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Wow, nice! In reality it could be used for either a spy orb or a flashbomb, but we haven't discussed exactly how spy-orbs would work in the game.
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Actually, Oofnish, would you be up for modelling the lightgem? We need something to texture so we can start looking at it in game. The thread with the reference material is already created. If you'd rather not let me know and I'll assign it to someone else.
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Ah! Now I understand what you mean. We create an AI and a registry bas object which are connected. The Shopkeeper is a special type of AI that can interact with Garrett. This way the mod designer can create the shop design as he want's it and fits his FM style, but he wouldn't need to worry about the coding of the in-game shopkeeper. If you mean this, then yes. Sounds like a good idea. We still would have to create a shop map though, for testing this stuff.
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Ahh, but what I'm saying is that it's not meant to unbalance the game. It would be included as a fun immersion adding experience by the fan mission author to allow the character to get the tools he needs to play the mission. It would probably be the top objective of the mission. 1. Stop by the shop to get supplies for the job 2. Make your way to the Builder Cathedral and find a way in. That kind of thing. It wouldn't have to be there for show, but rather as an integral part of the mission...but again, only as an alternate to the pre-mission loading screen that Goldfish submitted. If the mission couldn't believeably use a shop, or the FM designer doesn't want it...use the original style preloading screen.
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I'm not sure I understand you correct. If we have the shops ingame (which could be done easily) we need to work out the detailed mechanics of how they can be used. Just putting a shop in there is not really helpfull because it will unbalance the game. What do you mean with "Drop the selling" stuff? It's the point of the shop to supply the player with his initial weapons beyond what the author deemed enough.
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The city hb was like this. But we could extract the shop idea and make it into a mini-game which loads before real missions loads. Just like the shop screen would. Or do you mean a shop that will be included into an FM? In this case how should this work? It oculd only work like this that we create a mini mpa for it, and the FM author extends his level around it. Like it was done in The Seventh Crystal (I think).
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I was discussing how this could work in the City concept thread. the primary problem I see with this is. It will add an element to EACH map wehre it will be used. How should this work in a cave setting? How will the FM author atioanlize the existance of a shop in the middle of nowhere? If the map is non/linear the player could come back anytime. This means that the balance will be lost because he can buy something in the middle of the game. I don't think that this is a good option. I have to look up the thread where I presented this concept.
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Ok, brainstorm away, but we only have sight and sound to work with, and if you rule out sound you're left with sight - i.e, a gem of some sort. ..unless we use Garrett (or whatever he's called) himself as the lightmeter. You look down at yourself, and see how much shadow you're in, I'm sure it would be no more technically difficult than a lightgem icon. Of course in real life it' possible fr the top half of your body to be brightly lit and the bottom half in shadow, but for game purposes, there will only be one amount of shadow for the whole body. You're already going to program body awareness in right? So we may as well put it to good use.
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oDDity, I really appreciate your innovation with the sound thing. I to would like to see if we can do it another way. But I can't agree with doing it in sound. Too many times, I have found myself standing dead still in the game, trying, nay, straining to hear even the slightest footsteps or talking, to decide if I should make that mad dash across the foyer in broad light. Hearing them in advance would save my life. When we're talking about sounds that quiet, practically anything can block them out.
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I read that you planned to do several bodys and several heads each on seperately to get more variety. I was wondering how this should be executed. Do you mean that just for modelling purposes, or do you mean that will give us coders i.e. six heads with three bodys and we can use them by assigning them randomly on the fly. If the first it doesn't really matter for us, but if the latter then we have to work out if this is possible and we also need the details on how we then can combine and animate the final models in-game.
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The overall shape is great, the proportions are perfect, it would be excellent as a low poly game model - but isn't this supposed to be the high res version to source the nomal maps from? You seem to be very tight-fisted with the polys, when you should be writing blank cheques. The main problems as I see it, is the geometric uniform nature of the organic shapes - legs and arms are not perfect cylinders, leather in real life is not flat and perfectly smooth. Eceyting need to be messed up a bt, like it's had a long hard life. And as you say youself, and I pointed out earlier, a lot of the detail still looks injection molded like it's all been beveled out. I have to say, and this is possibly my worst crit - it looks like you're trying to emulate the T3 Garrett model, which I considered risible when I saw in untextured in Lightwave.
