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That's ignorant flamethrowing, and you know it. I had many friends in my teens and early twenties when I was a 'lad' and never really thought about anything, but I have deliberately distanced myself from them, because I simply have nothing in common with them these days, and their company irritates me, as does the company of my family members. The irony is that the sort of people I do have things in common with tend to be people who aren't bothered about being socially 'normal' or friendly, so they're not the sort of people who hang around together. What you mean by 'grumpy', is that I actually question things, things which have become so normal to you that you don't question them, you just do them. I don't just accept social norms and traditional responses and actions as being correct for that reason alone. I don't go through life on autopilot. The fact is that ignorant, thoughtless people are the happiest in the world, and 'grumpy' people tend to be people who think about things, because when you actually think about things, and see things for real, and don't just float though life ignoring everything you don't want to see, you realise it's all a big heap of shit. And don't talk to me about ZylonBane, he's just someone who pretends to be grumpy and sarcastic in front of noobs. Whenever a mod warns him, he rolls over and bleats like a sheep. I've been banned from many forums because I don't give a shit, and do not hide my views to become more acceptable to people.

What fucking use is empathy to someone with Alzheimer's. Some new cure I haven't heard of? IF you really cared, you'd volunteer to actually help people who have it, rather than making posts on forums saying how terrible it is. There isn't a town in the country where you couldn't go and volunteer right now to help someone. The truth is, you don't give a shit, at least not in any way that might impinge on your life or cause you the slightest inconvenience. SO don't give me this crap about how caring and empathetic you are. Selfish AND hypocrites, and you wonder why it irritates me so much.

Of course this is a slightly different case in that Pratchett is a well known fan of Thief fan missions and regularly posts (or posted) on the Thief newsgroup on FMs that he was playing, from at least 2001-2004 looking at the dates (not sure if he's posted on TTLG, if he did, it'd be under an altnick) ... you could count the number of FMs he was obviously playing and posting about and it was a lot. And more than a few TTLG, etc, people got to "know" him as well as anyone else you could know on a forum. So I think he deserves a little more regard around here, as a Thief FM fan, than other authors. Even independently of that the news is a downer if it means his output will be cut short. cf: http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13377 http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?...599#post1149599

In our case we're already a mod, and FM's are treated as "mods to the mod." Normally an FM contains a map, plus the option of overwriting things like the HUD to mod them. I suppose someone could make an "FM" that only mods things and doesn't include a map, meaning you could play the regularly included maps with that mod in place. I'm not sure if we could handle playing another FM/mod after loading a different FM mod... that's getting into mod to the mod to the mod territory, where I'm not sure how you would handle conflicts with multiple things trying to overwrite the same file. Do you know how pk4's handle it when you load one mod/pk4 with file A, then load another one with the same file A? Does it just go by whatever's loaded first, or last? You might have to inspect the contents of the mod and forbid loading two at the same time if they try to overwrite the same file. For example, if you loaded up Bob's Crazy HUD mod pk4 that overwrites the hud gui file, then tried to play Alice's Crazy Mansion FM which also contains a custom HUD.

http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?...120#post1509120 Also http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?...509#post1494509 and etc.

Is the Radiant editor that DR is based on the problem? Maybe some other people have got it working properly on Vista and have some answers on some other Radiant forums.

