Ascottk's Animation Reference Files

[ascottk]

All of the current AI now have full body ik for animation purposes. Included in the rar archive are files for maya (mb) and motion builder (fbx). There's a maya binary with no ik for fbx importing. Each character has their own folder with 3 files each.

 

Original files:

http://208.49.149.118/TheDarkMod/models/In...ask_animref.rar

 

Updated citywatch (stand alone):

http://208.49.149.118/TheDarkMod/models/In...tch_AnimRef.rar

 

Files (AnimRef_idles are posed in the idle position):

• AnimRef_idle.mb (maya binary with full body ik - fbik)
  
• AnimRef_idle.fbx (motion builder with ik ready for animation)
  
• fbx_import.mb (af_posed ready for fbx importing with no ik)
  

All character have their weapons & heads attached via parent constraints. The Maya version with fbik has floor contacts for the feet.

 

Known Issues:

• When importing an fbx, the origin might be resized. Follow these directions in Maya:
  
  http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?s=&am...ost&p=93477

  
  

• The head & sword mesh might be off their original position in Motion Builder if exported from Maya.
  

  
  

   
  
  
  In Motion Builder use the Navigator window & double click the constraints. Uncheck "Active" then click the "Snap" button:
  
  
  This will align the mesh to their proper position.

  
  

• The head & sword mesh might be off in Maya. Delete the parent constraints in Maya, reposition meshes then reconstrain.
  

You may also want to look at oDDity's Motion Builder tutorial:

http://www.pixelwerks.be/pictures/MB_tut_01.avi

 

The full body ik (humanIK1) in Maya is parented under the skeleton so if we need to move the origin for walking/running then the fbik will move with the whole thing:

[Springheel]

That's great! Does that mean our AI will use IK to walk upstairs now?

[ascottk]

That's great! Does that mean our AI will use IK to walk upstairs now?

These are only Maya and Motion Builder files. I'll look into the D3 ik though.

[Solis]

Wow, that's great, it'll be much easier animating with IK again. Should speed up animating considerably, thanks for that Ascottk.

 

I did notice a bit of a problem with it though. I'm not sure if this is an issue with the bones or just the way you rigged the part of the model to the bones in Maya/Motionbuilder, but the legs seem to bend in a pretty strange way:

http://www.geocities.com/canisinvicti/strange-bend.avi

That line of points just above the knee seems to jut forward when the leg is bent. It looks a bit off, and it's an issue with all the models, but mostly the citywatch ones and the proguard.

 

Also, these are just minor issues, but all the FBX models except for the Thief have a few unassigned points on the lower back, so it looks like their cloth is being stretched out to that point when you move the models, and also on the left hand of the citywatch. some of the points on the thumb seem to be assigned to the bone for the mitten fingers, so it looks scrambled when you move any of the bones on that hand (and there's one unassigned point on the right hand thumb, but that's not very noticable).

 

I'm not sure if any of these even need fixing since if they're just problems with the FBX/Maya versions, and not the rigging on the actual in-game models or the bone structure, then we can just ignore them since it will look fine in the game and it will only look off when viewed in Motionbuilder/Maya. If none of these problems have an affect on the md5anim that's created, then it doesn't have to be a priority. I'll do a few animation tests to see how it looks on the actual models.

 

Aside from that, the IKing looks very nice. I'm impressed that there's even IK constraints on the toes of the feet so that the boots aren't always flat on the bottom, should make it look much more realistic when they raise and lower their feet off the ground.

[Domarius]

Just ignore that "wierd bend" of the knee. You can't notice it in the game, and AFAIK it's bending as well as it can be, given the limitations. You will never get amazing joint bends in video games - the vertice weighting has to be either 0% or 100%, no inbetween.

[Domarius]

Holy crap... I can't use these. I don't know what's wrong, all I know is oDDity's versions work, and yours don't.

I made a pic describing what's going on. You can see the white square where I'm currently dragging the move tool up and away from the character.

 

In addition to what's described in the pic, if I kept dragging further away, the thigh started to twist up ... it's all very weird.

 

I can't even animate "in reverse", which is what it would seem to want to do by that pic. When I dragged the effector in the opposite direction, through the floor, the foot moved forwards but still didn't lift up off the floor.

[oDDity]

I think his Ik setup was only to animate in maya. Motionbuilder already sets everything up automatically from the skeleton you import, ik for the toes, floor contacts for the feet and hands etc.