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It would be more economical to have the heads seperate from the bodies, wouldn't it? It would mean more programming work - we'd have to have a "head type" etc. property for each model, but it would allow for more variety in game. No matter how many unique models you make, if you could swap their heads etc. around, you'd have even more combinations.
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Awesome, oDDity - I am so sick of seeing poser models. People dont' realise how much style there is available for representing the human body. You can always tell a poser model. Notice how you can always tell a Sims2 model. They have their own styles. We should make our own. I was wondering, oDDity if you were interested in modifying those humans to make our own kind of style, to base all the other models from. Eg. I noticed in the Thief 3 concept artwork, the style of everyone was this wierd, tall and lanky style, even in the face. It gave the artwork character, and a consistant, unique feeling across all the pictures. BTW - how nice to see a female modled with very REALISTIC proportions. If there's one thing I don't want to see in our game, its more unrealisticly huge bouncing breasts and impossibly thin waists. Enough games do that already. Besides, I don't know how anyone finds that attractive...
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I can do whatever, as long as my software allows I wouldn't know which KHz settings, etc. to use for a game anyways, so I'll rely on your guys' expertise!
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I love it. Let's get that one in game as well.
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I think that humanoid monsters are fairly well entrenched in the game. We can no more get rid of them than we can robots.
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Agreed, there should definately be an option to remove it...but we still have to keep in mind that we are creating an editor for people to create their own Thieflike fan missions. We shouldn't really deviate too far from the course we have set, which is to capture a Thief 1 and 2 style game. Not to be a nag, I just want to make sure we stay focussed. Should we all decide to stick around for a large campaign then I definately want to push the envelope and see what we can do to improve the gameplay in new and interesting ways. For now though, lets give the fans what Eidos won't.
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Well I'm one of those hardcore guys who completely wiped out the T3 UI in the ini files and played with no lightgem. It really doesn't make they game that much harder. Through level design and placement of shadows, you can let the player know pretty much all the time when he's in shadow by looking at his surroundings. THe way I play is just not to let guards have a direct line of sight to me, whether I'm in complete darkness of not, move when they have their backs turned, etc. I would vote for no lightgem, but I'm sure most players wouldn't agree. I would prefer a flat shape which hides at the bottom of the screen though, rather than that spikey round shape. How about something completey different. and playing an ambient or musical sound progressively louder as the player comes into full light and vice versa? Subtle of course, we'd have to come upo with the right sound that would add to the tension.
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heres a bumptest I did (this is just to show I know how ) Heres an example of some textures I have done in the past (Quake 3) Some ingame maps (Q3) Some mapping outside of game ] render of a test map (I havn't complete any d3 maps yet, so heres some stuff in editor)
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I'm really impressed by the edgelooping on the face and hands - awesome work, my friend. As for using an in-game clothsim for clothing.. this really wouldn't work well. It's fine for gigantic curtains and the like, because they don't need to conform very well to the body, so they don't have many vertices - but a cloak or robe would need a ton of vertices, and thus would take a ton of processing time. oDDity - are you going to do the animations, or no? If you're more comfortable modelling, I'd definitely be willing to animate for him, as that's more my expertise.
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The thief model would probably be used in cinematics, body awareness, and potentially the spy-orb if we have one. But yes, for the most part it wouldn't be seen in the game from what I understand.
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This is a legal requirement. If we use the same names it could well be that we have a laywer at tha doorstep who wants to shut down the mod. Similar has already happened for the System Shock 2 conversion. They were forced to rename their project and remove all references to the original games. They said soemthing that it is a dishonour for the game or some crap like that. Since we have no laywers here, we should be on the save side, if we don't use original names unless it is clear (like The City).
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Ever tried Lightwave modeler? Much better than max at that job. But I suppose if you're alreay used to max, it's a pain to learn another app. Maybe its just the flat lighting in those shot than makes it look like one contiguous mesh. How many polys so far? And a thought that just occured to me- since this is first person, we aren't actually going to see the model in-game?
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Fro all those where the mod crashes, you can remove the gamex86.dll from the pk4 file for now. As of current there is no functionality in there, so it is not strictly a must. That the mod is crashing with the DLL is a good sign, though. It means that the DLL is loaded by the game and recognized, so don't take it as a bad sign just because it crashes. That's to be expected for such an early test.
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Well the only problem I have is that those ones aren't exactly the same type as there were in the thief games. They wear baggy pants and jackets. Frankly the desicion in that area will be up to you and sparhawk, so i won't fret if we use the in-game models.
