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HELP Please with BETRAYAL by FieldMedic


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#1 Garrett2014

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Posted 23 September 2018 - 03:39 PM

Hi Guys, hope someone out there can help with a problem which i think is a glitch. Ive just downloaded and installed TDM 2.06 which i think is the latest version. Also im running the 64 bit version. Ive got everything turned on basically and it mostly runs well. Hoewever I have noticed many Pathfinding issues with the AI. From the Skeletons climbing walls and getting stuck behind the lift to guards running in circles and glitching with the walls. Some seem to wander from there patrol paths and cant open doors or get stuck in the inside or outside of a doorway. I just put it down to a poorly done mission but in general im enjoying it which is the main thing !

 

ANYWAY. without meaning to give too much away Im on the upper level og the top level. Im in the stairwell next to the Archbishops ? bedroom. No Curios but the one at the other end of the accomodation. Im trying to access the corridor or brridge to the church rooftop but the damn archbishop is stuck on the stair. Ive tryed everything to get past him but he just bleats for help and wont budge. Its just as the stair roof alters headspace. Perhaps the ragdol mesh or something along those lines dosent fit there. Anyway the door on the otherside, above the stairway to the citadel is locked and cant be picked and i dont have a key for it. So unless this door is also glitched in someway or ive missed the key for it then getting past the archbishop is the only way into the church atttic. 

 

I really dont know what to do at this point. It seems the top lewvel in general is the most bugged.

 

Ive noticed in the forums that theres a version refered to as v1.1 but mine dosnet mention this and i dont know where to find it if this would resolve the bugs i dont know. 

Can anyone help ?



#2 Abusimplea

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Posted 23 September 2018 - 04:26 PM

My last playtrhough of that mission was 2015. But if i remember correctly, i also had the builder priest AI (wich probably represents the archbishop) stuck at some stairs and used a gas arrow to get rid of him. You could also just noclip around him if you already used your gas arrow and/or are on a no-kill/ghost run. Else, killing him could be an option too (don't remember whether that mission has a no-kill objective).

 

The mission is from 2010 and AI always had some pathfinding issues in the tower and castle sections (but pathfinding was fine in the caves). I never saw undead actually climbing up a wall though. They just bumped into it and then turned around to go somewhere else...



#3 Garrett2014

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Posted 23 September 2018 - 04:40 PM

Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately the mission wont allow you to kill ANY LIVING THING :/ The undead are particularly bad at pathfinding in the tunnel from the Mint through past the Lift Shaft to the mine cart railway tunnel. Its Only when you have been spotted and they chase you. I think if they leave there predetermined patrol route that the wall climbing occurs. Likewise the undead in the Storage area in front of the mint will try to climb over the back of the lift if your on the otherside and get stuck there. I also notice that there are textures or a vertice missing from the corner inside the Mint so you can see the interiour of the Mission Map.

 

Ive just returned to TDM and dont recall how to use Noclip ? Can you eleborate further please as i dont wish to restart the mission at this late stage.



#4 Springheel

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Posted 23 September 2018 - 07:25 PM

Just pull down the console and type noclip.


TDM Missions:   A Score to Settle   *   A Reputation to Uphold   *   A New Job   *    A Matter of Hours
 
Video Series:   Springheel's Modules   *   Speedbuild Challenge   *   New Mappers Workshop  *   Building Traps

#5 Abusimplea

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Posted 23 September 2018 - 08:06 PM

Unfortunately the mission wont allow you to kill ANY LIVING THING :/se as i dont wish to restart the mission at this late stage.

If you have no gas arrow, you probably have to noclip then. The AI is impossible to knock out at that position.
 

The undead are particularly bad at pathfinding in the tunnel from the Mint through past the Lift Shaft to the mine cart railway tunnel. Its Only when you have been spotted and they chase you. I think if they leave there predetermined patrol route that the wall climbing occurs.

I mostly try to avoid beeing spotted by hostile AI so i might have missed that. :P
A mapper could probably fix that by adding some monsterclip around walls they try to climb.
 

I also notice that there are textures or a vertice missing from the corner inside the Mint so you can see the interiour of the Mission Map.

Might be a misplaced vertice or one of the "missing triangles" that seem to happen more often since the last TDM update. Don't worry, the game will not crash because of that (FPS might be lower than expected though).
 

Ive just returned to TDM and dont recall how to use Noclip ? Can you eleborate further please as i dont wish to restart the mission at this late stage.

The Wiki-Article about the console and usefull commands (including noclip) explains how to use the console.

Open the console and type noclip followed by enter. Then close the console and fly around carefully until you passed the builder AI. Then, while hovering above the floor inside the tunnel, open the console again and type noclip followed by enter again. Continue playing as if nothing happened.

You might also get stuck in some missions when traversing complex geometry (like piles of random stuff) if the mapper forgot to playerclip it. That situations can also be solved by using noclip.


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#6 Garrett2014

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Posted 24 September 2018 - 01:36 PM

OK Guys I'm starting to loose my temper :) Only Kidding. But seriously, whats up with this Mission. At the start it felt crude but as it progressed i got more into it but now i feel like it was rushed at the end to get released as there are so many issues. I used No clip to get past the High Priest ( why has this never been fixed ? ) and can now get into his "office" I got some loot and achieved the 2700 in gold objective but for the life of me I cant complete the "Explore the Tower further to find the source of this abnormality. On a side note quite a few doors wont open. One in the battlements, The door to the High Priests Bedroom and some others. WTF. Without NO CLIP this mission is unplayable or unfinish-able. Is this the mission or 2.06 or 64 bit issue ? If I've missed something please give me a hint. Cheers

 

Keep on Taffing and Stick to the Shadows

 

Garrett2014 

 

EDIT : I've Since completed the mission. I had over looked Griez's diary thus the afore ye mentioned "explore the tower further" part was thus ye outstanding. Overall I enjoyed the mission. It was tough and that's good but, and you knew there had to be a but. Some items are just too well hidden and its more luck or being VERY methodical in my case that got me through. I explored every nook, checked every piece of furniture etc and still missed stuff. one big oversight was overlooking the diary, obviously. Good i spent ages looking to complete that final objective but I also missed the key to the central tower. !!! So guess who had to climb all they way to the top on the outside of the tower only to come back down to get the  key to the lighthouse to turn about and go back up !!! Yup that would be me. And that was after much searching for keys, hidden hatches etc etc to find a way up. The whole thing with the High Priest really was icing on the cake though. Without knowing that your gas arrows are indispensable a player may use them on some awkward guard thus when he encounters the High Priest its a game braking, mission failing, position to be in. OK so NoClip saved they day. Alternatively old school players just restart the mission. I've no time for that these days though. So if you don't have a gas arrow your well and truly stuffed. OK Noclip as mentioned but its so immersion breaking that I hate using it, however i was so frustrated toward the end that i ended up scouting the entire map to see if i had missed anywhere. I hadn't. I think, for me, that while i liked the mission it just didn't flow well. Too many bugs, To many irritations like candles that couldn't be extinguished, doors that wouldn't open and i'm not meaning locked doors either, i mean doors that i had passed through previously but on returning later i found them inoperable. Sometimes with the handle stuck in the downward position. Guards clipping architecture during their patrol path, Guards stuck behind doors. Also the furniture inside the church lobby that clips with the inner doors when you open them. That is so obvious but yet it wasn't fixed. And many many transparent textures again spoiling immersion. I really want to give credit because I can see the work involved in this but while its a great attempt it missed the mark and was just too damn frustrating to play when there are simply do many other great maps and games out there.


Edited by Garrett2014, 24 September 2018 - 07:23 PM.


#7 Abusimplea

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Posted 24 September 2018 - 10:00 PM

But seriously, whats up with this Mission.

It is an old mission and has been made in two months for the Summer Vertical Contest 2010 (announcement thread). Some authors do update their missions after initial release - and so did Fieldmedic. But you never find all the bugs and also more bugs creep in over the years as the core game also is a moving target (although the devs try really hard to not break existing content). And most authors sadly also have a life outside TDM...

 

Maybe we should assemble a detailed list of bugs and their locations (could also scan the release thread) - and then fix what we can after getting permission from Fieldmedic.

I currently don't have much time for getting used to Dark Radiant but there is no time limit as the mission is released for some years now...

I definitely could do monsterclip - maybe even try investigating that geometry holes.

Betrayal is a good map after leaving the caves. Lots of verticality wich every wannabe Garrett loves. It definitely is worth fixing.

 

 

P.S.: You never want to waste your equipment without needing to. Especially not something as costly as a gas arrow. Also pick up your used rope and broadhead arrows before leaving - some day you might need them...






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