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New Zombie Skins/Monsters

sparhawk

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sparhawk

sparhawk

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Spring there is a thread on Doom 3 world where somebody released a new skinpack for the Doom 3 monsters and Zombies. I spotted at least two skins that look bloody awesome and would also work for our mod.

 

One of them is this one: http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/5017/sawyer17sv.jpg

 

The Doom 3 thread is here: http://www.doom3world.org/phpbb2/viewtopic...79eac734776cea5

 

The relevant thread with screenshots is here: http://www.forumplanet.com/planetdoom/topi...amp;tid=1877646

 

 

I also thought that this imp could work quite well as the Craymen(?) from Thief. Looks pretty similar, especially with that newer skin: http://i2.tinypic.com/v8pndc.jpg

Gerhard

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Springheel

Springheel

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I'll take a look at them. The problem with most D3 zombies is the modern-looking clothes, which can't really be modified very much.

TDM Missions:   A Score to Settle  *  A Reputation to Uphold  *  A New Job  *  A Matter of Hours

Video Series:   Springheel's Modules  *  Speedbuild Challenge  *  New Mappers Workshop  *  Building Traps

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Springheel

Springheel

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He hasn't really changed them that much, just added more detail to the skin. That zombie you linked to is just the alternate hell skin for the boney zombie that we are already using with a bit more spit and polish on it--I don't personally like the way he's made the pentagram so obvious, but I could try and take a look at it.

 

The archville could be an alternative for the crab-beast if we want one. Transferring monsters from D3 over to the mod isn't always straightforward though...I still haven't found out why the spider queen doesn't work properly.

TDM Missions:   A Score to Settle  *  A Reputation to Uphold  *  A New Job  *  A Matter of Hours

Video Series:   Springheel's Modules  *  Speedbuild Challenge  *  New Mappers Workshop  *  Building Traps

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Springheel

Springheel

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I don't think we'll be supporting "monsters" in the first release anyway (except possibly spiders), so community members will be free to import whatever D3 creatures they want for special case maps.

TDM Missions:   A Score to Settle  *  A Reputation to Uphold  *  A New Job  *  A Matter of Hours

Video Series:   Springheel's Modules  *  Speedbuild Challenge  *  New Mappers Workshop  *  Building Traps

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sparhawk

sparhawk

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If Doom 3 craymen "suck" so much, I'm sure there is a host of modelers just waiting with their finger perched on our doorbell. Can't wait until they are streaming in. As long as we don't have the manpower, we have to do with what we got. Not what we would like to have. And why should it matter wether we reuse some of the models that are suitable? They are there to be used and can always be exchanged later. You can create the complete gamemechanics with standin models, but you can't create gameplay with nothing.

Gerhard

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Springheel

Springheel

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If Doom 3 craymen "suck" so much, I'm sure there is a host of modelers just waiting with their finger perched on our doorbell.

 

No need to get so worked up about it....

 

Craymen aren't exactly crucial parts of the toolset. If a mapper really wants a monster for his map, they can use whatever D3 monster they want. But we should be careful about porting over recognizable monsters straight from D3 for "official" TDM creatures, for the same reason we wouldn't use a D3 chair model--it breaks immersion.

 

I was a little hesitant to include the zombies, actually, but because you meet that particular model so rarely I don't really associate it with D3.

TDM Missions:   A Score to Settle  *  A Reputation to Uphold  *  A New Job  *  A Matter of Hours

Video Series:   Springheel's Modules  *  Speedbuild Challenge  *  New Mappers Workshop  *  Building Traps

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Crispy

Crispy

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Keep in mind that if we use D3 assets, we force people to buy D3 in order to play TDM.

They'd still have to buy it for the engine...

 

Besides, we're using D3 assets already. Hell textures and stuff. It's a bit late for worrying about that. :)

 

I reckon pulling zombies from D3 is fine (provided there are no obvious pentagrams/modern clothes to worry about), but the archvile is so recognisable that it would break the immersion. Perhaps it could be used as a base for a crayman-like monster (e.g. the animation and skeleton could be re-used), but the modelling would have to be changed at least a bit I think.

My games | Public Service Announcement: TDM is not set in the Thief universe. The city in which it takes place is not the City from Thief. The player character is not called Garrett. Any person who contradicts these facts will be subjected to disapproving stares.
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sparhawk

sparhawk

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Craymen aren't exactly crucial parts of the toolset.

 

That may be so. But we don't exactly have so many models to choose from, that we can be all to picky at the moment. I don't say that we should port over all the monsters, but in this case I think it looks pretty close to a Crayman that it can be used. And it's not only the modelling part, we also have a lack of texture artists and animators at the moment.

 

If a mapper really wants a monster for his map, they can use whatever D3 monster they want.

 

I don't think that it's just that, because the AI has to be prepared for TDM. It's not just sticking an existing D3 AI into TDM and it works out of the box.

 

I was a little hesitant to include the zombies, actually, but because you meet that particular model so rarely I don't really associate it with D3.

 

As long as the Zombie doesn't have to modern looking clothing it should be ok. ombies are Zombies, there is not so much special about them.

Gerhard

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Crispy

Crispy

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err...he was being sarcastic...I think :blink:

I thought he might be as well... but if he was being sarcastic then I'm not sure why he brought it up, unless it's some obscure in-joke.

 

I still think that the crayman would need some minor modification to make it look different from the Archvile. Perhaps this could be done later on though; concentrate on getting the (renamed) Archvile into TDM first, then worry about how it looks later. I guess this is what sparhawk is saying.

 

By the way, if we were to include them, what would we going to call them? Doing a Google search for "crayman" turns up mostly Thief references; so, like Burricks, they're pretty unique to the Thief universe and IMO the name should be similarly avoided, even though it's a pretty obvious thing to call them. (Crabmen? Hey, one letter is enough. :P ) Of course this isn't the thread to debate this, but I thought I should make the point... maybe the next person to respond to this should make a thread about it in the Features forum. :)

My games | Public Service Announcement: TDM is not set in the Thief universe. The city in which it takes place is not the City from Thief. The player character is not called Garrett. Any person who contradicts these facts will be subjected to disapproving stares.
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Springheel

Springheel

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I still think that the crayman would need some minor modification to make it look different from the Archvile. Perhaps this could be done later on though; concentrate on getting the (renamed) Archvile into TDM first, then worry about how it looks later. I guess this is what sparhawk is saying.

 

In terms of resource management, trying to recreate craymen simply isn't very high on the list of things to do. They were in what, 2% of all Thief missions? We have FAR more important things for modelers and texturers to be doing.

TDM Missions:   A Score to Settle  *  A Reputation to Uphold  *  A New Job  *  A Matter of Hours

Video Series:   Springheel's Modules  *  Speedbuild Challenge  *  New Mappers Workshop  *  Building Traps

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Gildoran

Gildoran

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They'd still have to buy it for the engine...
What about once the source-code is released for free? If we can make sure that TDM doesn't use D3 assets, then we could release a version of TDM that's entirely free. Imagine how great it would be for the community if all people had to do was download TDM.

 

I don't think the hell brick texture is worth giving up the possibility of an entirely free TDM.

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Springheel

Springheel

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I thought we'd been over this before and decided that there are too many useful assets--particle effects, hell textures and models, light textures, sound fx, etc--to separate TDM totally from D3? We're already using the zombie models and are working out how to use D3 animations and heads.

 

D3 will cost about $5.99 in the bargain bin by the time we're done this, so I don't think we should be too worried about cost.

TDM Missions:   A Score to Settle  *  A Reputation to Uphold  *  A New Job  *  A Matter of Hours

Video Series:   Springheel's Modules  *  Speedbuild Challenge  *  New Mappers Workshop  *  Building Traps

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sparhawk

sparhawk

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In terms of resource management, trying to recreate craymen simply isn't very high on the list of things to do. They were in what, 2% of all Thief missions? We have FAR more important things for modelers and texturers to be doing.

 

In terms of resource managment we should use what is there, not what we would like to be there. And if there are not enough models to populate a map, people will rather have at least on other model, then another copy of the other one.

Gerhard

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Crispy

Crispy

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What about once the source-code is released for free? If we can make sure that TDM doesn't use D3 assets, then we could release a version of TDM that's entirely free. Imagine how great it would be for the community if all people had to do was download TDM.

Sure, that would indeed be great, but I don't think we have the resources to do that right at the moment.

 

Doom 3 is already pretty cheap (I bought my copy for $20 AUD so that I could work on the mod), and it's popular enough that it's not exactly difficult to find. Given that, I don't think it's worth remaking every single useful D3 asset. The more we can scavenge from stock D3 (without it looking out of place) the better.

My games | Public Service Announcement: TDM is not set in the Thief universe. The city in which it takes place is not the City from Thief. The player character is not called Garrett. Any person who contradicts these facts will be subjected to disapproving stares.
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