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We've had this discussion already. Check out: http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showt...%20dagger&st=50

This question was asked in the Ion Storm forums a while back. I thought it might help us to conjure up more resources and spur more creativity... Source: http://forums.ionstorm.com/index.php?showt...ndpost&p=290033 The City is an amalgamation of times and places, both actual and fictional. Medieval & Victorian London and France, modern-day Prague, and even parts of Boston (home of the ghosts of Looking Glass) have been mentioned as real places that influenced the look & feel of the City. Some oft-cited art references are The City of Lost Children, The Hunchback of Notre Dame and The Name of the Rose. The works of Mike Mignola (Fafhrd / Mouser stuff), Tim Burton (Mr. Wrought Iron Himself), Jules Verne, Charles D-i-c-k-e-n-s, and Alan Moore / Eddie Campbell have also been mentioned a fair few times as influences. That's just a sampling, there are dozens of others .

Whoa, can we shrink that image down a bit? Images should be kept at a reasonable size on the forums...if they absolutely need to be bigger than 800x600, then we should use a link. The cathedral doesn't look bad, but that tower really looks familiar. Is it based on something? I originally thought of Orthanc, but I know it isn't the movie version.

hey guys. just checking back at the forum to let you guys know that i'm still here and awaiting directions. i've only started looking around the dark mod forums, but havent yet seen everything, ill continue on to see what resources / info is available. well, fingernail or whoever's in charge , when you have some work for me, just email. thanks . btwy, forums is an ok way to get informed, but what we really need is an irc channel.

Don't forget to look at the links, not just the pretty pictures (there is a limit on IMG tags in a post). Anyway, onwards: Weapon Models Bow Arrow (just broadhead for now) - figure 146, not 147. Short Sword Blackjack - you know what this looks like. I'd prefer less of a T3 club to more of a T2 style hard material thing. More coming....

Black cat have their own site, you don't need to go to the Thievery site. Check it: http://www.blackcatgames.com/ I think it is a better pointer than Thievery as TUT is one side of the Black Cat triad, and Alien Swarm did win Phase3 of the MSUR contest! In other news from my brain: I'm glad you guys have taking the line you have regarding copyright elements. The whole debacle with the Sapphire Scar is just disgusting. I can't believe they said it was disrespectful to use the SS2 name. Surely it is in homage. Twits. Beware the suits. Good luck.

If you want to stay free, use Blender (someone wrote an exporter for D3).... You could learn Lightwave and I'm sure it's great, but I think there has been an exporter written for 3DSMax also. Not sure though...check the D3W forums.

I think perhaps I'll have to pick up Blender to carry us over our lack of 3D team....that is, only one modeller. Adverts have gone on D3W, ttlg & polycount: any of you advertise on any other suitable forums too.

The face sketch is here: http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?act=S...3&st=0#entry796 I wasn't sure whether a side view was necessary...if you'd like one just let me know.

I placed a few sound samples from my keyboard over in the Art > Sound > Sound Effects/Music > "Sound Effects, Ambience, Music" thread. Please check out that post: http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?act=S...=findpost&p=779

Hmm, something does look familiar about it to me. Maybe it was only used in certain books or certain notes lying around? Here's the post I got it from: http://forums.ionstorm.com/index.php?showt...ndpost&p=355674

Doom 3 comes packaged with the level editor in the executable. All you have to do to access it is rightclick on the Doom 3 shortcut, click on properties, and add "com_allowConsole 1 +set r_fullscreen 0 +editor" in the target box after the quotation marks. But if you mean how we've made all the test maps, well...we've got lots of stuff down in the (currently?) hidden sections of the forums that go through it all step by step. It's a long process that'll probably bore the hell out of everyone not interested in the technical side of the mod. And yeah, the SDK will be free. As for the Garrett model...I think DeepOmega has been doing it in 3DSMax, not too sure though.

Hello, I offered my help on the coding side on the old forums. Until the SDK comes out, a lot of the stuff I'd like to get started on will have to wait. As a result, I was only periodically checking the old boards, and only just now saw the message regarding this move. I'm still more than willing to offer my help on the coding side. I'm mostly interested in helping with AI, and movement code (Mantling, run/walk/sneak/crouch modifications). I'm also willing to help anywhere else that requires it. Even Art. Sorry for not posting anything for a while, but until the SDK comes out, a large number of things are simply speculation at this point. -oofnish

Hi there guys! This is Jim from DoomCast.com. I've been talking to Fingernail and offered him hosting and some space on our forums! Just wanted to say hello and meet the people who are going to bring out this awsome thief mod! I still remember the first time I played thief, lol, getting chased around the first manor and scrambling up a rope to hide hahaha Hopefully this mod turns out great! Anyway, gtg Jim Doomcast

I'm not a part of the Dark Mod team actually, I can't code, do models or textures anyway. Kinda dedicated to Black Cat Games aswell... I'm just hosting the forums for Fingernail and the crew.

Don't apologise Phil Are you refering to the post you made about mods and Quake 3 being released under the GPL? If not, I have probably missed something and you can ignore the bit below ID have re-released the source code for Quake 3 and some of its other games (including the previous incarnations of Doom) as open source under the GPL - but only years after the games were originally released (Quake 3 was only GPLed a few weeks ago, after the release of Doom 3). While the titles are considered commercially viable they are distributed with a closed source license. It will be years before ID even consider releasing Doom 3 under the GPL. ID normally ask that fan made material is distributed freely and non commercially. Don't get me wrong. I'd encourage anyone to be as open with licensing and copyright as possible. I'm a linux user, a fan of the GPL and am contributing to open source projects. But the GPL is not the appropriate license for a Doom 3 mod, they are incompatible in a legal licensy kind of way.

