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The imperfections might be from little dimples in the normalmap, they're easy to fix, and it probably wouldn't hurt to make the normal a little shallower on the painting itself. Beyond that I can't think of any complaints...it's beautiful. lol, you could probably end up teaching me a few tricks with PS. Your artistic skills will really come in handy and could help me out with the bits I'm struggling with.

Well, seeing as I'm starting to get the hang of making textures, and I have some original art we can use, I'll try to come up with some painting textures. I think I'll go with the frame/painting combination approach, since making textures transparent is beyond me at the moment. I suspect we're going for a Gothic/Romantic style, artistically, for the paintings? I'll see if I can do that with some filters. If not, I may do modifications of historical pieces.

I would LOVE to have some backup on this, and your work is exceptional. As usual, it's up to the Boss Man (Fingernail), but you get a wholehearted "Please come work with us!!" from me.

The flare looks nice, but we want a flame to come out of the top of it, like a candle or lighter. The design still works though. Read up on the lighting thread in Devchat if you haven't already. Both arrow concepts have potential. I don't have a real preference. Please post them (embedded) in the Noise Arrow thread Acn2008 -- Noise Arrows.

I would like to be a part of your teem! I am a skilled Artist, and hope I can contribute to this exciting Thief stile mod! I would like to contribute my skills as a: Concept Artist Texture Artist 3D Modeler Animator I don’t have a lot of samples of my 3D work available online but you can fined sum of my Furry art here: *** Pleas Note: there is adult content*** http://vcl.ctrl-c.liu.se/vcl/Artists/Maus/ I can also email some Concept Sketches I did for Mountain Man Online Games awhile back if you would like to see it! As a relatively new artist to the game seen I need to develop more portfolio work and when I found your mod I just about freaked out! Thief is like my favorite game! And in my free time I have been working on a Java Real Time 3D, Fantasy/Steam-punk role playing game! So working on a Thief stile mod would be like a dream come true for me! I hope there is room for me on your team! Pleas test my skills and see for your self what I can do to help your project! I look forward to working with you! Thanks for your time! Regards, Maus

I'm starting to play around with Builder Priest concepts. This is the first one I've come up with, but it isn't drawn in stone. Some things I've thought about: Metal is almost a religious substance to builders, so even the priests should wear some metal. So I gave him some chains and metal shoulder plates, among other things. Hammers are their holy symbol, so even the priests should carry one, and be able to use it in melee combat if necessary (though less effectively than the guards). I presume we will want them to throw fire like the original games? That's easily done. Should they do it from their hands? A wand? Or perhaps the hammer? I was also wondering if we should give the priests other abilities? Someone mentioned a shining hammer in another thread, what if the priest could use his holy symbol to light up the area around him? Anyway, all comments welcome. Edit: Ok, a new version, Oct 11th I've made the shoulder metal smaller and more decorative. I've also given him a hat and more robe-like clothing. The strips at the bottom of the robe are decorative metal, and there are metal plates on the scarf-like things hanging from his shoulders. A ceremonial hammer completes the outfit. It could be used in combat if necessary, and could also function as his wand (which always struck me as too 'magicky' for a builder). What do you think?

I tend to feel the same way as Ren about this one. But we are going to have plenty of other character models, many of which we would certainly be willing to share. Take a look at our website: http://www.mindplaces.com/darkmod/gallery.htm. We'll be modelling both of those characters as well, not to mention many others. I'm impressed by many of the weapons you guys have come up with, especially the magic staff. Hmmm, alternatively, Deep Omega said he modelled much of the character in pieces, so maybe if he stripped off some of the more distinctive armour we could trade that one. Ultimately I think it's up to Fingernail and Deep Omega.

Of course he doesn't NEED shoulder pads. But think. This is an order of metal-workers, who worshop a god whose greatest gift to man was the ability to work metal. Even their priests would be wearing a good deal of metal, imo, not just robes. And I definitely think they should carry a hammer, even if it is fairly ceremonial. I am up for a more robe-like appearance though...I'll see what I can come up with.

