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Im a huge fan of the thief series, and was pleasantly surprised to see a mod in the works for the d3

engine. everything looks fantastic from what i have seen so far.


Im very intrested in making a map for this mod, something gothic with a graveyard...


here is a screen of a church i started to put together in doom3 ( but not for doom 3 play.. meant for the darkmod )


church 1


its very dark at the moment because i have not added proper lighting, plus the textures are a mish-mash

of whatever for the time being. Im more concerned with the overall geometry til i get it proper.


but its mapped in d3, and i would love to get a chance to try it on the darkmod.


who should i contact to request this?

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Nice work! I've moved things inside, to the applicant section. Not sure why it wasn't working before...but it worked this time. :)



Thanks a lot. I will post some more screens as i go along in here so you all can decided if i can be a beta mapper.


There's still a lot of things to learn with the doom editor, and i get side tracked will all it can do. Its a real

nice engine.


thanks again

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Thanks a lot. I will post some more screens as i go along in here so you all can decided if i can be a beta mapper.


There's still a lot of things to learn with the doom editor, and i get side tracked will all it can do. Its a real

nice engine.


thanks again


I agree, it's very nice to use. :) We have a few tweaks you might want to try. Makes the workflow a lot smoother.


This first tweak will let you run all three views at once. If you want to expand the main window to cycle through views, you can. :)


Go into the editor.cfg file and look for

sett radiant_XZVIS "1"
sett radiant_YZVIS "1"
sett radiant_ZVIS "1"


Back up your doom3.exe and replace it with this one....make sure you have the 1.3 patch installed. This fixed .exe will allow you to minimize the 'Inspectors Window".



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drumple, would you be willing to put the map in the images above (the newer one - vastly improved over the "tossed" one) up for download, or at least post some wireframe screenshots? Your patch work looks really clean and efficient, properly done for lighting (something we've discussed internally and I'd still never seen a solution, until I stumbled across a cap tutorial), and just really, really good. I don't think I've seen anyone do those bevelled arches and windows before, and they're simply fantastic.


I've no problem admitting I'm still a DoomEd n00b myself, and I believe I could learn quite a bit from seeing how you did things in those shots. Even if not just a case of "getting it done," maybe one of "getting it done properly."

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drumple, would you be willing to put the map in the images above (the newer one - vastly improved over the "tossed" one) up for download, or at least post some wireframe screenshots? Your patch work looks really clean and efficient, properly done for lighting



How i got those arches took a bit of time and running around, and i know its not the most efficient way

to go about, but it works for me... and if u want to try it u will need a few mostly freeware editors or

equivilent's that u may already have. i'll run down the list of what i used to make them,


- Wolfenstein Enemy Territory ( the game ), and a decent gtk editor for it, i prefer version 1.3.13

- Deep Exploration, used to convert model types, free trial

- Lithunwrap, UV unwrapper ( used to be a freeware version, became Ultimate Unwrap ) but can still be

found in its lith free form somewhere on the net.

- Milkshape 3D, 30 day free trial to edit low poly meshes

- 3ds Max 7 to export ASE models.



now then, there are 2 parts to the arch, and here's the run down on how i got the

spacer one ( basicly same for the other large ceiling one )


I opened up gtk enemy territory editor, and made all the brushwork in there 1st,

i did initially use a simple patch mesh to make the layout, making ity curve in a quarter circle, but ajusted

some vertex's on it to make it arch more upward and to a point in the middle ( more gothic feel ),


then i made brush work, simple blocks and moved the corner edges to where the patch matched closest

on a grid of 1


when it looked alright, i deleted the patch ( there's actually no patches in those arches, it just looks that way )

i textured the parts that were going to be shown, saved it and bsp'd it.


then i used q3map the latest version, and converted the bsp to an ase model, everything that was textured

gets compiled into an ASE model, everything that has caulk on it gets ignored.


i then took that ASE converted it with DeepExploration to a .3ds, which i then used LithUnwrap to convert it

to a milkshape model format.


opened up milkshape and edited the polys/verts to make the bevels and so on. afterthat, back to lithunwrap

to edit the UV map, saved the new model as a .3ds again, that gets loaded up into max 7 and exported

back to an ASE, which i then use in Doom3...


all those arches are models. and i know its a long winded round about way to get them made, but i dont own

the 3ds max 7, its at my friends place, his brother has it so i cant use it to do all the work.

i have to split it up among diff editors.


but that process works for me and i can flip between all those programs uber quick since im used to them.

all i need in the end is the finished .3ds which i burn to a cd or disk if its not to large and go visit my

friend for a bit and get the ASE exports.


im thinking of trying gmax, because it has an md5 exporter script somewhere and it would reduce a lot

of the running around.