Apologies, but from your post... ...It didn't sound like you're quite as sure as you need to be. The SDK is not open source (GTK Radiant is not open source, only the GTK bit is) and GPL is the wrong license to use because of the reasons I have outlined above, and also because you can not link to closed source libraries (such as the Doom 3 engine) under the terms of the GPL. GPL is a wonderfull thing, but is is not the appropriate license for a Doom 3 mod (I mean that in a legal - you will open your self to cease and dessist notices from ID and the free software foundation if you do - kind of way). Sparhawk is on to a good thing to request clarification of copyright issues, but choosing the right license license requires a little care and attention. Good work so far, by the way. I'm looking forward to contributing some stuff to the project

Ok, I'm not a team member but I had a looky and noticed that the thread was closed - which is a shame because some further clarification might be needed. I havn't read the terms and conditions yet, but as far as I know Doom 3 and Id's Doom3 SDK are not released under the GPL. Id only release their code as open source (quite a different thing from letting people play with the source code) several years after release and the shelf life of the product has expired. Neither is GPL a 'non commercial' or 'free' license, it just happens that a lot of free software uses GPL. Meeting the (fairly hefty) requirements of the GPL will almost certainly infringe Id's own copyright as you will be granting the right for anyone to distribute the code commercially (doh). And, just in case you havn't got the gist of this post yet, the GPL has been designed exclusively for the distrubtion of software code. It is next to useless for licensing creative content such as audio, textures, level designs and so on. The deeds offered by Creative Commons are much better suited for that kind of thing. In short. GPL is wholesome and good, but unless you specifically know otherwise, steer well clear. Id will probably mention terms and conditions for distributing Mods in one of their readme files.

great work man I hope I get D3 tomorrow in the computer store, where I buy my new computer components. If everything works fine I'll be able to play D3 on highest-details in 2 days BTW: as soon as you've got your ceiling we should post this screen in the ttlg-forums, I think people will be really impressed.

There's nothing wrong with the window, looks perfectly thiefy to me. A moon? Never! No time to modify. Springwheel's stuff's perfect anyway. (Runs away with the artwork to the Imperium forums.)

Arg. Sorry forgot to include contact info. God_is_my_goldfish@yahoo.com Or PM me in ttlg or ionstorm forums.

If take a look at the 'about' section of the website, you'll find a link to a letter from Electronic Arts to the webmaster that says '...we do ask that you drop the name and any affiliation the mod has with System Shock or System Shock 2.' Therefore it is also likely that the Dark Mod will not be allowed to have any 'copies' of names or objects from Thief in order to avoid copyright infringement. The team has changed there mod from 'System Shock 2: Rebooted' to 'Sapphire Scar' and ceased any affiliation from System Shock 2, however, it is obvious that the mod is based on System Shock 2 only completely unaffiliated, which is perfectly legal.

Nobody has to ask or acknowledge you. If you put it under GPL then you give up most of your claims on the stuff that you submitted. And that's exactly why EVERYBODY working on the project has to be aware of that BEFORE he starts submitting files. Once they are submitted they are assumed to be under GPL and we should make this clear to everybody. That's the job of you as a project leader. Another thing is, that we should get a file for every file that is submitted, that the submitter is either the copyrightholder and can do as he wishes with the file he submitted, OR that he has gained permission from the copyright holder to submit it to our project and it can indeed be put under GPL. For this it is also important to use a CVS system (not neccessarly CVS but *A* CVS-like system) in order to keep track of who submitted what. In case of copyright infringment this is our only defense. Since we can not allow everybody to have write access to CVS (at least I wouldn't recommend it) we should select two or three people with write access and everybody has to submit files to them. The job of these guys is to look through the submission for coding standards and probably to check if the code looks ok and to make sure to track who submitted it. For example in Wine or wxWindows they have a seperate mailinglist for sending in patches and then once a day they are submitted to CVS.

Since we started with this project I haven't heard anything about which license we will use. This is IMO quite an important decisision, as some memebrs may not want to use one license modell while others may and still others don't care. As we have seen in the case SCO against IBM this issue is NOT so trivial and can potentially affect everybody here. This is also important to protect our project against copyright claims or others ripping off. So I would suggest to discuss this BEFORE we start to create to much content and afterwards being dissatisfied with the decisions. One question: If we code for D3 what resctrictions are there for our mod? As with DromEd we had the restriction that all FMs had to be free and were not allowed to be commercially used without permission. I expect that a similar restriction exists for D3 mods (but then again it may not) so this already might affect the decision on which license model we can use. There are also other considerations, because if we choose i.E. GPL or any other open source compatible license model (there are several of them) we can register for services like webhosting, shell accounts, CVS services and others, which may not be available for closed source developments. I think it is better to use such existing services instead of relaing on private resources, because this gives us a major advantage. If there ever is a break in the private resources we will have to find new resources where to translocate them. If we use public resources, everybody has access and we don't need to worry over uptime or accessability or support. That doesn't mean that we can NOT use private resources as well, but it gives us many advantages for free and serves as a seamless backup. If this is comptable with D3 restrictions therfore I would suggest to use GPL/LGPL or a similar license model and I think there is also an Open Content license for art so we could put this there as well. Since this is a community project and we want to use community resources as well, I think this would be a fair decision. One reason why I also want to have this clarified is, to protect our work (I already have seen such a thing happen). If i.E. somebody writes a good AI code and suddenly decides that the code is so good that he no longer wants to offer it for free, then we are screwed. In this case we woould have to start from scratch and rewrite all this code from new. I don't want something like this to happen, so we really should decide an a license early on, so everybody knows what he can expect or not expect from the project. Of course this is also true for art (images, sound, models, levels, etc.), despite me writing mainly about code because I'm a programmer myself.

A cool tutorial from the D3W forums about creating new creature models. http://www.doom3world.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=5133