mood and feel of what I hope to achieve... please take a look and let me know what you think! http://forums.xonotic.org/showthread.php?tid=2369 If this gets anywhere, I might in fact port this very map to TDM. DarkRadiant can open NetRadiant maps and vice-versa, so only the texturing and entities would have to be redone.

I've been wanting to post this topic for many months now. It's a continuation to ideas I posted a while back, regarding my wish to create a total conversion for TDM, adding a cyberpunk theme alongside the original steampunk world. The reason for making a new thread is that I have a plan laid out by now, but will need help from the community with it. I wish to know how many people would be willing to help out, so that I may know whether I should start laying out the foundation of this project. I will explain exactly what I plan to do in the form of a FAQ below, so that I can easily cover every aspect. This is going to be long, so make sure you have some time before diving into it! If you want to go straight to the points about what I require and skip the rest, read the titles in red which cover the essential paragraphs. What is this all about?The idea is in part inspired by one of the favorite games in my childhood, DeusEx - The Conspiracy. I used to spend weeks playing through it every few months, drawn by its adventurous story and its dark yet appealing environments. Since the last few years, it's been a dream of mine to create a FOSS cyberpunk stealth game with RPG elements, that would be entirely unique (similarly to how TDM is unique from Thief) yet have the same feel and atmosphere I loved about it (once again like TDM has the same atmosphere as Thief). My earliest thoughts were on trying to achieve this in Xonotic, which is a GPL licensed arena-type shooter I've been a long time contributor to. Of course I eventually abandoned the idea... mostly given that Xonotic has no features for single-player mechanics, such as saving / loading or any kind of AI except bots treated as real players. Then more than two years ago, I finally discovered The Dark Mod. After playing it for some time, I quickly realized it's by far my best option to making such a project come true. Why The Dark Mod, instead of building the game from scratch? It was designed to be a steampunk stealth game after all!The first reason why I want to use TDM as a basis is that it already has every crucial mechanic I need, in terms of AI and interaction and world programming. It does of course lack a lot of the features I ultimately hope to include, although most are optional and I could attempt scripting them at a later stage... for now little to no game code chances would be required. The most significant features are the AI (very advanced and intelligent), carefully balanced gameplay plus other common ideas, as well as the mapping system with its intelligent area portals. It should also be considered that while I'm usually a competent contributor, I'm terrible when it comes to programming something from the ground up, so there's no other way this could happen as a FOSS project unless I hire an entire team. The project aims to be a stealth game that works the same way after all, so why not? To exemplify what I mean: You can open DarkRadiant and build a medieval town with a tavern, then add a guard patrolling the tavern with a bow and a sword. In the conversion, you'll be able to build a futuristic city with a club, and have a guard patrol that club with a knife and a rifle. In both cases, the AI will do exactly the same things with equally correct results: The guards take the same patrol routes, chase after the player the same way, vocally alert one another in the same fashion, and search rooms and hiding spots as efficiently once the player disappears from view. There is no "medieval patrol style" versus "futuristic patrol style", the choices and decisions are exactly the same! The only considerable difference will be the assets and animations and settings. The second reason is that I'm a fan of the idTech engines as well as gtkRadiant based editors. idTech 4 is in fact one of my favorite engines in the line, due to how intuitively it was designed at its core and how much it pulled off during its day. Its only problem is that it hasn't had as many developers forking and modernizing it, unlike idTech 3 with say Daemon engine (for Unvanquished)... that is of course not its fault, and in part due to being open-sourced much more recently in comparison. How exactly would the mod work? Are you thinking of creating your own TDM fork?I don't plan to create an actual fork of TDM, which would be impossible to maintain on my own and only divide the community and its efforts. My plan is to create a mod that will run on top of vanilla TDM, adding new content without affecting any of the existing functionality. The mod would be distributed as one or many pk4 files, which are simply dropped into the main directory next to the stock pk4's! Its assets will be grouped under the mod's own name, so that they're always distinguishable from the normal ones... just like every default component is listed in a "thedarkmod" directory inside DarkRadiant, they would be listed in a "howeverthiswillbecalled" group. Once you have the pk4(s) of the mod inside your TDM installation, normally download any mission using them it in order to play it! So missions will be able to use entities and assets from both stock TDM and this mod?My plan is to allow that, and nothing should prevent maps with mixed assets. Keep in mind however that I ultimately want the mod to be independent, and encourage relevant missions to only use textures and entities included with it rather than a mix! If you take out every single stock TDM asset (excluding md5anim's which will be reused) the mod will be expected to work on its own. Will the new assets also be non-commercial?Unlike vanilla TDM, I don't wish to include any CC-*-NC and CC-*-ND assets with the mod. That's primarily because I find them limiting, and feel that they ruin the openness of the project. Is there a name for the mod yet?I've been thinking about it but haven't fully decided so far. I want it to be something familiar and related to TDM; Initially I wanted to call it The Dark Modern, but that sounds rather silly. The name I'm considering now is The Dark Machina, which retains familiarity with TDM and is also more theme relevant... further suggestions are appreciated. What is the benefit for the community? Why should anyone put any effort into this?The project is targeted to everyone in the TDM community who alongside a steampunk stealth game, would enjoy a cyberpunk stealth game of equal or greater visual fidelity... with exactly the same base gameplay and core functionality, but an entirely different world and atmosphere. The project will be publicly available on a Git repository of its own (most likely Gitlab), and anyone will be able to easily install it on top of vanilla TDM. Simply put: If you help and things go according to plan, you'll have a triple-A scifi game inspired by the look and feel of the DeusEx series, just as you currently have a triple-A game victorian game inspired by the look and feel of Thief. What do you need help with exactly? What would others have to do?Obviously I'm not asking others to do the work for me. But at the same time, it's not something I can just go ahead and do on my own either! For this reason I've come up with a plan, which would allow contributions to happen gradually whenever someone willing to dedicate their time to helping adds something new. This is mainly a call to existing TDM developers, who know best how to export and define new assets. If the project takes off, based on the answers I get in this thread, the starter plan is as follows: I will be creating two Git repositories. One will be the official repository of the mod, which will contain assets in working format and condition... the other will contain images, sounds, blend files, and other resources in their native format. This will include freely licensed assets I find on the internet, which I will hand pick and tweak to make sure they're in the readiest state possible, then sort them in a way that's easy to work with. Most will be taken from http://opengameart.org and http://www.blendswap.com and I'll likely use a few things from Xonotic altogether! The assets included in this repository are to be exported and / or converted to TDM compatible formats, then included in the real mod repository. A list will be maintained in order to keep track of which assets have already been ported. Every ported asset can be issued as a pull request, or sent to me personally in case the contributor doesn't have access to the Git service that will be used. The rigging, exporting, and conversion processes are what I require the community's help with! As far as models textures and sounds go, no new content will need to be created... I plan to use freely licensed resources which are already available and plenty, enough to create a full mod out of. Obviously I'll be doing some of the exporting and definition writing myself, but since there will be so much new content I can't do it all on my own... unless I dedicate every waking hour of my life to it for over an year, which would be more than I can handle TLDR: I'll be compiling a repository of game-ready assets, such as textures and models and sounds. Anyone who wishes to help is only asked to pick them up, adjust the TDM specific necessities (exporting to md5, creating material definitions, etc) and publicize the results for inclusion. So no new content is going to be needed?For the most part, no. There is only one exception to this rule: Voices. As they're something TDM specific, they have to be created to match the world and what's happening in it. They are however not a priority, and can happen at a later stage in the project. Until then we can live with a few cyborg troops saying things like "in the name of the Lord Builder, you shall go to the gallows, you heretic" Other than that, I will eventually want to add new functionality. Including a Minecraft type inventory system, computer chips the player can install into their suit or body in order to gain enhancements (modules / augmentations / whatever), and most importantly a re-implementation of the interactive touchscreens in Doom 3. Those are however even more distant needs in comparison, and not what this