Top models to be rigged?

[Domarius]

The wierd joint names problem is easily solved - looks like the importer renames the joints like that, so we have to rename them back after importing them. (Or I could even edit the script so that it doesn't do that, the fucking thing...)

 

And the 68 vs 71 joints thing has come up before - unfortunately I can't find the thread where it was discussed. It does have to do with animations/models/def files using different numbers of joints... basically something is outdated. The thing with 68 is missing the 4 lower skirt joints, and has an extra bone that is deleted in the 71 joint version, which accounts for the 3 joint difference.

[Domarius]

Here's what I found;

 

http://forums.thedarkmod.com/topic/7263-citywatch-rig/page__view__findpost__p__185536

 

Looks like im losing bones somehow during the exportmodels function. All versions of the Maya idle_sneeze files have 71 joints. The previous version of the idle_sneeze had 71 joints. However using TortoiseMerge, i see that the version im producing is said to have 67 joints, which is what TortoiseMerge says the previous tdm_ai_citywatch.md5mesh had for joints as well.

 

I think I ran into this issue as well - when running exportModels, the exporter created the .md5anim and also the .md5mesh, but the mesh was wrong. I just reverted the changes to the md5mesh file (so that I had the SVN version again, I only kept the md5anim file) and it was working since then.

[Springheel]

And the 68 vs 71 joints thing has come up before - unfortunately I can't find the thread where it was discussed. It does have to do with animations/models/def files using different numbers of joints... basically something is outdated.

 

That's not the case here. I'm taking a current animation, importing it into maya, saving it as a .ma file, then exporting it with D3 (without even making any changes).

 

The resulting animation has a different number of joints. This has happened both with our animations and default D3 animations.

 

It looks like joints that have no mesh weighted to them are being culled, but I'm not sure at which point in the process this is happening.

[Domarius]

Not sure - can you tell me exactly what files you're using? i.e. .def, mesh, anim. I assume the MB file is one you've made yourself from importing the md5mesh.

 

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In other news - I'm trying to give IK to the leg on the noblewoman imported mesh and it goes mental because the values aren't at zero.

 

It's hard to imagine how this could ever work in game, so it's probably a problem with the md5mesh importer for maya.

 

Spring if you rigged this girl in Lightwave, can you help me confirm this? Can you open the lightwave version and check the rotation values for the RightLeg joint.

 

Because, in the md5mesh I imported into Maya, I have;

RotateX: -10.345

RotateY: -89.975

RotateZ: 100.32

 

 

When in fact they should be zero, or very close to it.

 

If the lightwave file is uploaded to model_src repository, I can check it myself in lightwave when I get home. (Should install lightwave on this laptop)

[Springheel]

Can you open the lightwave version and check the rotation values for the RightLeg joint.

 

The rotation values are all 0 or 0.01.

 

If the lightwave file is uploaded to model_src repository,

 

She's in the lightwave character files folder.

[Domarius]

Well, that settles it then. We can't use the md5mesh importer for Maya, it's probably ok for people wanting to rip models and muck around, but no good for serious work.

 

Okay new plan - I'll get deep exploration, and convert your lightwave noblewoman to Maya, and add the handy controls to that. Even though it fucks up the mesh, that's not a problem because it should be good enough to animate with and we won't use that Maya file to export the mesh - we'll only use it to animate with, and the lightwave file remains the original source for the actual mesh.

 

Sound good?

[Springheel]

Sure, sounds like a plan. The most up-to-date noblewoman file is in models_src.

[Domarius]

Cool - if the lightwave files for the forger are uploaded (and any others you've worked on) I'll get onto those too.

[Domarius]

2. The stocky characters do not work very well with the current skeleton/animations. Most of the animations rotate the torso around the Spine1 joint, but that cuts right across the biggest part of the belly on these characters, and looks terrible. I don't whether that can be fixed by better weighting, or whether it needs modification to the animations, or what.

 

I tried out the stocky dudes, and there's no way we can get away without making stocky animations for them specifically, but some time can be saved by importing the existing animations and tweaking them. They need to be adjusted otherwise their arms clip through their bellies - and may as well make them actually move like fat people in the process.

 

I think the forger is going to have to have his face guard removed or enlarged, his head clips through it all the time, which will happen often with the dynamic head turning.

 

Builder priest has some unweighted verts around his waist which I'll need to fix.