[Domarius]

Forgot to say - that was the FBX file I was using.

citywatch_elite\AnimRef_idle.fbx

 

Okay well I loaded citywatch_elite\fbx_import.mb into maya and for some reason there was no FBX file type when I went to export it. I'm using Maya 7.0.1

[ascottk]

I think his Ik setup was only to animate in maya. Motionbuilder already sets everything up automatically from the skeleton you import, ik for the toes, floor contacts for the feet and hands etc.

If the rig has fbik in maya then MB will have everything setup for you. If the rig in maya doesn't have fbik then you have to do additional things to get a working ik setup in MB.

 

Forgot to say - that was the FBX file I was using.

citywatch_elite\AnimRef_idle.fbx

 

Okay well I loaded citywatch_elite\fbx_import.mb into maya and for some reason there was no FBX file type when I went to export it. I'm using Maya 7.0.1

That's only for importing fbx files into maya. The AnimRef_idle.mb is the fbik setup for animation in maya.

[ascottk]

Holy crap... I can't use these. I don't know what's wrong, all I know is oDDity's versions work, and yours don't.

 

I made a pic describing what's going on. You can see the white square where I'm currently dragging the move tool up and away from the character.

 

In addition to what's described in the pic, if I kept dragging further away, the thigh started to twist up ... it's all very weird.

 

I can't even animate "in reverse", which is what it would seem to want to do by that pic. When I dragged the effector in the opposite direction, through the floor, the foot moved forwards but still didn't lift up off the floor.

Before you go rushing off on any conclusions, be sure you know what you're doing first. I thoroughly tested before uploading these to ftp & here's how the elite looks when I move the left foot in maya:

I have no clue how you're manipulating yours. It looks like you have more than one effector highlighted. Be sure to read up on maya fbik.

 

I've been using the citywatch regular for the base animations so please use that.

 

EDIT: I parented the fbik (humanIK1) to the skeleton:

So if we need to move the origin for walking/running then the whole thing will move with it. When you're moving fbik effectors, look for those in the outliner beneath the skeleton. BTW, ctrl-f is setting a fbik key as opposed to "s" for fk.

[squill]

so these rigs are all you need for animation and are the latests? I'll take a look thru them and see how they work so eventually i can help you guys animating.

[ascottk]

so these rigs are all you need for animation and are the latests? I'll take a look thru them and see how they work so eventually i can help you guys animating.

The test_animation map uses animations I made using these rigs. They're not up to date as far as the latest rig fixes but they work.

[Domarius]

ascottk I'm not jumping to any conclusions - I said all that I experienced - "All I know is oDDity's work and your's don't."

 

The obvious difference between our pics is that yours is a screenshot from Maya and mine is from Motionbuilder. I intend to be animating in MotionBuilder because that's what it's meant for, much better for animating than Maya.

 

I don't have more than one effector selected. I choose the move tool, click the blue orb (the effector) drag it, and I get the result in the picture.

 

I'm sure you did your best to test them, but I want to know if and how it works in MotionBuilder. All I know is oDDity's don't have a problem for me, they still work fine, your one doesn't.

 

I wonder if the Maya IK stuff that's been added is conflicting with the way MotionBuilder does IK.

 

Solis's statement "Wow, that's great, it'll be much easier animating with IK again. Should speed up animating considerably, thanks for that Ascottk." confused me, because I've always been animating with IK using oDDity's models, the citywatch elite anyway. I thought all you had to do in Maya was weight the skeleton, give the bones the correct names for MotionBuilder, import it into MotionBuilder and MotionBuilder does the IK for you?

 

This is crazy waiting a day for exchanges. Can we talk in chat?

[squill]

The test_animation map uses animations I made using these rigs. They're not up to date as far as the latest rig fixes but they work.

 

ok... so i should be able to use these rigs for animation and for example, i could merge those animations on the latest rig when exporting..?

 

i looked thru the files in maya(will use Maya for anim not MB) and it seems not that hard to use..although i was wondering:

 

- Is there an IK/FK switch or can i use FK right away on the arms.

- are there certain things, like limitiations or other things that i need to know about the rig

 

last thing... who is lead of animation and could point me into the right direction on which animation i could start on

[Springheel]

last thing... who is lead of animation and could point me into the right direction on which animation i could start on

 

I'm the lead by default, since it falls under the art department and the only other lead with any animating knowledge (BlackThief) has vanished. Seeing as I know nothing about animating, however, I can only try to keep track of who is doing what and what still needs to be done (check the comprehensive animation list if you haven't already). In terms of who knows the most about what's going on, that would be Ascottk.

[squill]

I'm the lead by default, since it falls under the art department and the only other lead with any animating knowledge (BlackThief) has vanished. Seeing as I know nothing about animating, however, I can only try to keep track of who is doing what and what still needs to be done (check the comprehensive animation list if you haven't already). In terms of who knows the most about what's going on, that would be Ascottk.

 

good to know

the animating itself shouldn't be a problem, The things like setups and export are area's which i need to get hold of. I know how to export models and animation out of Maya but i have to get deeper into things like the script files which call/drive the animations of characters etc.

 

I checked the animation list before asking, but it's not really clear who is doing what so maybe i could start with some idle animations that are still open...

[ascottk]

ascottk I'm not jumping to any conclusions - I said all that I experienced - "All I know is oDDity's work and your's don't."

You make it sound like the fbx files I made are fucked up in general. The more appropriate phrasing would be "Your setup does not work for me". Note the "for me" part. Just because you can't make it work for you doesn't mean they don't work.

 

The obvious difference between our pics is that yours is a screenshot from Maya and mine is from Motionbuilder. I intend to be animating in MotionBuilder because that's what it's meant for, much better for animating than Maya.

Okay, here's how it looks on my end in motion builder:

 

I don't have more than one effector selected. I choose the move tool, click the blue orb (the effector) drag it, and I get the result in the picture.

 

I'm sure you did your best to test them, but I want to know if and how it works in MotionBuilder. All I know is oDDity's don't have a problem for me, they still work fine, your one doesn't.

They work fine for me & apparently for Solis too.

 

I wonder if the Maya IK stuff that's been added is conflicting with the way MotionBuilder does IK.

Just because it doesn't work for you (& I often wonder if you know what you're doing) doesn't mean the fbx files are screwed up & you make it sound like I didn't put these together correctly. The ik translates really well for me.

 

Solis's statement "Wow, that's great, it'll be much easier animating with IK again. Should speed up animating considerably, thanks for that Ascottk." confused me, because I've always been animating with IK using oDDity's models, the citywatch elite anyway. I thought all you had to do in Maya was weight the skeleton, give the bones the correct names for MotionBuilder, import it into MotionBuilder and MotionBuilder does the IK for you?

The fbx import/export scripts in maya translates the ik as well..

 

This is crazy waiting a day for exchanges. Can we talk in chat?

This doesn't need to be resolved yet. Waiting a freakin' day or to isn't going to kill you.

[Springheel]

I checked the animation list before asking, but it's not really clear who is doing what so maybe i could start with some idle animations that are still open...

 

That's true. Ascottk is so fast I have a hard time keeping track of what he's working on.

 

Not only that, but a lot of times animations spend a long time in a WIP phase, so it's hard to know when they're "done". But you're right, we could definitely use a better system for keeping track of what animations exist and which models they've been applied to. I'm open to suggestions.

[Domarius]

Of course I know what I'm doing - I made the previous animations using oDDity's models. I know it's easier to assume I don't know what I'm doing rather than suspect there's a difference between our setups, but please humour me.

 

All I can tell you is that your ones are behaving differently for me. You probably have motion builder set up differently or something. I need to find out what settings are different and this would involve several exchanges "try this" "nope nothing" "okay try this" "nope" "try this" "ah that works, thanks" so of course chat is ideal for this. Plus I don't know how you can say "this doesn't need to be resolved yet" since the animating department is where we're falling behind the most.

 

(The "for me" bit would have been more polite I agree, but I assumed you'd know it was implied because you obviously got it working for yourself before you uploaded it. Also I never saw a mention of motionbuilder so I naturally suspected maybe it wasn't working in motion builder.)

 

Ideally, one posts a request for help to save wasting time working out what's wrong when someone already knows the answer and can tell them quickly, but it's not the case here unfortunately. I guess it'll be a little while till my next update.

 

Animating in Maya can't hope to compare with MotionBuilder. Without the ability to layer movements in a flexible way, you end up with very stiff robotic animations with almost no subtle secondary movements. I've got to get this working in MotionBuilder.

[ascottk]

Of course I know what I'm doing - I made the previous animations using oDDity's models. I know it's easier to assume I don't know what I'm doing rather than suspect there's a difference between our setups, but please humour me.

 

All I can tell you is that your ones are behaving differently for me. You probably have motion builder set up differently or something. I need to find out what settings are different and this would involve several exchanges "try this" "nope nothing" "okay try this" "nope" "try this" "ah that works, thanks" so of course chat is ideal for this. Plus I don't know how you can say "this doesn't need to be resolved yet" since the animating department is where we're falling behind the most.

I hardly use MB so I'm not sure what settings I have The "has to be resolved yet" doesn't mean it has to be resolved right here & now. It can take days or the next hour.

 

(The "for me" bit would have been more polite I agree, but I assumed you'd know it was implied because you obviously got it working for yourself before you uploaded it. Also I never saw a mention of motionbuilder so I naturally suspected maybe it wasn't working in motion builder.)

Wasn't the first post enough to say that these are motion builder ready? Even with Solis saying the fbx was working as well?

Files

• AnimRef_idle.mb (maya binary with full body ik - fbik)
  
  
• AnimRef_idle.fbx (motion builder with ik ready for animation)
  
• fbx_import.mb (af_posed ready for fbx importing with no ik)
  

 

Animating in Maya can't hope to compare with MotionBuilder. Without the ability to layer movements in a flexible way, you end up with very stiff robotic animations with almost no subtle secondary movements. I've got to get this working in MotionBuilder.

Yeah, I've got to learn Motion Builder. Slowly but surely I am, but it'll be a while.

[Domarius]

Wasn't the first post enough to say that these are motion builder ready? Even with Solis saying the fbx was working as well?

I guess 'not seeing a mention of motion builder' was not an entirely accurate statement on my part the real motive behind that statement was that I'm not seeing any love for motion builder here - so far everyone is content to animate in Maya, much to my absolute horror...

 

I've kinda called off all but a few evenings and just doing darkmod in all my spare time, till I get the wheels turning again.

[oDDity]

These work for me also, in maya and motionbuilder. IF you're having problems with the motionbuilder side of things, you can actually just animate in maya, sicne they're now fully rigged like in motionbuilder.

So can you take animaiton from one rig and apply it to another wihtin maya then, if the rigs are differently proporioned for different charcaters?

The onyl thng I'dd say about the weighting, is that you need to weight the skirt flaps to the bones coming out of the thigh, front and back. THats' what they're for, that way you can do the secondary motion of the flaps after you have done the walk animation.

It looks quite weird now, the way everything is glued to, and follows the legs.

I dont' know much about advanced constraints in maya, but it seems a good idea would be to somehow pin the top of the pauldrons to the shoulder, so it always pivots around that point and never cuts though. It'd save a lot of time manually adjusting them later for each animaiton.

[ascottk]

These work for me also, in maya and motionbuilder. IF you're having problems with the motionbuilder side of things, you can actually just animate in maya, sicne they're now fully rigged like in motionbuilder.

So can you take animaiton from one rig and apply it to another wihtin maya then, if the rigs are differently proporioned for different charcaters?

Sometimes I had to fix a few things like the translation & rotation of the leg rolls but importing an fbx from another character does work. The citywatch walking animation was taken from the proguard.

 

The onyl thng I'dd say about the weighting, is that you need to weight the skirt flaps to the bones coming out of the thigh, front and back. THats' what they're for, that way you can do the secondary motion of the flaps after you have done the walk animation.

 

 

It looks quite weird now, the way everything is glued to, and follows the legs.

Great! Thanks for the tip. In the grand scheme of things I'm still a newb when it come to rigging

I dont' know much about advanced constraints in maya, but it seems a good idea would be to somehow pin the top of the pauldrons to the shoulder, so it always pivots around that point and never cuts though. It'd save a lot of time manually adjusting them later for each animaiton.

Thanks, oDD, I'll try that.

[Domarius]

Can't layer the movments in Maya, so it will always look stiffer or take 10 times longer to replicate and be hell to make changes to, than doing it in MotionBuilder.

 

oDDity has Motion Builder version 7.5, he told me in email. I have 6, so that could be the problem. What version are you using ascottk?

[ascottk]

oDDity has Motion Builder version 7.5, he told me in email. I have 6, so that could be the problem. What version are you using ascottk?

7.5 so there's your problem (maybe). I'll try to export a mb 6 compatible file from maya (didn't work within motion builder).