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I've done a lot of modelling for Thief II, and I couldn't do what you've done in two days in two months... Great work, looks awesome!

See? Now he's green. On the plus side, I've eliminated the obnoxious, squatty-looking style of the old version - now he's appropriately tall and muscular (arms are a good place to look to see the difference). The back is sculpted nicely, compared to before, and the armor has a bit more mass as well. Torso needs a bit of thickening, to match the armor on the legs, and he needs, you know, a head and hands as well - but you can see the progress. Please remember that this is less than two days of work, from scratch.

Obviously I've been interested in this mod from the start but since I'm involved in some other issues I've not made any comments. The screens you've show so far are very nice. I don't recognise anyone on the team from other mods or FMs except ModeTwo from TUT and NB. How experienced are you guys? And how are you finding it? My main query is - what will you do if we get the TDS editor? There will be a bit of a software conflict with people making FMs for TDS whilst you guys work on this. Given that you have stated that this will only be out next year at the earliest do you not think that many of your ideas will be overtaken? Don't get me wrong - I'm not trying to bring a negative vibe - I'm just being realistic. I don't have Doom3 and won't get it until XMas at the earliest (as that is probably when I'll get my new gfx card). I have a NB/TDS map/FM in the works. It's really a SP FM but I can adapt it to NB MP. If the TDS editor is released I will make it for that 1st. But now I have an MP version designed I want to take to NB eventually anyway. And if there is no TDS editor then I'd love to make it for The Dark Mod as that is the only way the real atmosphere and plot will come out. Can someone explain the SDK/editor score with Doom3? What comes with it and what can you DL? And what are it's limitiation, what is it's scope?

I think it's important that the texture artists try to work with a certain colour palette - it seems they already have the warm fire feel for the indoors lit with torches. Now out doors should be decided on soon, like strong blues and purples or greens maybe (and yellows, for the lights), or something, like the Thief 3 concept artwork. All good artists know that less is more. By that I mean, if the scene is filled with all sorts of colours, it loses its identity, but if there is a specific theme going on, it shows and it really has its own character. People were saying "This is what Thief 3 SHOULD have looked like!" about Renzatic's screen shots, and I beleive the colour palette is why. We (well, the artists) should strive for a unique, and unified feel for this Thief world. You can see good examples of this in a lot of 2D games. I think 3D games are only just catching up there, as the tools let artists express themselves more easily - a lot of older 3D game all sort of look alike, but now, with some of the nicer looking games, you can take a screen shot of it, and it is so easy to tell straight away that it is from that game, and not another game of that type. I think a good example is Need For Speed Underground. All the neon colours glowing in the dark, and the motion blurring. It's not the most realistic racing game out there (check out some of those new rally games), but it is certainly one of the prettiest, and best looking racing games out there. (If I have people disagree with me about NFSU, then maybe I chose a bad example, but I hope my point gets across all the same)

I know what you mean. I mean, I have never played Thief 3 YET (still trying to get my upgrade) but from the screen shots, it doesn't look like the original games the way Renzatic's and BlackThief's work (in Renzatic's screenshots) look. I'm still trying to work out why this is. One thing that popped into my head is that it actually looks more angular than Thief 3, so it looks a bit older, like the old Thief 2 and 1? But looking at some of the indoors screenshots, Renzatic's room is just lacking the other details and bump/specular mapping that make the room feel more "rounded". I think it's the colour palette. Renzatic's screenshots feel very warm, very fiery and orange. The Thief 3 screenshots, while still cool and thiefy, seem more "over-cast grey", even indoors where the torches are. I'm sure these texture artists know this kind of thing already, but I'm going to make a texture palette mention in the "Targets" thread.

Right. That was my firs thought when I looked at this screenshots. They look exactly as I expect it from a room in the Thief universe. Not something like T3 but something REALLY Thief like. Great work.

Yikes. I wouldn't let people in, out of priciple, either. I really don't have much much to show for my previous efforts - a couple of hard drive deaths and a habit for giving away paintings to friends and the like, have made sure of that. I've got some illustrations I did for Local government and some of the Wildlife Trusts (a UK charity) knocking about. I could scan something in. Better than that, I'll produce some generic Thiefy content over the next few evenings - That way you can assess my work and get something usefull done at the same time

Apologies, but from your post... ...It didn't sound like you're quite as sure as you need to be. The SDK is not open source (GTK Radiant is not open source, only the GTK bit is) and GPL is the wrong license to use because of the reasons I have outlined above, and also because you can not link to closed source libraries (such as the Doom 3 engine) under the terms of the GPL. GPL is a wonderfull thing, but is is not the appropriate license for a Doom 3 mod (I mean that in a legal - you will open your self to cease and dessist notices from ID and the free software foundation if you do - kind of way). Sparhawk is on to a good thing to request clarification of copyright issues, but choosing the right license license requires a little care and attention. Good work so far, by the way. I'm looking forward to contributing some stuff to the project

Pakmannen: yes. Mr Pettitt: any samples? In practice I'd say sure, but I don't want to just let anyone in, on principle. Everyone should produce samples before acceptance really. PS. I have heard pakmannen's work, just so you know.