Output from Debug 9. Double checked. pak file: C:/games/doom3/base/game02.pk4 pak file: C:/games/doom3/base/game01.pk4 GameManager: Map path set to C:/games/doom3/darkmod/maps/ GameManager: Prefab path set to C:/games/doom3/darkmod/prefabs/ => Module GameManager initialised. Initialising module: SceneGraph => Module SceneGraph entering intialisation. SceneGraph::initialiseModule called => Module SceneGraph initialised. => Module FilterSystem entering intialisation. [filters] Loaded 15 filters from registry. => Module FilterSystem initialised. Initialising module: OpenGL => Module OpenGL entering intialisation. OpenGL::initialiseModule called. => Module OpenGL initialised. Initialising module: SelectionSystem Initialising module: Grid => Module Grid entering intialisation. GridManager::initialiseModule called. => Module Grid initialised. Initialising module: ShaderCache Initialising module: OpenGLStateLibrary => Module OpenGLStateLibrary entering intialisation. OpenGLStateLibrary::initialiseModule called. => Module OpenGLStateLibrary initialised. Initialising module: ShaderSystem => Module ShaderSystem entering intialisation. Doom3ShaderSystem::initialiseModule called => Module ShaderSystem initialised. => Module ShaderCache entering intialisation. ShaderCache::initialiseModule called. => Module ShaderCache initialised. => Module SelectionSystem entering intialisation. RadiantSelectionSystem::initialiseModule called. => Module SelectionSystem initialised. Initialising module: UndoSystem => Module UndoSystem entering intialisation. UndoSystem::initialiseModule called => Module UndoSystem initialised. => Module Doom3BrushCreator entering intialisation. BrushModuleClass::initialiseModule called. EventManager: addRegistryToggle called with TogTexLock (user/ui/brush/textureLoc k) this = 0x1ee8450 Instantiating RegistryToggle object... RegistryToggle constructor entered. Acquiring registry, calling registry...comparing adding Keyobserver. done. creating shared_ptr inserting in map... returning => Module Doom3BrushCreator initialised. Initialising module: Doom3EntityCreator => Module Doom3EntityCreator entering intialisation. Doom3EntityCreator::initialiseModule called. => Module Doom3EntityCreator initialised. Initialising module: Doom3MapLoader Initialising module: EntityClassManager => Module EntityClassManager entering intialisation. EntityClassDoom3::initialiseModule called. => Module EntityClassManager initialised. Initialising module: FileTypes => Module FileTypes entering intialisation. FileTypeRegistry::initialiseModule called. => Module FileTypes initialised. Initialising module: PatchModuleDef2 => Module PatchModuleDef2 entering intialisation. Doom3PatchDef2Creator::initialiseModule called. => Module PatchModuleDef2 initialised. Initialising module: PatchModuleDef3 => Module PatchModuleDef3 entering intialisation. Doom3PatchDef3Creator::initialiseModule called. => Module PatchModuleDef3 initialised. => Module Doom3MapLoader entering intialisation. MapDoom3API::initialiseModule called. => Module Doom3MapLoader initialised. Initialising module: ImageLoaderDDS => Module ImageLoaderDDS entering intialisation. ImageLoaderDDS::initialiseModule called. => Module ImageLoaderDDS initialised. Initialising module: ImageLoaderJPG => Module ImageLoaderJPG entering intialisation. ImageLoaderJPG::initialiseModule called. => Module ImageLoaderJPG initialised. Initialising module: ImageLoaderTGA => Module ImageLoaderTGA entering intialisation. ImageLoaderTGA::initialiseModule called. => Module ImageLoaderTGA initialised. Initialising module: Namespace => Module Namespace entering intialisation. Namespace::initialiseModule called. => Module Namespace initialised. Initialising module: ParticlesManager => Module ParticlesManager entering intialisation. ParticlesManager::initialiseModule called => Module ParticlesManager initialised. Initialising module: ReferenceCache => Module ReferenceCache entering intialisation. ReferenceCache::initialiseModule called. => Module ReferenceCache initialised. Initialising module: SoundManager => Module SoundManager entering intialisation. SoundManager::initialiseModule called => Module SoundManager initialised. Initialising module: UIManager => Module UIManager entering intialisation. UIManager::initialiseModule called Found toolbar: view Found toolbar: edit Found toolbar: texture Found toolbar: textool MenuManager: Finished loading default menu from registry. => Module UIManager initialised. => Module Radiant entering intialisation. RadiantAPI::initialiseModule called. RadiantCoreAPI: Selection_construct() RadiantCoreAPI: MultiMon_Construct() default screen has 1 monitors monitor 0 geometry: 0, 0, 1680, 1050 RadiantCoreAPI: map::PointFile::Instance().registerComma nds() RadiantCoreAPI: Map_Construct() RadiantCoreAPI: MainFrame_Construct() Registering commands...1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 (adding RegistryToggle) EventManager: addRegistryToggle called with ToggleShowSizeInfo (user/ui/xyview/s howSizeInfo) this = 0x1ee8450 Instantiating RegistryToggle