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You know, I'm beginning to suspect that Arugulakamehameha thinks Doom is boring, generic, and repetitive. Which begs the question of why it was so incredibly, industry-changing-ly popular. Surely this seeming contradiction isn't due to Aru being an elitist asswipe.

Yeah. I was takling about the FM makers. What I want to prevent is this scenario that I already had a discussion with an animator. He wanted that nobody uses his animations except people who have his written permission. This is inacceptible to me for several reasons: 1) Since I spend a lot of time doing this for free, I expect the same from others who want to use it. They don't have to create content, but if they do, then the should give us the same curtesy as we did. Coming and claiming that you spent *gasp* 20 *gasp* hours of work to get one animation right and this should be reason enough that anybody has ask for permission is ridicoulous in the face of spending several years creating this. 2) If you have to ask for permission, than you can spend a lot of time hunting down who created this particular model, texture, sound etc. and finding his current email. This time is better spent creating FMs, not hunting for patent like dcoumentation. 3) Doom 3 maps are open formats by nature, so preventing some reuse would be virtually impossible anyway. 4) We want to build a library of assets FM makers can draw on, not isolated FMs where everybody has to start virtually from scratch.

Definitely yes. Even machine_steamx seems too strong for a torch. A candle being put out with that sound would be comical. To have at least two weaker ones would be preferred. Sounds like from the torchtest map, we also need a proper water arrow impact/splash sound. I believe the current one is a gruesome doom blood and guts or gibbing sound effect.

Don't count on Doom 3 being able to handle dots in filenames, in all cases I have tried it has stripped or ignored them.

I wouldn't want to see _diffuse and _specular, that is just making the names too long and harder to read. _n instead of _local sounds fine, although I don't think there's much in it either way (Doom 3 mappers will be used to _local even though its meaning is not obvious).

Listen, I know Wolfenstein came out first, but Doom popularised the whole thing and made it into a profitable marketing brand. The FPS that is. It is the father of that style of boring/repetitive generic gameplay that spawned Unreal, Serious Sam etc.

You really like to interpret messages your own way don't you? I never said I wanted it ALL the time. Also the single player maps made by fans usually sucks horribly. Just because I said I like to have some mindless shooting doesn't mean I don't care about level quality. Also I don't care what the hell I'm shooting on screen, it's just a bunch of pixels and polygons anyway. And yes, I can relax while shooting those brains out. I don't think there's any reason to argue anymore here, both sides have decided not to back out with their argument and thinks their point of view is the right. It's a loop of doom.

oDDity, I don't remember if you mentioned it, but did you play (the original) Deus Ex? If so, I'd be interested in your thoughts about it. I agree with you in almost all points. The last FPS I enjoyed was Doom 2, after that the genre got boring for me. I liked crossbreeds like System Shock or Deus Ex though, especially the latter. Deus Ex was the iteration of the FPS genre I had hope to see years earlier, but sadly, evolution pretty much stopped there. If Thief 2 was your first game*, you've missed the golden times of the C64, when a 170kb disc held 10 games with 10 different game ideas. If you don't mind pixels as big as your head, get an emulator and browse through some old games. Hell, everybody should do that, if only to see how boring the game market today really is. Edit: *Sorry, missed the "first PC game" bit. What platforms did you start with?

He didn't have to explain anything. I wasn't even saying anything about myself, I was saying that games have evolved from the crap of Doom and become more involving and interesting. Therefore we/everybody has won.

Does this mean pending Doom? Seriously. In my experience something like this often happened when someone is about to disappear. Hmmm...

Played through the demo recently. Well, I must say what I definately didn't like is DooM 3 style graphics/locations... Boring... I actually liked the afterlife place a LOT. The game has the same old boring human vs. aliens in space setting... If anyone thought the idea of a cherokee guy out there was original - the same thing in Turok 2, they had a guy from an Indian tribe who came to shoot aliens, and he had multiple healths too (I am Turok!). Regarding spirit walk - I don't look at it as something that is used to walk through weird barriers, it is actually a tactical thing. You can shoot in spirit mode completely safe. I tried that thousands of times in multiplayer - going in spirit mode to kill somebody - it is much safer. As the last resort you will at least hurt the enemy. So I really like it. Weapons are same as ever... the machine gun is weird-looking but shoots the same, and a weird scope that is hard to use, the green spitter = flack cannon, then a grenade launcher, then the plasma gun that you can load with funky stuff - the sunbeam was interesting, and there was the other machine gun + bomb as alt fire. Turok 2 still rules weaponwise. Levels are fun because of gravity tricks. Especially in multiplayer. Single player - not so much, the game is very-very linear (no, no, no, no...), not a lot of tricks. Levels look boring because we saw all that space stuff 20 times already. And no sense of direction of course, because there is only one direction you can possibly go. I don't even want to mention aliens that are at the brink of greatest boringness. And I guess my whole post is boring. Another game to spend time on... but I think Crysis will be better.

