STiFU

You should also mention that the Radiant is the editor, which is easiest to learn editor and comes along with the possibility of a really fast workflow. Anywho, since when can you alt+tab doom3? And also, why can't you compile the map from within the editor dropdown menus? It should be no problem at all normally... I mean it should be just a simple exe file with parameters you are running there isn't it? Haven't been mapping for Doom 3 yet, so I don't know this stuff.

Gameplay mode? So you mean you could actually jump into the game directly, like in cryengine sandbox? This is definitely not possible with any Radiant. You can't even render it within the editor, like you could in T3ED. (Or have you guys changed something about that in your fork?) I guess, since it's a public beta release of the editor, you'll only get the basic editor and nothing else like textures and/or models, so you'd have to create your own stuff for now, if you woun't sign up as a betamapper...

Wow... L34t h4x0r sk1llzzzz!! To those who don't know me, no i don't post stuff like this in a serious way!!

Ahhh, now I see. Sorry. That prefix thing is definitely good, but of course most mappers should already do it by default... Since we learned that the pk4 of the map has priority, it isn't needed that much anymore though. But still, better safe than sorry!! About that pk4 name. You can still just rename it. No problem!! You just have to hope the bsp files aren't called the same. With a bit of luck yes. To make sure it works, we'd have to achieve that that special file is loaded at last so that the files inside overwrite the beforeloaded files. But again renaming the pk4 could help out...

Wasn't the intention of TDM, to make a non-crappy Thief 3? That would totally answer your question I guess. Or was it just the at first missing T3-Editor?

Fidcal, the filename of a pk4 does only matter for the loading sequence. You can even save one on your TDM folder under another name. What matters are the filenames inside the archive. Also, if you just change the difusemap (or anything else) of a shader you can still refer to the original texture files. No problem at all!! But cheers to ID. I was as suprised to hear about the "map based pk4 priority" as New Horizon, but in the end, they did a really great job on this one. Although this implies, that modders/mappers may not include map-unrelated content into their fm, like a new mainmenu, because this would be loaded before the map and could possibly overwrite the tdm-default files. (To protect this from happening TDM could prefix their pk4s with an "AAA") [bTW, nice interesting discussion here]

It does, but wouldn't you need some kind of installer for that too?? Since you need an installer either way, I got a different idea. FMs that substitute TDM-defaults could be shiped in zip format instead of pk4. A frontend tool would list both though and if it's a zip-file, simply unzip it in the TDM directory and start the mission. If it's a pk4 it would just start the map directly. Very simple and no complicated implementation...

I couldn't have said that any better. Oh wait, I did!! No, just kidding. You hit the problem on its head!! @Fidcal: Even if the file exists unzipped, the file in the pk4 has priority. It took me quite some frustrating time to notice that back in the old q3 editing days. I had my map pk3ed to sent it to a friend for testing purposes. Then I wanted to change some things but didn't see the proper effect ingame. That was really mean!! So do yourself a favor and delete those pk4s now if you test your map from time to time in that TDM install!!

I guess that will just depend on the extent of the mission. If it's just a simple map it shouldn't be a problem to launch it from a menu or even the console. But if someone decides to create his own hud, new menubackgrounds and other thief-common stuff like that, things will get more complicated, because the files in the pk4 of the mission could possibly "replace" existing ones, so that you would have the custom hud in all other FMs. (Of course, it doesn't actually replace the original files, if you delete the new pk4 again, you got your old files "restored" ) That is the only flaw of the otherwise very good pk3/pk4 system. =) I once wanted to include custom weapon skins into my quake 3 trickrun-map, but I decided against it, because the default skins would've been overwritten by mine. ID Software should really have fixed this problem by adding tag-files (or something similar) to those pk3s. Then, that system would be perfect!! So I guess, some Garrettloader kind of thing would come in handy, at least if you don't come along with a different system or proove me wrong in any way. The only thing that tool would need to do though, would be to copy the concerning pk4-file into the TDM-base directory and launch the mod with a maploading parameter.

The most amazing thing would be to map out a small-/medium-sized city which contains several missions. The player would work as a freelancer and get the missions by overhearing conversations, reading notes or just entering a certain building. Just like in a RPG or in the game "The Coup". For example, you're currently visiting a museum and see a crown which would be worth a big bag of money. So you get the objective "Find a way to enter the museum at night", which would lead to more objectives while you proceed. A dreamworld for every thief... "Find a way to blow-up the bankvault" ; "Meet XY to acquire information on how to enter the secret tunnels of YZ" I know, what I am describing here is basically a mixture of Oblivion and Thief, but it would be simply awsome in my oppinion. When I played Oblivion (as a thief of course), I always planed a coup at daytime, how to rob this and that at night. It was actually kinda fun, but the stealth elements of Oblivion were way too wonky and the movement was not ninja-like enough... (It was also really cool sometimes that you planned your coup and then at night, while performing it, you notice that you were just hunting a mockup (e.g. valuable items at the Warrior's guilds). Hehe, I laughed my ass off, when I experienced this the first time...) << Sorry for offtopic post!

Yeah, but those were small mostly...

Or you guys could just switch over to PREY and use those huge visual teleporters and build the whole city in mutliple Layers... ;)

Well, the Radiant is simply awsome compared to other leveleditors in my oppinion. I have never experienced such a high workflow in any other tool. Also you learn very early how to build very clean bsp with it. I've never had a bsphole with the radiant. (As a comparison: I had my first bsp hole in T3ED after the end of the first week ) Btw, if you guys want to check out fully explorable environment in a Racing game, go for flatout 1. Definitely THE number one game in that genre. But back to topic. I guess I am a mixture of type 2 and 3. I really like good architecture and gfx in general, but what I love is beeing rewarded for clever mantling...

Wow that really sounds amazing!!! I agree though that too much is as bad as too less. I think the first part of "Life of the Party" was kinda nice yet, but there could have been a little more explorable stuff. Let's see how your Mission will feel like. I can't wait for it!! Also it is always nice if you have to use the roadsigns for orientation in city maps. I'd love to see those in your map...

yeah hehe. TDS is a bitch! I trashed my map after half a year of work... So models are the Radiant's "static mesh" equivalent and I think I also once saw how those patches work. Kinda like splines, right? Anyway, aside from the normal map that texture is looking really good and it will probably look amazing with a proper normalmap. So let's hope to get to see an updated version of the screen.

Yeah that screen looks nice. But didn't you forget to say, that the curved support beams are static meshes too? If would be sick if you can build stuff like that all of BSP. Good work definitely! I think there is a normal map missing on the brick texture on the right though. Or it needs some tweaking, 'cause it looks way too flat...

Hehe I am not quite sure what the difference between parallax mapping and normal mapping is, but the first one looks better. I think both don't make the texture really 3d. It's only the lightning that makes it look like 3d. For example, if you pull out your flashlight on a texture the structures on it will cast shadows on the texture as if they were 3D. Relief mapping is really 3D though, but it's a BIG performance killer and it actually didn't look that good in Doom 3.

Awkward, parallaxmapping looked amazing in doom 3. But that might also have been the case because of the massive use of specular, reflection and bloom. You guys should definitely have a look at maximum graphic mod and extreme quality mod. The big ones!! (1,5Gb / 900 mb)

Right, but normal bloom costs nearly no performance afaik and Parallaxmapping is just awsome! My suggestion was anyway rather to integrate those features as options (not defaultrendermodes). I don't know how it works with the parrallaxmapping, but there are mutliple blurmods out in doom 3 and most of them can be very easily adjusted via console cmds. There are also the Mods brilliant bloom (which fakes the named HDR effects, but doesn't look that good) and AMD-Optimized-Glow (looks kinda good as well, but non configurable). With the parallaxmapping it's not that easy though I think, because you need a new interaction.vfp for every mapping technique. You could of course ship multiple interaction.vfp files to support low-end-system gfx, but also feature a stunningly fresh looking Doom 3 engine. I don't know the technical aspects of the default normal- and parallaxmapping. I think the first uses normal maps (of course) and the second uses heightmaps (right?), which would give you guys an extra amount of work, which I wouldn't want to force you to. Though those heightmaps might possibly be automatically generated like Fabio did for his Reliefmapping mod?

So aside from general HDR definitions, there woun't be any HDR. Will there be glow support instead? It was awsome in the doom 3 Maximum Graphic mod, which also came along with more reflecting metals and more specular. One further question: Parallaxmapping? Reliefmapping?

Very nice Maximus!! I think games like Silent Hill and Resident are some of the titles which can be waaaaaay too intense. There were scenes where I had to stop playing and open my shutters or switch on the lights... Damn creapy. Same with Manhunt, especially when that pigman was after you. Fuck, those games really gave me the creeps. But they were a lot of fun to play. It's not the violence that is so damn scary but the atmosphere, while Manhunt was really veeeery violent... Doom 3 had it's shocking scenes and a great atmosphere, but it will never be as scary as the horrorgames i just mentioned.

Yeah, it really works out great. Especially if you are used to that weapon layout from quake 3 online play... Was pretty much fun. Though, I still felt there were too less monsters. Should rather have been like Serious Sam in some areas. Or like good old quake 1 (which is still the #1 game in coop in my oppinion).

That's exactly the problem in the gaming industry right now. There are so few gamedevelopers trying to create something really new. They prefer to fake some of the old good-selling games just because of the money... I mean, I understand that it has become a lot harder for them nowadays because of all that software piracy and publishers cuting the money off, but meh?! Even Bethesda, the one company I always trusted in, released a very good PC-series to the xbox as well and what turns out of it? The same crap that happened to Deus Ex and Thief. (I guess you see that I am talking about Oblivion, which is nothing compared to the complexity of Morrowind. Just way too simple!!) Consoles are making games stupid!! Don't get me wrong here. Most of them are still fun, but neither as challenging nor as interesting as the really good games. Kinda highjacking the topic here, but I thought this thread is nearly dead anyway, so why not going for it?

We should rather try to teach that poor guy what is funny and what not instead of ridiculing him... Damn it, I was searching for the clip from scrubs where JD tells elliot what actually is funny, but couldn't find it! :>

All in all Prey was very intuitive, but since you didn't play quake 4 through yet, I'd rather not judge. Have you played it 'till the part where you become a strogg? Becuase from then on it's damn much fun... You move a lot faster... But I see your point. After some time Doom 3 really wasn't too frightening anymore, but still a good shooter if you like it the simple plain way! :>