Deadlove

This is one of the points I'm making. If a modeler (or other skills) comes along, offer them to help finish for the intended core assets that are currently incomplete.

Don't know if I left detailed feedback, but for the simple structure. Large size. Multiple stories. Multiple locations. This mission was extremely fun. I think with a couple detail passes + a bit less square geometry it would really shine. But the most important part I present, this FM is a lot of fun to play. Thanks!

Way I understand it the stories are completely not related between the game and the dlc. So either is fine. I have New Order, haven't completed it, I didn't really get into it. Some others were posting about on another thread. They'd be more helpful, but from what I read the general consensus was Old Blood is superior.

Thanks for the history lesson. :-) Wow, I had no idea TDM started as an idea to make FMs in the tradition of what TDS FMs might be since there was no editor at the time. Truly these are "Fan Missions" - and the people who display that level of dedication to the Builder are truly fanatics. Awesome story.

This is what I was getting at when I started the thread. Our gaming enjoyment is collectively tied together in a certain way. Maybe now, an idea is emerging of a target audience to promote TDM to besides the Thief taffers.

An odd toss around of strangeness in my mind. Why is this forum called Fan Missions? Wouldn't "TDM Missions" be more fitting title? Everything here is FM, that's the only TDM missions that there are.

Hell yeh Airship! Thanks for stepping up. It would be TDM theme park / zoo / to explore. Mommy, I want to see the female human mantis model exhibit!! You guys remember that one? Or let's see the fire elemental float around! The Werebeast! The Shaman! :-)

Btw, torture me horribly, but I liked all games I played from Ion Storm, the ones applauded by critics (Deus Ex, Deadly Shadows), and I also liked the ones that got shafted by most critics (Anachronox, Daikatana). I'm a sucker for the idTech engines, another reason I am such a sucker for TDM.

Well, Skyrim, Oblivion and Morrowind are much close to the same games than Daggerfall or Arena. :-P And you'll want to burn me to the stake when I say that I think Skyrim is best of the three! :-D The games I mentioned in my original post, all their sequels are probably just as dear to my heart. I tried to stick with original titles. Some would argue SS2 and Bioshock are the same game...but, as close as they are to one another. They are as far apart from each other as DOOM 1/2/Final Doom is to DOOM 3. Bioshock Infinite is about as close to being a sequel to Bioshock as Bioshock is as close to being a sequel to SS2. Therefore, I separated them. It was HARD to decide which of the Raven games is my favorite between Heretic, Hexen, Hexen II and Heretic II. I was very excited when idTech4 came out to see if there would be some type of medieval fantasy shooter made by Raven but instead they did the Wolfenstein remake. I think the real creative minds that had the thing for fantasy and kick ass games were the ones who left the company and made PREY (Human Head Studios). Such a shame we never got an idTech4 offering from the Raven team digging deeper into the lore of the Serpent Riders. Raven did do some good work with Quake IV. Wolfenstein was fun, Singularity was okay. But it seemed ever since they were acquired by Activision the company never was able to put out a product on par with the gems that the original Heretic/Hexen series obtained.

I don't know about flash leans, but I know that in TDM if you lean into a lit area, the light gem will not light up as much as if you were to move into and stand in the lit area. So the light gem alerts the player that their presence is more exposed by leaning into a lit area, but not as much as if they were standing in the lit area.

Did moss arrows reduce damage from landing from high jumps in Thief? Or is that a TDM only thing? Great additional idea for the usage of the moss arrow as a tool.

If someone was looking for me, and I was in a place that I wasn't supposed to be, and their intent was to kill me, then yes, the voice acting in TDM is terrible, horrible, whatever have you. Horrible, as in not realistic to the situation. Which, from the way I've come to understand things, TDM strives to be a realistic immersion simulation. There is no fear instilled or intimidation. It's campy, and has more of a Benny Hill or Monty Python comic feel to it. Which, is why it makes it charming, or cute. Bridgeport doesn't remind me of a charming or cute place, but the voices of the AI sure do. That's not a knock on the voice actors, that's a knock on my suspension of disbelief being disrupted based on my perception of trespassing and stealing, and what the tone of a verbal response would be if I was suspected or being there or caught. I just don't want you making a point of deciding for me and announcing to the forum that I find the voice actors contributions as not worth it. If I thought it was trash, I wouldn't have taken the time to edit the around 7000 or so barks adding reverb to all of them. If I thought they were so horrible, I wouldn't be able to maintain playing TDM. Which, it should be obvious I find as an exciting and fun game despite its shortcomings.

This was one of the first missions I played for TDM, and if there's one thing I can say it's that as much as I didn't like having my weapons stripped from me. I was forced to rely on stealth and it made the game play style exciting because I had to learn to approach the challenges in different ways. If I remember correctly, trying to figure out the code for the lock was the reason I signed up for the forums, to ask for help! Thanks Obs! I'm going to be giving your revamped version of Old Habits a spin. From what I've read, it seems like it's been vastly overhauled.

On a more positive and helpful note, perhaps there can be an assets folder added to the core mod for all textures, models, sounds that are created but don't fit the context for the core mod, but still can have a place so others can decide if it would work well in their own FM.

I started recording a batch Pagan vocals, made them public on the forum and it was you Springs, who told me that my voice didn't fit because you didn't think that it sounded like what a TDM pagan should sound like, it sounded too much like a Thief pagan. Now what were you saying again about having someone's contributions getting shot down when they are enthusiastic to help? In regarding to begging to help, I put in days upon days of hours working revamping every vocal set adding reverb as a temporary solution to the number of people wanting reverb in TDM. The response was I did a good job but instead of including it, the powers that be decided it was best option is to wait for A3D. That was over two years ago. Shooting down a modeler (or a sound designer) cuz their work doesn't fit the core mod themes and telling them to go put in untold hours of learning DR and creating a mission themselves to include their custom sound or custom model, (when that is not their area of expertise) is not going to help, and it sure isn't the best way inspire creativity and working comradery. Please don't put words in my mouth. I would have gladly pruned 500 spambots. Noone asked for help from community when the issue arose. It was done via executive decision behind closed doors. So don't tell me I'm volunteering someone else's time, cuz you're twisting my words. The exact phrase I used was "I'd rather spend a day deleting 500 spambots." That wasn't volunteering someone else, that was me asking for responsibility, not delegating it. Don't put words in my mouth regarding the voice acting either. It is poorly, executed, that is a fact. But I stated that it gives TDM a certain charm with the bad voice acting, so don't try to make me out that I'm writing off the work that everyone put in voice acting. Calm down, have a xanax. Sure you've been around here probably the longest and this project is like a baby to you, but at this point of years doing it someone would think you've dealt with enough grievances to not respond sounding like a baby yourself. The shame of it is that I mentioned in my original post that members the board was usually good at debating the idea and not attacking the individual with the idea. You, as a long standing member around here should set a better fucking example. With leaders who think and lead like that, it's no wonder we still don't have a vocal set for the Pagan model. Sorry, the last bit was a bit was a low blow, but I would be doing myself a disservice and every member of this board a disservice if I didn't speak my mind completely. I am not at all ashamed to admit I am wrong, and it is in learning I am not the be all and end all that I can learn more myself. I'm not sorry to be making public my grievances, ad if anything people should be praised for this type of thing instead of worrying about a hatchet coming down on them or a lynching because they know TDM is great, but it's not the greatest thing since sliced bread. It's a fucking opinion. It's not gospel.

5:50 - YES! THat's what I call alchemy too!

Just to clarify, I wasn't speaking in regard to any of my attempt at contributing. I remember some guy made a model for a monster for TDM and a lot of board members liked it, but someone who has a lot of pull and has been here a long time thought it didn't fit TDM and shot the guy down. He got disgruntled and left. Basically, there was a potential modeler, who knows how to model, spent time and energy creating something and instead of adopting his model to the core mod and letting authors use it or disregard it. That was a skilled modeler who would've and could've helped in plenty of places that needed it, if the community gave him a little appreciation for his attempt at contributing, and helped point him in the right direction. I'm sure SH would like a hand with modeling, and it would greatly benefit the mod. Telling people who are enthusiastic that there contribution is of no worth is throwing away people with talent begging to help. Because of ego of what the mod is supposed to live up to being? Here is what thugs used to look like: When this project first started, the team was excited to gather assets no matter how shitty, we just wanted a game to play. Now the mod is a little too big for its britches and people are shunning what once would have been accepted in the original spirit or the project. We're still missing Pagan models. I'd be willing to bet if someone showed up and offered three Pagan models that were of the quality of the original thug model, they'd get rejected. IMO, that's so stupid! Here you have someone who is familiar with modeling, interested in it, and only going to get better and instead of bringing their skills and helping them create a more fitting model they get shunned. Do you think someone is going to come back and invest more time and energy into attempting to make more models for TDM? HELL NO. That's just another potential addition to helping the mod and taking some of the load off of the ones who are shouldering the majority of the burden. Not wise choice of way to grow an independent project. I'll be critical, the voice acting in TDM is fucking HORRIBLE. The acting is completely unbelievable. Like, TERRIBLE. It's the only thing that grounds the game from being extremely sick and twisted is the absolutely campy characters. But it's funny, and over time it has a charm to it. It's part of what makes TDM to be TDM. And I will agree with the TTLG folks that TDM AI spit out barks way too often. Once a minute is enough, I feel like every 10 seconds an AI is mumbly about something. When the PC Gamer Mod Of The Year was given to TDM the board got hit with so many spambots SH disabled the forum registration. I don't know about you guys, I'd rather spend a day deleting 500 spambots for the sake of 1000 new members than lose 1000 new members because someone didn't feel like dealing with the spam. What the fuck was the point all the publicity and attention to the mod received if the community didn't grow because of it? It was in vain, save for the ego trip some of the long time members must've felt. That's really what this board is, a bunch of lurkers, a bunch of really interested folk who fade out, and about 50 dedicated members who are active developers or mappers, etc. TDM is never going to be much more than that because of the mindset of the team. And if that's what you guys are about, more power to you. I'm just being a realist. Why did I sign up for the forum? To ask for help with walk through / FM help so I could complete a mission. It's probably the main reason any of us signed up who don't have skills with programming, modeling, textures, etc. And I will say it's an awesome community that is very friendly, down to earth and responds well in a debate situation, debating the idea, and not attacking the person (which MANY forums fail at). It makes a really nice experience to be part of this community and I'm happy it's here. It's not perfect, but nothing is. I've been watching for a while, and holding back a while. Now seemed like a good thread and time to vent my collective experience on TDM. Noone get there panties in a twist, these are just my opinions.

One thing about this......when objects clunk they only cause object sound. Example: if candle holder hits floor it makes candle holder sound but no collision sound for the surface it lands on. Just something I noticed. I'm not throwing a hissy fit and saying fix it, I'm just sharing my experience with the game.

Think a good idea to put TDM on more social networking sites for added exposure?

I'll test in meantime while I wait for another mapper to finish updates for the other map I'm helping test.

Invisible head. A chaincoif with no face would be great too. The more assets available, the better. The red skeleton head is also very nice. Good imagination there Destined!

Best donation is in the form of assets. Textures, models, sounds, etc. But be forewarned some senior members on the team have a very narrow idea of what TDM is supposed to look/feel/sound like. So expect more than not for your attempt at contributing to be shot down. Sorry, just being realistic, this is what I've seen in my time with the community.

Okay, I will download GIMP and report back. Biker seems hesitant on agreeing the door having the decal on it. I'll make it, but if it doesn't get included in the mission, it's not gonna break my heart.

Are you talking about using the Compressionator program mentioned in the texture part of TDM wiki?