Ivy; Models And Textures

[mikebart]

Ive just uploaded the highpoly .max file of the Ivy to the ftp, also new versions of the Ivy diffuse, specular and normal. Ive also added 2 new tiling ivy textures one growing verticaly and the other growing in all directions.

 

The verticle one looks good wrapped around framework, anything pole like, and provides a good base for leaves to be added onto.

 

 

The second one growing in all directions is for covering large surfaces like the panels or a large stone wall.

 

 

Ive also included the timber panels in the zip, I thought they would be useful for the mansion maps.

 

enjoy

[Springheel]

Wow, those shots look fantastic. I'd like to order ALL the textures you're using there.

[sparhawk]

WOW! Is this a photograph or a rendershot??? Looks fantastic!

[SneaksieDave]

Really looking great. Where are they found on FTP? That place is now a hopeless mess to sift through. If anyone did upload them to SVN, are they by chance foliage/trim/ivy_001*? I don't think so, but just in case. If not, I want to make sure we don't overlook these.

 

Edit: mikebart: the wispy curtains got me thinking - do you take requests? Do either have, or have technique for, creation of spiderwebs and cobwebs? I've given it a try a couple of times and didn't like the results (I've a couple new ideas but haven't tried them yet). The ones from D3 are lacking, and it's a pretty important item. Various kinds, single cobweb strands barely clinging to a ceiling, or full spiderwebs blocking a window or hallways, that sort of thing. Creepy shit.

[sparhawk]

There are some cobwebs in Doom3 already. Did you look at them? IMO they look pretty shitty though, but maybe it's a start?

[SneaksieDave]

Yeah, they're pretty crappy. I actually went back and looked at the ones in TDS, longingly. They're not great, but pretty good.

[PinkDot]

I was going to make some cobwebs sooner or later (I don't mean to discourage mikebart, cause I'm sure his ones would look great). I just have to take a look at those doom's ones, to know what you call shitty. But to be honest with you I can't think at this moment of any really good looking cobwebs in any games. Most of them are too cartoonish.

[ascottk]

I was going to make some cobwebs sooner or later (I don't mean to discourage mikebart, cause I'm sure his ones would look great). I just have to take a look at those doom's ones, to know what you call shitty. But to be honest with you I can't think at this moment of any really good looking cobwebs in any games. Most of them are too cartoonish.

The first time I saw a cobweb in d3, I wondered what the hell it was The ones in TDS are fairly decent though.

[SneaksieDave]

Here's a good TDS one: http://img250.imageshack.us/my.php?image=webs8jt4.jpg

And another, which is useful for corridors and nasty looking ceiling traps, when piled up: http://img265.imageshack.us/my.php?image=webs9un3.jpg

 

The ones in Doom are pretty much just blurry nondescript white smears. Not useful at all really.

 

Here's one from Ressurrection of Evil. Too bad we can't steal that one.

http://img250.imageshack.us/my.php?image=websaq0.jpg

That's good shit.

 

I'd say the preference is definitely textures over models (models are just so limited to use), but if both existed (for instance, for a model, a big 3D snare, or a funnel spider thingy... drool), that would be great. PinkDot, I hereby address the request in your direction as well. I'd love to see what you'd come up with.

 

Edit: come to think of it, a really thick (think mummy thick) dense web could be used on curved patches to make a pretty scary looking funnel. That plus new TDM spiders coming out = need new underwear.

[OrbWeaver]

A funnel web would certainly be more appropriate, you are not going to find many orb webs in dark corridors.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Tegenaria_gigantea.jpg

http://bugguide.net/node/view/27101

[PinkDot]

I took a look at doom's cobwebs - yeah, they're very blurred and look like cotton wool. But the good thing about them is that they're not flat but 3D. T:DS cobwebs were flat, as far as I remember. The good thing about radiant is that with patches mappers can build their own cobwebs, piling them one on each other and shaping them according to architecture.

 

It's not the thing I'm going to start with immediately, but sooner or later I'll make some.

 

BTW: I'm not sure about your opinion on RoE's webs.... They look nearly like modern stained glass...

[SneaksieDave]

Not so much the crazy winding shape of the RoE one, that's a bit unrealistic. But I like how it's meaty, 3D-looking with a normalmap, even. Almost like rope because that spidah be so damn big.

 

But yeah, normal ones are also needed of course (like the TDS roundie).

 

It's not the thing I'm going to start with immediately, but sooner or later I'll make some.

D'oh!

[mikebart]

Wow, those shots look fantastic. I'd like to order ALL the textures you're using there.

 

ok no worries, the curtains and the glass havent been rendered out to .tga's for doom3 so ill have to test them in the engine first, ill upload them as soon as I do.

 

Really looking great. Where are they found on FTP? That place is now a hopeless mess to sift through. If anyone did upload them to SVN, are they by chance foliage/trim/ivy_001*? I don't think so, but just in case. If not, I want to make sure we don't overlook these.

 

Edit: mikebart: the wispy curtains got me thinking - do you take requests? Do either have, or have technique for, creation of spiderwebs and cobwebs? I've given it a try a couple of times and didn't like the results (I've a couple new ideas but haven't tried them yet). The ones from D3 are lacking, and it's a pretty important item. Various kinds, single cobweb strands barely clinging to a ceiling, or full spiderwebs blocking a window or hallways, that sort of thing. Creepy shit.

 

They can be found under 'darkmod/models/mikebart', sorry, I forgot to mention about that.

 

About the curtains, I used a highpoly model for the normalmap and then hand painted the alpha channel in photoshop.

 

I think if I was going to make spiderwebs for giant spiders i'd build a highpoly model ove a reference photograph using the line tool in what ever modeling app you're using, project it onto a plane, then paint the little hangy bits in photoshop strait onto the alpha channel, have a look at the Ivy_highpoly.max file its all set up for projection and the vines for the ivy were done in pretty much the same way, you probably would'nt need a spec map because im pretty sure spiderwebs absorb alot of light, unless you want to model droplets of water on them.

I check the forum nearly every day, so ill always be able to help out if you want to have another go.

[SneaksieDave]

Yikes, sounds even scarier than I expected. Well, I'll probably fiddle around with line tools and see what I can do, or ultimately wait (patiently!) to see what Pink comes up with.

 

About the ivy, I might be misunderstanding:

Ive just uploaded the highpoly .max file of the Ivy to the ftp, also new versions of the Ivy diffuse, specular and normal. Ive also added 2 new tiling ivy textures one growing verticaly and the other growing in all directions.

These are in the form of, and intended use as, textures, models, or both?

 

Edit: looks like both, great!

[SneaksieDave]

Also, before I spend too much time on what's probably just me forgetting something: does Doom need something special done with the alpha channel? I'm seeing the alpha channel fine in PSP and PS6. I've made a texture with an alpha before and it worked fine. However in Doom the ivy is coming through without the alpha (i.e., on a black background). Am I forgetting something trivial in the material definition, or does the TGA need some kind of conversion, or...?

[mikebart]

Yikes, sounds even scarier than I expected. Well, I'll probably fiddle around with line tools and see what I can do, or ultimately wait (patiently!) to see what Pink comes up with.

 

About the ivy, I might be misunderstanding:

 

These are in the form of, and intended use as, textures, models, or both?

 

Both, they can be used as patch meshes or modeled to fit around an object in a modeling app, by adding the 2 new tiling ivy textures it opens up a whole lot more possibilities for covering large surfaces like walls at little cost of polys, the tiling pattern can be broken up by the Ivy leaf textures. I havent added the new textures to the .mtr file so you may need to do that, below is the shader you'l need if you want to paint vertex shadows, I doubt you'l need it for most Ivy situations though.

 

models/skool/bramble_vertexcolour 
{ 
  //DECAL_MACRO 
noShadows 
  twosided 
  //polygonOffset 
  nonsolid 
  noimpact 

  {		
   blend   diffusemap 
  map   models/skool/bramble_d.tga 
  alphaTest 0.5 
  vertexcolor 
  }	   
  bumpmap		 models/skool/bramble_local.tga 
  specularmap	  models/skool/bramble_s.tga 
  {		
   blend   diffusemap 
  map   _black 
  inversevertexcolor 
  }	

}

 

Ive also included the highpoly model of the Ivy, I think it might be useful for generating textures for the vine arrow and you can see how the scene is all set up for lighting and projection.

 

All you have to do is select the lowpoly mesh,

 

open the render to texture dialog and click render. It will render out diffuse, specular and normal .tga's

 

for the alpha you need to render the diffuse again but turn off shadows and lighting, call it "whatever_alpha" then open it in photoshop, select sampled colours and copy the black area onto the origional diffuse alpha channel

 

 

Im not realy too familiar with PSP, if you're having trouble seeing the alpha working in doom3 it probably the material

have a look at the material for the origional ivy

[SneaksieDave]

Yep, seems that's probably it. I was looking around and noticed that I'm missing the alphatest keyword. Thanks for that, I'll get back to it. I downloaded all four of your zips; there's quite a bit to digest here.

 

Now a question for the rest of the team - has anyone incorporated any of these textures yet? I don't want to duplicate effort. Also, are the tree(s) in yet? Seems they might be but I'm not sure it's the same ones. Dunno if I'll take those on myself, but at the same time we shouldn't overlook 'em.

[Domarius]

Just caught up - those vine pics look like photos in a way, and I don't think I've seen the Doom 3 engine looking so good yet

 

Webs: well I liked D3 webs they are the very sinister, silky, very fine kind, that only certain kinds of spiders leave, across corners like that. Yes, not the classic "cob-web" shape that most people are familiar with. Though that Ressurection of Evil one looks like a good cross between D3's and T3's... we should copy that

[OrbWeaver]

Aren't those renderings from a 3D app rather than Doom 3? There are some definite soft shadows there which Doom 3 would not produce.

[Domarius]

Ah, well spotted.

[mikebart]

Ah, well spotted.

 

but I could have taken a render from 3dsmax and put it on a wall in doom

[SneaksieDave]

Okay, I've looked at getting mikebart's ivy into the game. It can either be a simple, done-in-a-few-minutes task, or it can be troublesome and time consuming. I was originally shooting for a balance between the two, but it's looking more like it leans toward the latter if done in the way I intended (separate materials for each). So I'm looking for input on how this should be done.

 

Option 1: See image attached below. This is how the ivy is currently laid out on a single image. They can be rigged up with a material, and boom, they look great in game. Tested and done.

 

Pro: Easy, fast, done.

Con: They're all on the same sheet. Makes it harder for a mapper to work with them (see below)

 

Option 2: Cut them all into their own little images. Give them each their own material, and then they're in game.

 

Pro: They're all standalone, easier to work with (see below)

Con: more work, resizing will throw off relative scales, resizing to multiples of 2 will cause distortion (or require padding space), etc.

 

If all are on the same sheet, it is a bit harder for the mapper, because each time they want to place a texture, they have to fit and adjust accordingly. E.g., if they want the large patch at the base of the wall, and then want some of the smaller patches sprouting from it, it's not just a matter of placing a patch, texturing it with Fit, and you're done. You must place the patch, figure out the right size you need, seek the texture spot across the surface of the patch, resize if necessary to fit (because auto "Fit" can't be used anymore). The advantage is the scales will all still be fixed relatively, with the same size settings.

 

Edit: Hmm, then again, in DarkRadiant, using the TexTool, this is not a very difficult task...End Edit

 

If they're on separate sheets, laying them out for a mapper is as simple as creating the patch of desired size (same as above) and selecting the texture and hitting Fit.

 

However! The textures will be different sizes, relatively speaking, and possibly even distorted. They don't all have dimensions that conform easily to multiples of 2, and using them would inevitably always involve some cramming or stretching on patches to make them lay right. If that route is avoided by adding "dead space" to cushion the individual textures to multiples of 2 sizes, then they will obviously have dead space - so Fit might not give desired results.

 

So the question: does anyone have "the" definitive word on how this type of thing must be handled and why? Or, is it fine to just go with the quick and dirty option #1, which requires some placement work by mappers, but keeps everything properly sized and proportioned relative to each other?

[PinkDot]

I think the best way would be to make out simple models of that (as I've mentioned before). Each model would be just one rectangle with one piece of ivy texture.

 

Pro:That way you could build with them easily without loosing proper scaling. And they still will be one texture which is important from the performance point of view.

 

Con: You can't scale them to give subtle dimension variety. But we can have two or three diffrent sizes of those models if we want.

 

---

I can do that - it will take me 5 minutes.

[SneaksieDave]

Sure there could (probably should) be model versions. Thanks for that, Pinkdot.

 

As for having them also available as standalone textures, the question still stands. If no one speaks up, I'll probably just upload the single texture for ease (for now at least - it could always be changed), and since Pink's offer to make models makes this less pressing of an issue, and finally considering the power of the DarkRadiant TexTool for alignments. That way, they're there in case the models aren't appropriate for a given need (different sizes, curved patches, etc).

[PinkDot]

Sneaksie - did you upload texture and ivy material to SVN? or is it still on ftp?