I found Painkiller to be more of a fitting spiritual successor to the original Doom. It has the similar element of the Hell theme as well.

No. You're just too thick to get past you're narrow view on the subject. The fact is Doom is the father of the generic/boring FPS.

Really? So what is evolvement of the genre then? I'm sure they weren't bothered about AI etc at the time of the original Doom. ALso Physics and such weren't important too.

I finished the highlight for doors and changed the behaviour for items as well. Now the highlighting works in a uniform way for all entities. As you can see on the screenshot it may not be to nice for ingame, so I would need a texture that can be used for the highlight. Currently I simply use this one for testing: base/textures/base_door/doorlight_grn.tga http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showt...st=0entry4929 I think the texture should probably be just a white one so that it will brighten up the object in a uniform way but with lower brightness. Probably a moderately light gray. If you want to test the texture you can do the following: I used the frobTest.map. In materials/custom.mtr you (Renzatic) added this material description and I added this texture to it. Textures/Dark_Mod/Mansion/Doors/Mansion_Door02 { qer_editorimage Textures/Dark_Mod/Mansion/Doors/Mansion_Door02_ed.tga diffusemap Textures/Dark_Mod/Mansion/Doors/Mansion_Door02_d.tga specularmap Textures/Dark_Mod/Mansion/Doors/Mansion_Door02_s.tga bumpmap Textures/Dark_Mod/Mansion/Doors/Mansion_Door02_local.tga { // if ( parm11 >= 0.5 ) blend add map textures/base_door/doorlight_grn.tga colored } }

No thanks, I have a girlfriend. No need for self gratification. As for the original Doom's gameplay, fair enough, as many people bought it and enjoyed it thus causing other companies to produce stuff similar to it. It doesn't take away the fact that gameplay for FPS has evolved from there, i.e. Halo, Half life and Far Cry, and that Doom3 is a boring, repetitive hark back to, boring repetitive style of gameplay, regardless if the number of enemies attacking you at once, or whatever has dwindled. Let's walk into a room and woah, a few seconds/paces later someone spawns behind. Whoopee, brilliant

I still haven't had a chance to look into this myself. Have you dropped into Doom 3 world? They should be able to help, I'll also take a look at the prey demo. Prey seems to have chosen to go with dds over tga as well.

Maybe, however they may have been referring to the same brand of crap, repetitive gameplay that the Doom series is famous for. As a show for their game engine, it's brilliant, but as a game it leaves a lot to be desired.

You dont get my point... You say why is it necessary for new fpss to release there is enough already? You can beat an fps many many ways(even if its linear, get the point here) but you will soon lose interest beating it as it loses its challenge. I didnt compare, i just brougt up an example, and dont overlook the condition i gave: "with the same amateur guy who never learns a thing" You see no one is really like that and thats why it wasnt really a compare,and from the point of my example they are the same anyway..A game with certain rules that you can win many ways but still doing the same thing. Just as in chess the only way to win is a checkmate in fps its shooting. SO if that dumb chess player who will never come up with any new moves would sit before you, and lets say you love playing chess, wouldnt you be happy to have someone else to play with? Your options, your moves are endless but you lose the challenge as you get to know your enemy, it gets boring..A new fps is a new chess player for you to play with..Fpss are not evolving like a real chess opponent, they are more of a new situation on the table with an enemy who has limited options, thats why they keep coming, and we're not playing doom to that day..

Just a theory too, anyone with the member number 112 is a smug, condescending, d*ckhead BTW, ZB the British press were writing along the lines that it was basically a remake of the original Doom, in premise anyway. I'll try and find an article.

I thought ID said that Doom3 was basically a remake of the original Doom ?

Doom didn't actually get a remake, it got a sequel. A "remake" would be copying the entire map set and storyline into a new engine, which in my view would be very boring.

A bit of a pity. Especially when Doom gets a remake. Great games like Thief and Deus Ex could make use of better engines aswell as improving level design etc.

Yeah, I'm getting better performance than Doom 3 on my aging 9800 Pro. Running at 1024x768, 2x AA, high detail texturezz

Oddity maybe you should take games less seriously and just use them as entertainment, not something that has to have an amazing new plot (except for adventure games which have to have that) and the all innovative gameplay. For example, I still find lots of retro games fun, it doesn't have to be all new to be that. NaaC is my current favorite: www.bloodymonkey.com - try it! And by the way playing any game is basically a waste of time. It's why they exist, to kill time until you have something better/more important to do! Like any kind of entertainment I guess. About the Prey performance, I have an X800 XL (256MB Ram version) and it runs better than Doom 3 does for me. That means pretty damn good, I didn't spot any real slowdown and I'm usually very picky about such things (I'm not one of those people that think 30fps is acceptable!). Using the latest Catalyst display drivers with Ati Tray Tools.