thread will focus on at this point... I plan to look into such once I'm sure there are enough contributors to be certain this is happening altogether. What do you need done for each type of asset explicitly?Here is a list of every new asset type the mod is going to introduce, and the steps I estimate to be required for each: Characters: I will be offering the blend files of all characters scheduled for inclusion. They will contain the mesh, textures, as well as the rig that the character comes with (if available). Steps to be taken include: Rigging the character to the TDM animation skeleton after using the original rig for initial posing (including face rigging), generating the shadow mesh, making sure polygon count is within acceptable limits, and finally exporting to md5. Lastly, generating and tweaking the character definitions (stats, team, social status, voice, etc) and the material definitions for the character's textures, which should be all that's needed for the model to become a working character. Notice: I'll be preparing a blend file containing the simplified / optimized TDM rig in order to ease the process, including the face rig which I remember had to be extracted from existing characters. Models: A similar process would be needed with static models and simple entities: They will be distributed as blend files which include the model and texture, and need to be exported to ase / lwo, with entity and material definitions in place. Textures: Most will likely be distributed as jpg and png, and will need to be converted to dds and tga. The material definitions will need to be created as usual. Sounds: Will be distributed as wav or ogg, which normally don't need to be converted. Sound definitions need to be created however.As far as specific TDM functions go, this is how I intend the modifications to work per component: Weapons: The plan is to keep each weapon the same in terms of purpose and functionality, and mainly modify the models animations and sounds. The same core code will therefore be used by each, but new entity definitions should be made in order to not affect maps using the existing items while the mod is installed. Menu: When a mission intended for the mod is installed, the main menu will use different textures and a different background song... no modifications to the entries or functionality will be made otherwise. I'm uncertain as to how this can be achieved, although it is lower on the priority list.What will be the modern equivalent of existing TDM items, as well as new content?Like I said, I plan to keep the functionality and purpose roughly the same, at least for a while. Therefore items will serve the same goals, and work almost exactly like the existing ones in TDM... it will be basically the names and appearances that change. The important replacements I currently have planned include: Weapons: Blackjack becomes Police Baton or Taser. Sword becomes Knife. Bow becomes Crossbow or Sniper (arrow types and behaviors unchanged). Items: Lantern becomes Flashlight or Keychain Light. Telescope becomes Binoculars. Compass remains Compass. Snake and Triangle lockpicks become Physical and Electronic lockpick (mechanical doors are unlocked with the first, electronic doors with the later). Potions become Medkits, Syringes, or special types of enhancements.As far as completely new content goes in regard to items and entities, here is a rough list so far: Books & Notes: Alongside the existing books and notes, laptops / smartphones / tablets will be added. They are unrelated to future plans for interactive screens, and simply refer to new types of visuals for readable items found throughout the world. Lighting: The replacement to existing candles and torches will mostly consist of desk lamps, particularly neon and LED based ones. Characters: A similar structure of factions will be followed, compared to the existing guards + thieves + civilians + beggars + nobles. In this case the main categories will be: Police (ideally different suits for various units), gang members (once again different clothing for each gang), with modern looking civilians of various classes. There will also be entirely new outfits covering jobs existent in modern times, such as scientists or industrial workers. Robots: The existing code behind the Steambot will be used to implement multiple kinds of security drones patrolling an area. Especially in early stages before new scripts are considered, they can have the same function of only sounding an alarm when the enemy is spotted. Props: There will be various modern props added throughout the world, depending on what content I find. This will include: Flaming barrels for poorer areas, futuristic cars and bikes parked on the sidewalks, televisions that play videos (in case itTech 4 allows video textures), and the list goes on.Closing thoughts:First of all, thank you for reading this enormous post, regardless of whether you wish to support the project or not. This is something I've dreamed of creating for a while now, and I really hope at least a few artists out there are willing to support it! Please leave your thoughts if you want, as well as voting on the pool so I can more easily estimate the help I may expect.

