Normal map for Paintshop Pro. Suggestions?

[Fidcal]

I'll have to get into making textures eventually but I'm used to Paintshop Pro and the Nvidia normal map plug in only works up to PSP V8. I'm inclined to go back to that version as PSP X has issues anyway. Tried Photoshop some years ago and preferred Paintshop Pro. I could get Gimp but don't like to start out with a different program when I already am familiar with one that is probably (?) better just for a plug in. Still searching for the PSP normal map plug in. Anyone got this? Maybe it's the general one and not specific to PSP?

 

I've downloaded a stand along normal map generator from here....

 

http://ati.amd.com/developer/sdk/radeonSDK...olsPlugIns.html

 

Only just peeped in the zip and I see TGAtoDOT3.exe. No readme. Hate that. Anyone tried this?

 

I made a modesty screen from brushes as an extra bit of furniture. It's just hinged decorated flat panels on legs. Does it have to have a normal map?

 

This is what it looks like with temporary texture...

 

 

STOP PRESS just found a plug in for PSP 9 which I was quite happy with. Hope it works...

 

http://www.zyworld.com/redwoodtreesprite/F...PSP-ddsSave.zip

[Fidcal]

Just tried TGAtoDOT3 and it produced an output but hard for me to evaluate. The TGAtoDOT one seems to have much less contrast.

 

Here's an original TDM one...

 

 

And here's the equivalent produced by TGAtoDOT3...

 

 

There is no info with it; you just run it and browse to a TGA. Don't know if there are any command line parameters or batch processing. I don't see how it could judge contours from dark and light alone. Some textures might have a dark protrusion that presumably this would assume is a depression.

 

Looking at the wiki on normal maps I see that the plug in has more options and the wiki gives a process for softening the image first to avoid 'noise'. This would get rather labour intensive methinks?

 

Do texture makers generally evaluate each image on its own merits and manually create an intermediate image, softened (if needed) and darkening light depressions and lightening protrusions?

[Fidcal]

Separate texture question while I'm here using the same image. In my first image above at the base of the panelled wall behind the modesty screen you can see a strip maybe one foot high of a slightly different coloured wood. That shows in Dark Radiant but in-game I have corrected it with a material file fragment of which as follows...

{
blend add
map _white.tga
  color .08, .02, 0, 1 //color fraction of rgb to add
}

 

Is there a performance hit and is it recommended that I create a new texture?

 

[EDIT] Yet another question: that carpet has a white strip at both ends which seems extreme. I can cut the carpet down but just wondered what anyone else thought of it. I've seen real carpets with loose fronds/tassles at the ends but there is no particular markings on this white strip close up. I'm thinking of chopping it down.

[bob_arctor]

OK the normal map is made out of a separate file to the texture, which is entirely greyscale and so black=depression white=rise.

 

I think that thing you are using doesn't sound very good. In GIMP I can play with the texture, greyscale it, apply lightening and darkening to areas with brushes, then convert it to a normal map. When you convert it you get a preview and options for depth of normal map, which is important to get the right effect.

[Fidcal]

Maybe I should get Gimp but I just know it will take time to get used to whereas I have used PSP for years and it probably can do all those things except convert.

 

So if I understand this correctly you make a copy of your texture image, convert to greyscale then humanly judge areas and degrees of protrusion and depression, select those areas one by one and brighten/darken/contrast adjust each as appropriate, estimating how deep/dark they should be? And for gradients you would use a graded brightness?

 

I would guess most textures are 70% there if deeper areas are already darker? I suppose it depends on the texture. But it still seems an awful lot of work. Maybe it won't be so bad as I think.

 

I might try a test with this TGAtoDOT first but this time making an adjusted greyscale first as outlined above. I was comparing a normal made from the original with one made from a prepared greyscale copy. It might be if I make the contrast better then TGAtoDOT might be acceptable and a quick option for me, a non-expert.

[OrbWeaver]

You wouldn't have to actually use GIMP in place of your preferred image editor, you could just load up the TGA in the GIMP and use the Normal Map plugin as if it were a dedicated normal map application. As Bob mentioned, the visual feedback is invaluable in getting a good result.

[Fidcal]

Good point. I'll get it else I'll never know what I was missing. I might even like Gimp.

[bob_arctor]

Well Fidcal modellers can make models and make normalmaps of that.

 

I can't.

 

But for say floorboards the dark bits are going to be deeper anyhow, so it's pretty much already done.

[Capela]

Instead of a 3D program i use Photoshop, make a B&W picture of the texture to create the normal map.

 

But in this case i have to say theres a lot of detail to go by this process.

[Fidcal]

Well, I've now got Gimp up and running with the Normal Map dialog displayed. Somewhat daunted to begin with as there are so many options but very impressed when I found the 3D display and even more when I realize you can rotate to really get an impression of depth. I only just tried on an ordinary diffusemap so there's lots of noise and it failed to protrude effectively some areas that humanly I would judge stick out more. So now I'll re-read that tutorial I seen recently (on the wiki I think) about smoothing out the noise and make an in-between greyscale and brighten up one or two areas to see if that makes Gimp swell them out more.

 

Mostly I left defaults but what scale is typical? I set 50 and min Z of 0. Is that outrageous? Depends on the image?

[PinkDot]

Not to discourage you to learn GIMP, but there's another normal map making program. http://www.crazybump.com/

[Fidcal]

Crazy is right. I had actually downloaded Crazy Bump earlier on today. The only download on their site is a beta version. When run it told me that it would extract info from me and send it to their website whether I like it or not and Crazy Bump would time out at the end of the month and I am not allowed to use it beyond then! I decided not to use it at all.

[OrbWeaver]

Yeah, that CrazyBump thing is a beta version of an application that the author is planning to sell commercially, and you are just providing free beta-testing services. I wouldn't give it the time of day, no matter how good its algorithm might be.

 

Regarding the "insufficient depth" problem, all of that can be changed by varying the bump height and algorithm options in the GIMP plugin dialog.

[Fidcal]

OK, made my first real normal in Gimp! (Ahhhh! How sweet! Look darling - he made his first normal.) It's worked how I planned but not quite the result I want but I'm getting there. Also I have to solve the no-tiling problem mentioned in my other post. Not sure if I was trying to make this look like gold stitching (in which case the background needs a weave texture and the centre needs redoing) or I can 'japan' it which is that glossy black lacquer so maybe the normal would not be needed. Not sure how I'd make it shiny. 'spect I'll have to check on how to do a specular map.

 

I found some nice old 16th century art and drawings. The website said for personal use and the guys who drew them have been dead over 400 years so they should be OK to use.

 

[PinkDot]

That design is very nice indeed. To get rid off tiling you I'd just make the texture rectangular. You can change your screen panel proportion closer to 2:1, so there's no texture stretching.

Some horizontal ornaments and the top and bottom would look fine, I'd say - something close to what is now.

 

You could give some normal to background as well. It can be very subtle, but at this moment it looks unnatural. (you can blend two or more normal maps with overlay mode - I hope there's something like that in GIMP or PSP). And of course some diffuse colour.

And if you want that yellow colour to looks golden try to tint more towards browns rather than greens.

[Fidcal]

Interesting but not there yet. Fabric too coarse; some pattern detail lost. Removed tiling but not decided on whether to add anything at top and bottom. I'd like to try shiny japan effect tomorrow...

[bob_arctor]

Ah now that is coming along nicely!