Ok, I'm not a team member but I had a looky and noticed that the thread was closed - which is a shame because some further clarification might be needed. I havn't read the terms and conditions yet, but as far as I know Doom 3 and Id's Doom3 SDK are not released under the GPL. Id only release their code as open source (quite a different thing from letting people play with the source code) several years after release and the shelf life of the product has expired. Neither is GPL a 'non commercial' or 'free' license, it just happens that a lot of free software uses GPL. Meeting the (fairly hefty) requirements of the GPL will almost certainly infringe Id's own copyright as you will be granting the right for anyone to distribute the code commercially (doh). And, just in case you havn't got the gist of this post yet, the GPL has been designed exclusively for the distrubtion of software code. It is next to useless for licensing creative content such as audio, textures, level designs and so on. The deeds offered by Creative Commons are much better suited for that kind of thing. In short. GPL is wholesome and good, but unless you specifically know otherwise, steer well clear. Id will probably mention terms and conditions for distributing Mods in one of their readme files.

I'll get to work on our Builder church- types. This is my first week back at work though, so you'll have to give me until the weekend.

...and another victorian wood texture - actually I'm very proud of it, cauze it's a really good looking high-res texture, however I didn't get the right color, so that it doesn't fit to the other wooden stuff I made here are 4 different versions (the 1st is the original) - maybe someone else can do the color-work better, so that it'll fit better to the other stuff... 1. version 2. version 3. version 4. version I think the texture will look good at the upper edge of a wall. I don't know how you call it in english.

Oh god, not the sword vs dagger again. The size argument just doesn't work, since we also have a thief walking around with a longbow and quiver full of arrows, and who can carry a dozen goblets, plates and paintings around with him on missions. No one is talking about having a thief with a five foot broadsword, either. But a short sword makes sense (and is also the classic D&D Thief weapon, btw). Arguments for a (small) sword: 1. Continuity. Two of the three Thief Games have Garrett using a sword. (and interestingly enough, even in T3 the other Thieves in the game had swords) 2. Versatility. Garrett doesn't just break into houses, he also travels through underground ruins, crypts and pagan forests. Any character who risks battling zombies, giant spiders, treebeasts and burricks is going to want something longer than a dagger. 3. Gameplay. Fighting with a dagger comes down to clicking fast and circle-strafing. In terms of gameplay it was not enjoyable at all, at least for me. The sword fighting in T1&2 allowed for parrying and fencing, and was more fun to do. Now, I suppose we could allow for both options...although I can't think of a situation where a dagger would be preferable to either a short sword or a blackjack. But please, if we decide not to use a sword, let's not do it because it's "realistic".

I guess that would work. Will satisfy all the realists and those who like the T1/T2 versions. Plus D3 has the multiple weapons already built in so that'll work.

Hi, I would like to work on the background music for some or all of the levels, depending on specification of course. I currently only use a shitty four-track system with various instruments, but I am confident I can create something decent and Thief-like (without ripping off the original games music or Thievery techno-style stuff).

Not yet, no. The specular maps are the one big thing I'm missing at the moment. Based on what I've seen thus far they're not a dire necessity...can't hurt to have em, but everything looks fine without em. The texture package...so far I've kept everything nice and organized, but there are a few textures in there that absolutely refuse to work no matter what I do. Considering that about 1/3rd of Id's textures aren't showing up, I'm starting to believe it's more of a bug with the editor than a problem on my end.

Well, please conside me as a tester when the Time comes, I also have some Great map ideas, that might work. Thx for your time.

wow - the ceiling looks great now ! I think you should go ahead and post it on the Dark Mod thread...

Make sure you check it out again...I just tweaked the ceiling and added some more trim along the walls. If it's alright with everyone else I'll go ahead and post it on the TTLG thread. It's kinda got that Widow Moria look to it, which is alot closer to the style we're going for than my first map.

great work man I hope I get D3 tomorrow in the computer store, where I buy my new computer components. If everything works fine I'll be able to play D3 on highest-details in 2 days BTW: as soon as you've got your ceiling we should post this screen in the ttlg-forums, I think people will be really impressed.

Seriously depressing. But what can you do =P At least most of my work over the last 8 months or so has been non-3D, or work-related, so it's in different folders. Thank god. If I had lost all of my art, I would be in a hospital now =P Well, what can you do. Springheel, if you read this, can you, ah, try knocking up some concept art of other characters? Guards would be ok, but the less thief-looking they are the better. Hammerites mayhaps? Anything to give me an artistic focus.

Umm. So. I just lost the file for this. I had no backups. Or rather, I had many backups, but only in one folder, so they all got nailed. Um. Yeah. I'm actually seriously in a terrible mood about this now - two or three weeks of work down the tubes. Will be taking a bit of a break before I guess I'll start it again. So.. yeah. If there's any really light 3D work you want done, I may be able to but that's probably it for a bit.

My programming skills are sucky, im stuck in basic. But I think I can be of great help in the concept part. That is, inventing background stories, characters and maybe some level design. EDIT: Forgot to mention this important detail. I can send samples of my work if needed. These include writting and level design.

There's nothing wrong with the window, looks perfectly thiefy to me. A moon? Never! No time to modify. Springwheel's stuff's perfect anyway. (Runs away with the artwork to the Imperium forums.)

I've been working on a portfolio piece for a while between other commissions. It's below. We can certainly use it for a webpage or promotional material when its done if you like. I'm working on things for other clients and my Real Job resumes tomorrow, but it would be finished in a couple weeks. work in progress: