snatcher

One last chance! In the two mock-ups attached to this post I am printing out each block of text a total of 9 times. In my humble opinion this is as close as we can get to a true outline. 9 times may sound excessive but I recall very complex in-game digital screens with tons of text and graphics in Doom 3 and I assume my approach cannot hinder performance in any way. I can be wrong, though. Download a pk4 and place it in your TDM root folder. Do not use quicksaves/loads, start a new mission when switching pk4. Delete the pk4 once you are done with testing. Some missions to give this a go: Seeking Lady Leicester: Intro Braeden Church: Beginning The Black Mage: Intro + Beginning A New Job: Intro + whole mission Here is a comparison in extreme situations (better to experience it in-game because of image compression): Outlined white [z_Subs_212_NoBG_Yellow_v5.pk4]: Outlined yellow [z_Subs_212_NoBG_Yellow_v5.pk4]: And also attached the original, improved version [z_Subs_212_YesBG_Geep_v4.pk4]: z_Subs_212_NoBG_Yellow_v5.pk4 z_Subs_212_NoBG_White_v5.pk4 z_Subs_212_YesBG_Geep_v4.pk4

This is how v3 look like in those situations. Verbosity isn't fully realized yet and this shouldn't happen often today but it might happen often in a year time.

The problem with (the original and) v4 is this, and there is little we room for improvement unless we go back to the drawing board

And here is v4 "Geep", based on your code from four posts above. Background enabled Text centered New graphic White color (let me know if you want to test other colors) Choose between any v3 or v4. We will take your choice to @stgatilov for a sanity check afterwards. EDIT: Download removed. Check this post for the latest version.

Yeah, I guess it is a little too late for customizable backgrounds and font color settings but you'll get there eventually Happy to assist in realizing your vision for this round.

Ok, no problem. We shall request @stgatilov's assistance in due time. I need you to evaluate yes background or no background and have a final word for 2.12. Take your time, please.

Zip re-uploaded in the above post. I forgot to remove the background.

Thank you very much, Geep. Not in my samples but mind you: I consider this a visual exercise to evaluate what looks best and decide what works and what doesn't. No guarantees in the code. Gui values must be properly reviewed once you settle on something. Find attached to this post v3 "Yellorange". Text is centered and the font color is a yellow leaning to orange, that looks like yellow in the game but it actually is more orange than yellow (for me anyway). EDIT: Download removed. Check this post for the latest version.

I am sure it is explained somewhere in the topic but mind if I ask for the technical reason?

Thank you. I understand.

Subs are not centered. Not sure if this is because of known reasons (leading / trailing spaces) or simply gui misalignment.

Ok but.

Sorry I don't know if you mean whether yellow have a positive or negative edge in that case. Without a proper thick outline issues will always popup here and there regardless of the color, white with newspapers, yellow with books or scrolls... Having a background is the safest bet, but for small recurrent pieces of text such as barks, the current background if off-putting.

Yellow have an edge, yes. We definitely can't go wrong with white. Other than the graphic, which I think I cannot innovate further, I wanted @Geep to experience his work without backgrounds. To background or not to background, a tough call for different reasons explained. Fortunately this can be modded to an extent. I provided working samples. Download a zip, unzip it and place the "gui" folder in your TDM root. Delete the "gui" folder when you are done. No, I merely print the same text three times: 1x black a tad top-left, 1x black a tad bottom-right, 1x light grey centered. I think you better experience it for yourself, and draw your own conclusions.

Thanks, @Wellingtoncrab. Yes, @Geep, @stgatilov and @datiswous are doing a great job with the subs. Having no background to rely on one may argue yellow is the worst choice since yellows are supposed to be more common in the TDM world however, from my limited testing, I detected occasional interferences with both white and yellow colors. White feels colder and yellow feels warmer. I, for some reason, find yellow more welcoming and less out of place. We could try with different shades of yellow. Find below v3 in white color for completeness sake. EDIT: Download removed. Check this post for the latest version.

How about something like this (now in yellow for a change). v3 below. EDIT: Download removed. Check this post for the latest version.

Excuse the late response. Sure: A Night in Altham (6311, -1658, 949). Go up that tall bookcase. No, it does not happen in 2.11.

There can be up to three blocks and each block can contain up to two lines of text, right? Plus the graphic at the top when appropriate, correct? If that's so then the new sample attached should be ok. I take the assumption that it is not possible to measure the length of each character and have a background that fits the the length of the text and as such, I once again removed the background but now added a kind of outline (fake drop shadow). Unfortunately the current font is sometimes thick and sometimes thin and the outline would be more effective if we had a typeface with a more consistent, thick outline. Subs are displayed by limited time and the more clear the font the faster we scan the text. I know you want the background because you are concerned some words cannot be read in some situations but my main concern is about those players that wouldn't mind having subs but end up disabling them simply because they find the whole approach too obtrusive. In my sample I went from pure white text to a light grey shade. Yellow color works quite well too for the subs. I understood what you were going for but it didn't land here. I haven't thought of alternatives for the graphic but I am impressed with some of @MirceaKitsune's gui/hud work so perhaps he can come up with different ideas. EDIT: Download removed. Check this post for the latest version.

Here's a quick hack based on your good work. I know you don't want to do without backgrounds but I couldn't help it. EDIT: Download removed. Check this post for the latest version.

It does not look good in the game, no. Subs can be disabled and all this is Work In Progress so you are perfectly excused.

Here is some feedback: This is a great addition. Thank you. I would like someday to be able to mod it and remove the restrictions via scripting. This is a great addition. Thank you! I haven't tested this yet but it sounds good. The problem I had with this is the damage you take at the end if you are not careful, spoiling any fun that may be reside in the mechanic. I don't understand this change. What's the case that triggered it? Chases many times end during or right after an "overhead mantling": there's that moment where you never know if you will get the hit or not. I always found this exciting and I never wondered whether "overhead mantling" was right or wrong, fast or slow. "Overhead mantling" has always felt right to me in any situation. My observations: Chances of being hit is reduced to almost zero now Mantling sounds have been limited to one, it sounds boring and repetitive Players can clip through ceilings in some situations It feels a little robotic, for some reason.

In a way, this already made it to TDM. It is in my game. It can be in your game as well.

Right at the bottom of my "must play long ass campaigns" list is Patriot, so I guess it counts

If I were to choose a single difference between Thief and The Dark Mod is that the former feels cold and humid whereas the latter feels cozy and warm. Different beasts.

Thanks! I shall go back there.