[Springheel]

I tried out the stocky dudes, and there's no way we can get away without making stocky animations for them specifically, but some time can be saved by importing the existing animations and tweaking them. They need to be adjusted otherwise their arms clip through their bellies - and may as well make them actually move like fat people in the process.

 

 

Yes, I already started making stocky animations, but that's not enough. But the weighting really needs to be changed somehow, because of the spine1 problem I mentioned above.

 

I think the forger is going to have to have his face guard removed or enlarged, his head clips through it all the time, which will happen often with the dynamic head turning.

 

Yes, I adjusted it a bit already. I'll be giving that character specific, limited head-turning values as well.

 

Builder priest has some unweighted verts around his waist which I'll need to fix.

 

That must not be the most up-to-date version. The Builder Priest is working fine, and it wouldn't if there were unweighted verts.

[Domarius]

Depends, have you seen him sitting in a chair? Unweigted waist verts only show up when the hips displace far enough from the origin, and they usually don't move far in most animations so it's easy to miss. I only saw it cause the imported anim glitched out and moved him far.

 

Sounds like the stocky character problem could be fixed by a combination of better weighting and anims that move the tummy better.

[Springheel]

Depends, have you seen him sitting in a chair? Unweigted waist verts only show up when the hips displace far enough from the origin, a

 

Well, the verts must be weighted to something, or D3 would throw an error when you try to load the character in game.

 

Sounds like the stocky character problem could be fixed by a combination of better weighting and anims that move the tummy better.

 

Yep, feel free to weight him however you like...I tried a few things but I just don't have the background to know how to best approach it.

[Domarius]

Cool - if you haven already, can you upload any light wave files to their model folders in model_src, that way I know if I can work from the mb file or not for mesh & weighting changes.

[Springheel]

Ok, the most recent forger is up now. Feel free to redo the weighting or make any other changes you need to.

[Domarius]

Cool. And you haven't got a lightwave file for the builder priest? He's the one with the badly weighted verts. Some verts in the crotch area are weighted to origin (very common mistake). I've already fixed it but haven't exported it to the game. His materials are pointing to texture files that don't seem to exist anymore, so I was wondering if there is a newer lightwave priest.

 

Also it'd probably be worth uploading the lightwave files for anything you've worked on, to model_src. That way model_src does have the latest src needed to modify the game, and if your computer dies or something,, we don't lose all your work.

[Domarius]

Hm I don't have Deep Exploration, perhaps you can convert the noblewoman LWO to MB then?

[Springheel]

Some verts in the crotch area are weighted to origin (very common mistake). I've already fixed it but haven't exported it to the game. His materials are pointing to texture files that don't seem to exist anymore,

 

That obviously isn't the most recent version.

[Domarius]

Probably he has an lwo file that you've worked on that isn't uploaded?

 

I don't mean to keep asking the same thing over and over again, it's just that I haven't yet had a direct response as to whether all your lwo files are uploaded to model_src or not.

[Springheel]

Probably not. Since I've basically been the only person working on character models for years, I've gotten into the bad habit of not keeping models_src up to date.

[Domarius]

Well I've got the noblewoman to work on for now, and I have deepexploratuon now, so I have stuff to do for the moment. So no hurry I guess but they should all get uploaded at some point. Builder priest would be next priority.

[Springheel]

Builder priest is up already.

[Domarius]

Thanks I've got everything.

 

With the exporting - I tried MB and DeepExploration said "Maya installation not found" (even though it is installed) so I tried OBJ and it seems to have come into Maya OK, except with no bones.

 

Is that right? If not maybe you could just export her for me and I'll handle the rest.

[Springheel]

I've never had good luck trying to export these to different formats. I always wind up losing data--layers get compressed, uv data is lost, or something else goes wrong. Though in this case it probably doesn't matter very much about those things.

[Domarius]

Yeah that's the idea in this case. If I can be saved having to re-weight, at the bare minimum, we are all good.

 

I was just under the impression that someone had done it before because there is a tutorial on the wiki. But perhaps that never included the weighting and skeleton?

 

I think if this is the case, then I will just fall back to the noblewoman MB file. Would that still be useable as an animation rig?

[Baddcog]

I though FBX was the way to go between maya and max (possibly others) and keep all the info.

 

I've asked to have some of the meshes converted in the past with no response so...