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I recommend looking at the Doom 3 alpha and seeing what you can potentially dig up there. Quite a few of the effects present in the alpha ended up being cut for final release, but as far as I know the engine still supports them. You might end up finding some soundbased goodies buried in it.

I don't mind my stuff being posted at all. A little about me: I'm 23, I live in Edmonton Alberta. I recieved a diploma in 3D animation and digital compositing at a place called Dev Studios (2003/2004) then I got an internship working for Plastic Thought Studios to produce a wonderbees trailer in which I rigged 4 of the 5 main characters and did facial blends for 3 of them. I'm an avid gamer, I don't have anything against the source engine (I hope that doesn't matter ) however I like Normal maps, and doom has normal maps I've been following you guys for a while, I love the thief games, thief 2 got stolen from me before I finished it, and I play the demo for deadly shadows alot (I swear I'll pick it up one day!) I havn't had much spare time -before- to finish off a character of my own, but now I'll be able to give more time to it, just the past few days I've been working on one, low poly and highpoly, it's based off of a Sister of Battle from Warhammer40k, here's 3 days of work: Texturing isn't my best area, but I CAN do it, it just takes me a little longer than everything else. The skin map I did for the elf character took a little less than a day, and I havn't started with the rest of her textures. I wish I had more examples of my texturing, as the fallen paladin character on my website is a rather poor one If you guys have any questions, I'd love to answer them

Don't use weapons WILL work if it is not a phrase, but actively supported by the engine.

Don't model them yet, oDDity. I've got some concept art to post as well. We should spend some time on these guys to get them right as they will be prominent in the campaign. It's not like we need the model for the first milestone or anything. If ever there were a model to not show off ahead of time, this would be it. At the moment, GIMG, the outfit looks a little too anachronistic. It looks very western to me. Coming up with an outfit for these guys is the challenging part, although I think I've found the right hat, at least. I'll be able to post it in a day or so. edit: As far as weapons go, I think they should use something more mysterious than just a fancy dagger. I don't think the Thief should ever wind up in hand-to-hand combat with them to begin with...the moment you kill one half of their mystery will be gone. However, if they must have a hand-to-hand attack, I would have them use some kind of overhand slash that is so fast you barely catch a glimpse of a glint of steel. You never get to see exactly what hit you, whether it is a knife, claws, or something else. I don't think they should ever be seen holding a weapon. For a ranged attack they could simply make a throwing motion at you, and seemingly from nowhere a half-dozen needle-like projectiles come your way. Also, I don't think we should literally show their feet off the ground...we just have their robes fall to the ground, but they move smoothly across as if floating. So we don't know exactly HOW they move. But it looks abnormal. The more things left up to the imagination with these guys, the better. I also thought it would be cool to give them the ability to increase the darkness around them, as if they are able to banish light from the area. Someone has already achieved this effect with the D3 engine, essentially making a reverse lantern. Our thief wouldn't benefit from this though, as they can see perfectly in the dark anyway. It would be a great effect for the player though, making it even harder to get a good look at these guys, and harder to successfully fight them. In fact, I think if we do allow hand-to-hand combat with them, if you win, the entire body should just be gone when the lights come back up, so you're never sure whether you actually killed them or they just disappeared to come back later.

Rope arrows are in, right? Even if so, I'd still like to see a simple grappling hook. Just a simple metal hook on a rope that you can toss around. With a physics engine (at least in Havoc's, probably in Doom3's as well) this should be easily done. As Sam Gamgee says, a piece of rope is always a good thing to have. Tis true, you know.

The official definitions I found of the two are as follows.... Diffuse field-a sound field in which the sound pressure level is the same everywhere and the flow of energy is equally probable in all directions OR Sound field in which the time average of the mean-square sound pressure is everywhere the same and the flow of acoustic energy in all directions is equally probable. Although, I liked this definition best.... The area in a room with multiple reflections equally probable in all directions. So, it sounds like it's kind of diffused in a way that almost makes it impossible to hear from exactly which direction the sound is propogated. The sound could be just as loud in one corner of the room as in the center. Direct sound field-the portion of a sound field, in an enclosure, which arrives from the sound source without having undergone any reflection. So, as far as what the AI hears I don't know if we should consider a dead room where very little reflections get back to them (seems like it would take less processing but may be "cheating") Here are some sites and a couple of .pdf files on sound field diffusion that might help.... Reverb and room acoustics sound waves study indoors and outdoors beam tracing for modeling sound diffraction propgation of the diffuse sound field document another propogation of the sound diffuse field document-might be the same as above sound propgation in ducts I hope that *any* of these help out! Also, is phase cancellation taken into effect with the sound engine? Just curious as to how that might figure into gameplay. Are we going to take into consideration weather effects on sound (atmospheric absorption) such as fog, rain, dampness, etc.?

I got this for Christmas (PC Version "Developer's Cut"), but only just able to play it since my DVD/CD drive broke and has only just been replaced. Anyhow, it's a pretty funky game (graphics almost identical to that of D3, almost to the point of looking like the same engine/game in places), with lots of sneaking quite like Thief and Deus Ex in many respects. Anyone played it?

I have no problem with criticism, but I'd like to ask that diametrical untruths not be spread about my pet pass-time. Yeah, TSP seemed like quite the juggernaut in the day. One of sscar's members (Yorick) was a large part of TSP, and we even inherited some of their assets as a result -- mainly music. And while our road towards a coherent plot hasn't been free of hazards, I like to think that we managed to avoid the more serious problems due to lessons learned from TSP. ------------------------------------------ Anyhow, to the subject at hand. It's unfortunate that D3:HoE won't be completing their journey -- I was quite looking forward to an open, large-terrain version of the sci-fi horror genre, especially with their lovely cityscape concept art. But the unfortunate reality is that the mod world is one of attrition. Much of this has been discussed on doom3world.org as well; incidentally, some of the projects on that site (especially "Doom 3 Can Do It Too") are doing a great job of advocating the Doom 3 engine. As has been mentionned earlier, Dark Mod is (from what I gather, at least) first and foremost a conversion/tool kit -- as such, it doesn't suffer the challenges of creating, and then working within a cogent storyline. I've seen some pretty impressive stuff from you guys so far, and I anticipate much more! -Glee

RE to sparhawk: I am just trying to see what I can do with the mapper, I am not too good with it right now, and so I was thinking that the best thing would be to use what I do know (making "curves"; basic optimizing) and what I did not know yet, but learned pretty fast (like the X sided brush), to make a map that needs just these things. And I didn't want a map that was a cube room with curves around the edges, and just stuff standing in the middle as detail (i.e. I didn't want this to look like any other 1st map). So what I have done was going to a place with screens of games (Gamespot) and choosing a nice screen that looked like it used the things I know, and then I began to replicate it. I am doing this just too see what I can do, and to get some experience, so I can some day make stuff. As I have once said here I am a hobby designer of stuff (websites, small games, homes(especially mine), other stuff...) so when I saw DOOM3, which is an engine with so many features that I can use to make something look "cool", and with such flexibility so I can actually include stuff other engines won’t allow (like the in-game computers, it's a key to make a game "Immersive"), I deiced that this would be the time to start working with games, and maybe making MODs. So yes, if I will get to a point at which I will be able to make good looking, functional maps, I would probably try to remake some thief maps (actually my plan is to make maps that have the same fell, and some of the same features, but are set in a shiny (i.e. "futuristic") or gloomy (i.e. "horror"/ lovecraftian style) world, with either lots of new challenges, or a different atmosphere, like people that are always spooked, and maybe different sets of events, as the world mechanics are different. One problem I do find with this is the fact that I suck at everything right now, and I also have no textures, and of course I have no idea how to make new ones (the first step is the hardest). But I will learn and in the end I will probably make something, especially when TDM comes out. ------------------------------ I believe my computer is a bit below the minimum requirements of the game(i.e. I got only 256 RAM), But I have a GF3 equivalent GPU, so the game runs at about 40-50 FPS most of the time, but I guess the textures and other stuff are pretty much on the lowest setting (I still have all the advance options on, but I get a 3-5 sec "lag" time when entering a map, but that's it, I play the game with no other slowdowns)

Actually, it doesn't look too bad in-game as it is, the engine adds a little idle sway anyway, and if you're moving it's even more exaggerated. I think we could do without an actual Bj Rasied Idle animation.

D3 Engine does this automatically. Texture files are the same for all (except the DDS files)

There are so many mods for source and so less for doom 3. you will drown in the amount of source mods but with the doom 3 engine u are unique! so please stay with doom!

dear oDDity YOU ARE simply AWESOME...I mean YOU ARE A TRUE GEM!!! IM OFFERING YOU a WEB TV SHOW.. YOU Will give your comments daily base about, engines, life, 3d modellers, 3dmodels, anatomy, girls...games... I mean the DARK MOD team can even licence the Doom3 Engine once you get famous.. Seriously im thinking to make you HATE IDOL.. Think about the FANS that YOU CAN HATE THink about the engines YOU CAN HATE YOu are an awesome man..It s time to build a webpage.. Im "oDDITY" and you know "i HATE you" (I will contact with Trey parker and send your posts to him at least you should be in SOUTH PARK..you are a truly inspiring character...I m serious im gonna make you famous" a gifted ARTIST with FULL of HATE and with tender Heart.. Man...Where was my mind earlier?????!!! BEST

Alright...Ok - the straight answer is that there's not a single member on this team who would cross the street to piss on the Source engine if it was on fire.

So I gave HL2 now a try and I must say - I"m not THAT impressed by it. It suffers the same problem which I didn't like in the first installment. That is a long intro sequence where you couldn't do anything jsut the credits being forced on you. The face animations are really good, but that's about it. Another issue that it has is that I again (just like in the HL1) I run around this train area and don't really know how to get the actual game started. I climbed through that window and are now on that plaza and that's it. Technically I don't see why there is such a hype about it. The plaza looks ok, but when I take a closer lookt at the textures, I must say that Painkiller does a much better job in creating dirty and scratched surfaces that look like a run down place. Just take a look at the factory or the seaport to see what I mean. The physiscs systems is nice in HL2 but I already found many quirks with it. And when I look at certain houses, they look rather flat and washed out to me. In Painkiller in City on Water there is a similar house and I must say that it really looks thousand times better. Painkiller gives me the impression that the area was really in use and has been abandonded while HL2 doesn't achieve this. Compared to D3 I don't see why HL2 shold be so much better, because the engine seems better to me. Gamewise HL2 will probably be better. This happened also in HL1 to me. Once the game started it was pretty immersive, but technically it was not that hot. And just to make this clear. I didn't buy HL2 as I"m still boycotting it, I borrowed it from a friend (which this is perfeclty legal here, no matter what the EULA says ) so I can take a look at it. I won't pay for this game until steam is removed (which will never happen anyway).

If it's the D3 engine, then the mod tools are already there. What can they make worse?

The planned release date is around Q2 IIRC. And yeah it's going to be on the D3 engine I'm seriously not holding my breath on its multiplayer, knowing that it will be Raven working on it. Raven never has the habit of releasing good modding tools

Is Quake IV gonna be using the Doom 3 engine? When's it coming out BTW? I heard the story goes back to the Strogg enemies of Quake 2.

Sweet! If I didn't know better I would think that was definatley a next generation Dark Engine shot. Great job BT.

For example, Thief Deadly Shadows was a total converson of the Unreal engine. Fortunatley we don't have to rewrite the renderer though. The Doom renderer suits our purposes vey well.

Will these intros be done in 'classic Thief style', or using the ingame engine? Have you decided upon the limits you wish to impose upon the storyline? I'll be done with work for the week at three o' clock (GMT), so I can concentrate on this.

To be honest I cannot understand it. Unreal is out of date now. Not that it's not great, it certainly is a great engine, but D3Radiant and Source are the new kids on the block with all new tricks. I cannot understand why mods projects for D3 have fallen so soon. This is the ONE thing that I like about Steam - I understand (and I may have misunderstood) that it will be possible to charge for mod and map downloading. Now if it is a small amount, say $5 for a big mod like this one, I'd be willing to pay. For maps $1 for a pack of a few (10 or 15). If it means the modders get paid, even if it is small amount, it would be great incentive. Take TDM. Let's say it's $5 a download. How many people will download it? A couple of thousand at least. Heck, some of the FMs for T2 have been downloaded 10,000 times. That's $10,000, nothing to sniff at. Even if you split it amongst the team it'd go some why to a new gfx card or some games or puppies or something. I'd expect Valve to take a small % but still, better than a poke in the eye. PS. And imagine all that and 10,000 DLs.

The Doom 3 community is faltering a bit, but is far from dead. I've seen interest in a game dry up and watch a community die, this one is still going strong...if not a bit stunned at the moment. In the end it's gonna be Quake 4 that draws all the attention to the engine. D3 has piqued a bit of interest, but it'll be Quake that brings all the hardcore Id modders to the scene.

WHat the hell are tyhose two screens supposed to prove. Christ, the old Quake 3 engine looked as good as that.

Campaignjunkie, everyone was discussing it earlier, but what I hate the most uberly about HL2 is not that the source engine looks a bit dated (which it does cos valve had been sitting on it's ass for a while expecting no comp till Doom3 came out) but the main reason is Steam. The most annoying thing in the universe (unless you Download a steam-crack, thus removing steam ). But I played HL2 and i enjoyed it, so im not saying it is "the worst game of the century", just saying that they got a bit lazy in production . --Dram