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Wow. Well, it's good to hear that perhaps I'm not strange then, having to put much time and effort into trying to understand this stuff and get it right. I've begun to assume that everyone else just spends 10 minutes and gets great results. :)


As of now, I've made a (not perfect, but pretty good) bevelled arch (I assume that's the right term for the arches with the diagonal cut), learned about using simple patches to make more things than I thought they could be used for, thickening (also from that other post - w00t), and *finally* made a proper vaulted archway without lighting problems which come from using square cylinder (learned that bad habit from a misleading tutorial) - all from studying your pictures. And all in DoomEd. The only thing I'm unsatisfied with in my progress is, as usual, texturing. Either DoomEd just doesn't have useful texture alignment features, or I don't know them. I get warping no matter what I do - doesn't look smooth and proper like yours on the vaulted ceiling. Aside from that though, I'm pleased.


Summary: I've learned quite a bit from this. :wub:

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nah, your not strange. to make a decent looking map takes time, even on some of the more little

things players may not notice. acrhes and curves are the worst for me, thats why i prefer to

them in brushwork and then to models for manipulation. aligning textures in doomed is a pain

like all the radiants are. in model form they are easy to align. plus another reason i prefer it

is that its modular, in that 1st pic of the newer church, everything in it is a model except for

the pillars and floor. the arches, far wall, torches on the pillars and the windows are all models.


i just copied and pasted to make more, that map file of the church is only 444k so far.


as for the lighting.. thats a pain in doom3 to get looking right... i added the light bluish to appear

as moonlight.. but as i have seen in the thief games, everything is slightly lit, even the dark areas

and ambient light in doom3 is non existent so i have been reading, but not due to the engines

design, but to hardware limitations with the new lighting system... even though i dont understand

why nvidia or ati couldnt just add a sorta hardware minlight to the gpu's that adds whatever

value of minlight to all textured areas .... but anyways...


another way maybe is to add another stage to all the non light emitting texture shaders that

blends in a fixed color texture that will act as a light... maybe a real deep blue that will make

every corner thats dark lit up ever slightly... thief 3 managed to do it somehow... maybe i'll screw

around with that idea for a bit... i have been playing with the particle emitter and i think i may

have a way to get that moving moonlight streak effect that was in deadly shadows... so far

it looks promising...





i had a chance to play with blending a very darkened diffuse image with a very slight tinge of blue added,

and it seems to work very well.. very "thief 1 or 2" like... maybe with more ajustments thief 3 like....


before with only 1 light source from the window no thief style ambient


after with the same 1 light source and added textures ambient textures added



still needs a bit of playing with i think.. lower blue ajustment, or even just a straight darker diffuse with

no colors added, but it has some advantages in that it does make it look thief style, and you can reduce the

amount of lights needed to reveal the corners and other pitch black area's. hiding in those now easily

seen dark corners should decrease your light gem since its still a 'pitch black' shadowed area.


i reduced the size of the ambient texture by half and up close in the dark it has that campy thief style of

look, flat and blotchy, but when a light is added all the bumps and specular comes back.


up close no light


up close with light

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well, i added some blend add textures to all the ones im using in the church map ( except for

the light emmitting ones now, such as the stained window ). this time around i did not add any

bluish effect, as it seems they take on a slight blue themselves when their brightness is turned way

low ( i used irfanview and a setting of -220 for everyone ).


now i can see everything as if in a dullish moonlight, and i'll add some lights now and see what

effect it gives... i use my fists that i can see ingame as a lightgem. i'll post some screens shortly of the

before and after look plus a count of all lights used.


EDIT: some screens...


all ambient 1


all ambient 2


all ambient 3


and with no lights just the ambient added...


no lights 1


no lights 2


original map had 36 lights, and it still needed more, beacause a lot of the map was in darkness

still... i cut the lights down to only 18 now, and you can see everything in it, and you can stand in

the shadows and still be in total darkness with no light cast on you, but see the floor/walls ect.. of

where your standing in.


im going to go with this type of lighting for now, little more tweaks i think, but its what i was looking

for in some kind of minlight/ambient system.

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