I really hope TDM won't have to exclusively depend on Steam's servers. I personally think Steam is nice because it makes TDM more accessible and boosts its publicity, but we still are a FOSS project with its own internal development system and servers. Just my thoughts... a mirror on Steam would be nice honestly, but please don't move all FM's there forever!

Sorry about that, missed it... a lot of posts were made all of a sudden and it threw me off. Found it and gladly voted!

Where did you vote? Because I looked on both threads again and even searched on Steam itself, and there is no link anywhere to be found (just a TDM group which I just joined).

Amazing how there are two threads about this, and none offers a single link as to where on Steam this is. Obviously because I want to vote for it and support this! That said, it comes as a surprise to see TDM on Steam. Granted it's usually known for commercial games, and not very frequented by Free & Open-Source Software. Considering TDM's non-commercial strictness, I further wouldn't have expected it... of course Steam allows free games to be hosted as well, so probably no biggie there.

This looks really great, thank you for the wonderful work! Can't wait to try these in 2.05 My main confusion was how much this is just models, and how much it's prefabs that also include brushes of full rooms. Considering the need to create area portals in between rooms, as well as entities like operable doors and windows, a single mesh for an entire interior might be tricky. I assume each piece is for filling one room in between a precise arrangement of brush walls, but I guess I will see.

Thank you! Looking very nice, indeed.

Oh... that sounds very interesting, and just what I was thinking about! Is there another thread with more info on how that set works, also any screenshots? And thanks again for making more awesome and helpful content

Randomly generated maps would be nice. Such as a DarkRadiant plugin that could have a list of prefabs for various sizes of buildings, and automatically place each in the right spot. I think I already posted some ideas on that long ago, but in any case that would likely be difficult to do for no guaranteed gain.

Definitely waiting to know about this as well! Also, if and when it happens, will it be compatible with OSVR? Since once I one day have the money for a VR headset, that's most likely what I'll want to get, over the proprietary Oculus / Vive / etc.

I don't wanna sound lazy or spoiled by asking this question: I enjoy mapping, and DarkRadiant helps in not making the process all that hard! At the same time though, it is a lengthy and straining process, so I figure knowing this wouldn't hurt either. After all, scripts and prefabs and other contributions are shared throughout the community, so why not map chunks? But yeah: My question was whether any TDM contributors also publish any complete large structures for other mappers to use. By this I mean full buildings (with interiors), playable base landscapes, maybe even whole towns! I'm thinking of generic area templates that mappers can easily add characters to for their story, in case someone doesn't want to create their map from scratch. For instance, a whole town map with all roads and buildings laid out, entities for paths and doors and all other things, just no objectives or stories or characters as you add those yourself. Another problem is that if people abuse such templates, too many missions will end up looking the sane, which would of course get easily boring. This might be helped if perhaps just important pieces could be offered as prefabs... for instance various types of complete buildings, but it's still the player who makes the roads and places each one in each spot. Has anyone ever made and posted such a thing, and what do you think of the idea? This isn't a request thread mind you, unless merely bringing this up inspires anyone to do it... I'm only asking if anyone else's thought of this before. The reason I think it's a fun thought is that some missions have a few really nice areas, which are definitely created by talented mappers... therefore I wonder if bits of maps could be shared in a way that makes them easy to combine with one another, so that other missions can reuse good parts if of course their authors want that.

Nice. How would I define that as properties on a given AI entity from DarkRadiant though? I'd really rather not create an entire new character definition just to add a sound.

It's one of the missions I played recently, so it's likely. I remember that, as I occasionally do in every TDM mission when I get bored, I threw some objects at AI's heads to start some trouble. The bard who was playing did stop singing, get up and walk around... then if I remember correctly, sat down again and started playing once he calmed down. I definitely wouldn't want to make the AI both immune to alerts let alone immortal, which would be a silly solution (how much the first DeusEx game suffered from using this approach ).

Thanks, I'll take a look at that. I don't remember the exact name of the mission, but it was a tavern and the singer was located in the upstairs area. I could use a speaker of course, but it needs to be properly triggered by the AI, else if you kill them or scare them off the music would keep playing. In the example I'm referring to, I did scare the lute player out of curiosity, and the music stopped the moment he got off the chair and restarted the moment he began playing again.

Running into another little problem: I added an AI in my tavern whom I want to be singing a song on the lute, as I've seen in a few other missions. I gave it the property "def_attach" "atdm:prop_playable_lute": The lute appears in its hand and the animation executes accordingly. However, there is no song playing! How do I define the music to be played while the AI is singing, and where do I find the sound definitions for that too? Yes: I'm referring to the volumetric haze seen under the lamp. I'm already using that light entity, but the haze doesn't seem to appear by default.

Works like a charm, thanks! Also some time ago, I mentioned looking for a fog light to add to my map... here's an example of what I'm trying to find: