Regarding Model Dimensions

[Baddcog]

Alright, you all probably know by now I'm using Max. Most of you are using Maya, Blender or Lightwave.

 

So, we can each model according to a relative sized Ai. But how tall is that Ai, and which one?

 

Now this is fine for most stuff no doubt. A knee high ceramic pot is a knee high ceramic pot. Who cares if it's 3.0 feet or 3.1 feet tall. I sure don't, as long as the flinderz match

 

But seriously, I was just starting to work on a door, so I imported a few doors to match em up.

The mansion doors and windowed doors are the same size. According to the scale I've been using those doors would be 11 feet tall by 5.325 feet wide.

 

I figured those should be approx 10 feet tall, so I changed the scale and now they are 4.841 wide.

 

If I bring it down to 8 feet tall it is 3.873 wide.

 

So you can see the delima:

First I'm not sure exactly which size it should be, but these are big in game so I'd say 10 feet.

Second, they aren't very accurate h/w. I'd think they'd want to be 10x5 or 4x8, but even dimensions at least.

 

From another modelers program, what size are these doors? Why can't all programs just default in feet? Let the euro's figure it out

 

I haven't imported any door frames yet, and maybe they are filling the fractional gap, but what if author wants to just use brushes for doorframes? Or are we aiming for using object door frames on all doors?

 

Anyway, I think it'll be nice for modelers later to have specific numbers to work with any program they choose.

[PinkDot]

I'm not sure but it looks like you're applying dromed's units for doom editing. I'm not very familiar with inches and feet units system but our AI are about 70-80 units of some kind, not around 6, as it was in Dromed.

I also work with Max and from my experience 1 cm in Max is 1 unit in Radiant.

 

And BTW it's good to make all models which you can put some other models on them (like tables, chairs etc.) with dimensions snapped to the grid in 3d application, since all models have to be snapped to the grid in Radiant as well. If they're not, then any models placed on other models will float over or clip into them.

[Baddcog]

Well, I have been able to align objects quite easily in DR by adjusting the grid size. Since I have been setting the objects on the grid (z=0), that's no problem.

 

But I'm not applying Dromed units. I used 'Generic Units' in Max: 1 = 1 dromed unit.

 

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OK, I imported the larger door. Forget about feet. I assume that that door is supposed to be 10 feet as that's how big it seems in the mansion_alpha map.

 

I set my units back to generic. Sure enough, that door is 132 units tall x 64 wide. Which is the same grid units it is in DR.

 

So from here on out I'll assume that 13.2 units = 1 foot. Close enough.

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As for door sizes, I got quite a mix when I rendomly created doors in DR.

132x64

120x57

108x60

100x50

 

Is there any kind of convention going here? Seems like it would be difficult to build around these specs. I'd think we'd want to units of 4 at least.

[Springheel]

OK, I imported the larger door. Forget about feet. I assume that that door is supposed to be 10 feet as that's how big it seems in the mansion_alpha map.

 

Those doors are bad models to use for any kind of size comparison. They were made unrealistically large to begin with, and then our AI were shrunk since then, so now they're even MORE unrealistically large.

 

The AI are your best measure of height. The guards are supposed to be approximately six feet in height, the elites perhaps a few inches above that.

[Baddcog]

OK, I've checked the elite city guard in DR.

 

He's right at 84 units tall. If 6 feet that means 14 units = 1 foot. (ah, too bad it's not 16 for ease of calculation)

I'm sure you guys don't want to resize Ai /player so this is fine with me.

 

It sounds like the doors aren't set in stone, which is good, I think it's very important to have set standard sizes for them. I almost never used anything in Dromed except 4x8. I know the grid in DR isn't as touchy, but I think same principle applies, it should be consistant and easy to use.

 

I can see standard door sizes being:

(the units conversion isn't perfect but it won't matter, it's all relative really. for instance 3.5 would be 49 units, I'll round to the most logic unit - 16's if possible to make matching with editor grid easiest)

 

7 x 3.5 feet = 96 units x 48

8 x 4 feet = 112 x 64

10 x 5 = 132 x 64 (less than 10 -looks like 10 in game easy enough -and a bit more than 4 wide)

4 x 4 = 64 x 64 (airducts, vents, ect..)

 

Of course there will be odd doors like the 'old door', due to the shape it can never be exact in height, but it should match a width.

 

Anyway, if that's cool with you Springheel, I can resize the existing doors. They will be .ase, and they obviously won't fit perfectly in existing terrain, but since they will be a different format we could try and phase the old ones out.

 

I think the doors are the biggest concern, windows can be variable size. And other arch details like chimenys won't matter. I think the doors are close enough anyway that most of the frames should be alright.

 

---EDIT---

On this note also, I think we should almost go for 16 units being a foot on other stuff.

For instance, I'm working on a spiral staircase. I spaced the stairs 8 units above each other so the top of the stairs is 256 units (16 feet) above the bottom floor. I suppose most authors are going to build on a 16 grid, not a 14. This will most likely leave everything seeming a bit tall which IMO is actually a good thing. I like it when levels feel taller and more granduer. But things like door and Ai that players interact with need to look right.

 

Of course I haven't done any mapping yet so I'd like to hear how the mappers are using grid size.

[Dram]

IMO the easiest way is to import one of the TDM models that you know well into max and do size comparing to that. That's pretty much what I do.

[Springheel]

Anyway, if that's cool with you Springheel, I can resize the existing doors. They will be .ase, and they obviously won't fit perfectly in existing terrain, but since they will be a different format we could try and phase the old ones out.

 

I'm not really the person to ask about that. It's more of a mapping issue than a modeling issue. Personally, I'm more interested in whether the doors look right than whether they fit perfectly into a certain ratio of width to height.

[Baddcog]

OK, I guess with the designation of Art Dept Lead it would be your dept. Guess I'll post in the level edit forum?

[Springheel]

It's really more of a mapping issue.