Nope, it doesn't. Trust me, I do this stuff all the time. Monitors are not designed to display more than 72 dpi. If you make a drawing at 300dpi, the monitor has to increase the size of the picture because it can't squeeze any more pixels into a given space. You aren't gaining any detail at all, you're just making the picture bigger. When you PRINT a picture, a 72dpi and 300dpi come out at the same size, so the 300dpi has a better resolution. Not so with monitors. Try it yourself. Take a 300dpi image, load it in a webbrowser, and then shrink it to 72dpi and do the same thing. It will get smaller, but will not have lost any resolution.

Yeah, he really doesn't need to know anything specific...we'd probably just need the graphic image. I suppose we could come up with our own retro-thief menu...if someone would like to take that on, that would be great. Something steampunky like the T1/2 menu.

Yes, those were made about a month ago, for Thief 2D, before this project was even started. But once I get back to making these things I'll see if I can come up with a more fitting sound.

Ohh - that'll come later. I'd rather be able to have both types of faces as a valid option. Plus, the mask is super ultra easy to do, compared to lips. Painting a full face is a good practice for me.

Ok, so I thought these were supposed to come out at the same time. Where the heck is the SDK?

If I could even begin to approach your skills in Max I'd be...well...alot happier with the models I've done. Once again you've done some damn fine work, Deep. I can't wait to see what you come up with next. Edit: lol, right now it's starting to look like a cool pewter figure you'd see on someones desk...complete with all the neat accessories.

Well, I finally got my scanner to work so I thought I'd upload some concept artwork I've been working on the past week or so! Woot! Mainly just rough sketches, but hopefully helpful...? PS: Any feedback on the above is appreciated. Also, there's going to be a lot more time spent in creating lamps, lights, candles, candleholders, chairs, tables, wall patterns, stained glass windows, etc., then what was barely touched on here. Just didn't want anybody worrying. Side Note: I look at 'concept artwork' as general guidelines to help create the game. The museum sculpture stand image above, for instance, has a big magnet over it (to slowly lift the glass box when activated). This may or may not be something we want to include in the game -- it was just an idea. For example, our thief could have a goal that says "Figure out how to steal the Bafford Scultpure" or something, and our thief would then have to find a secret switch that lifts the glass enclosure up, revealing the sculpture. We may or may not want to do something like this. As well, in the concept artwork, the magnet looks like hell. I envision more care and detail going into the actual magnet if it were implemented, perhaps even hiding the fact that it's a magnet by making it look like a beautiful, ornate hood above the sculpture that provides light to the sculpture or something. So, you see, please just take my concept artwork as brainstorming sessions and possible ideas rather than an edict saying "We need to do it THIS way" or "I feel this way is the best." So, as more and more drawings come, take what you will from them for use in DarkMod. I just want them to be helpful! Cool?? Cool. PPS: The 'miscellaneous room' one was done with colored pencils. I know it's not the best clarity. Just wanted to do a rough room. I need to get myself a "digital pen" for my PC! Drawing with a mouse is kind've challenging, otherwise I'd do stuff more often on the PC.

I was thinking about putting my T2 fan mission on hold and perhaps making it a Builder cathedral with our Mod....SDK and the answers that come with it pending of course.

Wow, I'm impressed with what you've been able to do. Maybe it WON'T take half a year just for the models. Hey, where did that headless guy come from in the pic?

Here is a low-detail concept sketch for our Builder guards. Their armour has more metal in it than any other group, which I think is appropriate. This is based heavily on the concept sketches for T1. I still need to come up with the symbol for the chest plate...I'm trying to combine a hammer with either an anvil or cog. If anyone has any ideas, I'm open to suggestion.

If there is anything I'd comment on it'd be the orchestra hit sample you use in the first track, I think something that sounds a bit more lonely and eerie might fit better. Everything else sounds great, and I'd probably use it in a map or two. One thing you'll need to keep in mind is that with Thief you rarely ever have true single tracks, instead you have individual pieces that play at certain points and can mix together easily and produce something that sounds great. Like if you were to start a mission you'd only hear a bassy rumble, but as you approach the mansion you intend on breaking into you'd eventually have a weird warble sound come in on top of the rumble that'd go away if you were to back off and go return to the starting point. It's all locational...if that makes sense.

If any money were to come, I would not take a share, I don't really need anything.

Good job on the builder concept, Springheel -- and thanks for posting the historic reference material, Alexius. Hey Springheel - I added a new folder to the DarkMod FTP area called "Art-ConceptDrawings," and within that folder added a "Springheel" folder and a "Darkness_Falls" folder. This gives us our own separate playgrounds to keep track of stuff in without getting confused. Alexius, if you'll be doing concept drawings and need webspace, feel free to add a folder there. We could add other folders, too, if other artists come on board. I wanted to keep only drawings in there, but realistically we may want to re-title the folder and morph into more of a Art-ConceptArtwork area. You guys may already have webspace and don't care, but I needed the webspace.

I like what I see so far If you artist guys are using lots of reference material from the appropriate time periods, and making design desicions based on the Thief world that we want, I'm happy. Just as a suggestion - have you thought about adding bolts or screws to the logo, if you're having trouble putting a hammer with one other thing, some little things like bolts could give you more options to arrange things to look nice. After we come up with a design, we should read some "meaning" into it, eg, the cog surrounds the base of the hammer, to represent its power that spreads over everything... etc. so the Builders have more things to write about.

Thanks for the feedback, Oofnish! I'm glad you could listen to them. I think it's important to point out to everyone, though, that these were just quick samples I put toegether to find out if people thought my keyboard had the potential to help out with this project or not. The sounds were by no means supposed to be "songs," since I was just trying different sounds out on my keyboard and throwing them all together. I only spent maybe an hour or so creating all three of these files. I could've put them all in one big 10MB file, but I wanted to section it up for lower-bandwidth users. If anything, I'd classify these files as a hodge-podge of a bunch of random sounds thrown together. I did not aim to have any bit of continuity whatsoever. Aside from just general "ambience," I may also be creating stuff for menus, in-game melodies, very specific in-game situations, player movement sounds, player interaction sounds, weapon use sounds, steam-punk machinery, etc. So, by me putting these files together, it was meant to give you a simple taste of different sounds my keyboard is capable of. When the melody or sounds in my files all the sudden shift from one thing to another, it's meant to showcase the wide variety of capabilities my keyboard has. Or when a sound in file #2 all the sudden goes from runblyness to weirdness (juxtaposed) -- for example -- I was just trying different effects. This is necessary, because as a sound person, you're listening for everything 'in-between' as a possible resource to re-create and use in some way. Every little second of sound in those files could be used for something. For example, if you take 1/2 a second of a bell sound and stretch it out to 3 seconds and lower the pitch two octaves, you might be able to cut a part of that resulting sound out to create a footstep-across-grass sound or an arrow launching sound or something. (I actually don't know what sound it would make, but this is just a theoretical example to show you what I listen for when I'm listening to the above files.) I wasn't suggesting these files be used for the DarkMod either. It's simply way too early to tell, and the sounds would need to be way more polished. For sounds, in general, I think it's best to hold off creating anything final for a long time. We need to get a lot more concept artwork done and possibly create some in-game scenes before we get on the track of what ambience or loops will be used. For ambience and music, it will likely be imperative to actually play through a rough draft of the DarkMod game before deciding on which sounds/music to use. I know a lot of my inspiration will actually come when I'm walking through a level and seeing what I encounter. My imagination will run wild at that point. In the end, the clock bells you're referring to (if they're to be used) would likely be used for the game menu or an in-game scene near a clocktower or something, but it wouldn't repeat forever in a neverending looped sequence. It would maybe strike 12 times for a clocktower sequence... or maybe just a couple times for a game opening sequence or splash screen. Hopefully you won't have to worry too much -- I think I'll be pretty good at avoiding repitious sounds that shouldn't be indefinitely repetitious, or that stand out as being repitious. Oh yeah, and the piano in file #1? LOL. I threw that 'piece' together in 2 minutes. The rhythms are off and everything. I was just trying to make a somewhat coherent 'melody' that was 'vaguely' reminiscent of a piano piece that was used in Thief: Deadly Shadows. If I were to actually create a piece for DarkMod, I'd actually spend a lot more time on it than 2 minutes ... and I probably wouldn't use a piano piece from T:DS as my inspiration. Or any piano sound for that matter

Awesome. Glad to hear you have reached that stage of your artistic development. I'm really looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

I'd love to have translucent windows used. The windows in Doom 3 -- when you can look outside, for instance -- were pretty cool in that they weren't perfect. The glass was imperfect, with a warbled effect. Will come in handy to have this at our disposal for Thief's time and age.