object... RegistryToggle constructor entered. Acquiring registry, calling registry...comparing adding Keyobserver. done. creating shared_ptr inserting in map... returning d e f g h i j k l m n o 11 12 EventManager: addRegistryToggle called with ToggleRotationPivot (user/ui/rotatio nPivotIsOrigin) this = 0x1ee8450 Instantiating RegistryToggle object... RegistryToggle constructor entered. Acquiring registry, calling registry...comparing adding Keyobserver. done. creating shared_ptr inserting in map... returning 13 ui::TexTool::registerCommands() EventManager: addRegistryToggle called with TexToolToggleGrid (user/ui/textures/ texTool/gridActive) this = 0x1ee8450 Instantiating RegistryToggle object... RegistryToggle constructor entered. Acquiring registry, calling registry...comparing adding Keyobserver. done. creating shared_ptr inserting in map... returning Patch_registerCommands() GlobalSelectionSystem().addSelectionChan geCallback() Layout_registerPreferencesPage() GlobalEntityClassManager().attach() done RadiantCoreAPI: GlobalCamera().construct() RadiantCoreAPI: GlobalXYWnd().construct() EventManager: addRegistryToggle called with ToggleCrosshairs (user/ui/xyview/sho wCrossHairs) this = 0x1ee8450 Instantiating RegistryToggle object... RegistryToggle constructor entered. Acquiring registry, calling registry...comparing adding Keyobserver. done. creating shared_ptr inserting in map... returning EventManager: addRegistryToggle called with ToggleGrid (user/ui/xyview/showGrid) this = 0x1ee8450 Instantiating RegistryToggle object... RegistryToggle constructor entered. Acquiring registry, calling registry...comparing adding Keyobserver. done. creating shared_ptr inserting in map... returning EventManager: addRegistryToggle called with ShowAngles (user/ui/xyview/showEntit yAngles) this = 0x1ee8450 Instantiating RegistryToggle object... RegistryToggle constructor entered. Acquiring registry, calling registry...comparing adding Keyobserver. done. creating shared_ptr inserting in map... returning EventManager: addRegistryToggle called with ShowNames (user/ui/xyview/showEntity Names) this = 0x1ee8450 Instantiating RegistryToggle object... RegistryToggle constructor entered. Acquiring registry, calling registry...comparing adding Keyobserver. done. creating shared_ptr inserting in map... returning EventManager: addRegistryToggle called with ShowBlocks (user/ui/xyview/showBlock s) this = 0x1ee8450 Instantiating RegistryToggle object... RegistryToggle constructor entered. Acquiring registry, calling registry...comparing adding Keyobserver. done. creating shared_ptr inserting in map... returning EventManager: addRegistryToggle called with ShowCoordinates (user/ui/xyview/show Coordinates) this = 0x1ee8450 Instantiating RegistryToggle object... RegistryToggle constructor entered. Acquiring registry, calling registry...comparing adding Keyobserver. done. creating shared_ptr inserting in map... returning EventManager: addRegistryToggle called with ShowWindowOutline (user/ui/xyview/sh owOutline) this = 0x1ee8450 Instantiating RegistryToggle object... RegistryToggle constructor entered. Acquiring registry, calling registry...comparing adding Keyobserver. done. creating shared_ptr inserting in map... returning EventManager: addRegistryToggle called with ShowAxes (user/ui/xyview/showAxes) t his = 0x1ee8450 Instantiating RegistryToggle object... RegistryToggle constructor entered. Acquiring registry, calling registry...comparing adding Keyobserver. done. creating shared_ptr inserting in map... returning EventManager: addRegistryToggle called with ShowWorkzone (user/ui/xyview/showWor kzone) this = 0x1ee8450 Instantiating RegistryToggle object... RegistryToggle constructor entered. Acquiring registry, calling registry...comparing adding Keyobserver. done. creating shared_ptr inserting in map... returning RadiantCoreAPI: GlobalTextureBrowser().construct() EventManager: addRegistryToggle called with ShowInUse (user/ui/textures/browser/ hideUnused) this = 0x1ee8450 Instantiating RegistryToggle object... RegistryToggle constructor entered. Acquiring registry, calling registry...comparing adding Keyobserver. done. creating shared_ptr inserting in map... returning RadiantCoreAPI: Entity_Construct() EventManager: addRegistryToggle called with ToggleFreeModelRotation (user/ui/fre eModelRotation) this = 0x1ee8450 Instantiating RegistryToggle object... RegistryToggle constructor entered. Acquiring registry, calling registry...comparing adding Keyobserver. done. creating shared_ptr inserting in map... returning RadiantCoreAPI: map::AutoSaver().init() RadiantCoreAPI: done() => Module Radiant initialised. => Module EventManager entering intialisation. EventManager::initialiseModule called. EventManager: Modifiers found: 3 MouseEventManager: Buttons found: 5 MouseEventManager: XYView Definitions found: 6 MouseEventManager: Observer Definitions found: 11 MouseEventManager: Camera Definitions found: 2

There is a hardcore set of ghosters that typically hangs out at the eidos forums. their rules are simple. Don't be seen leave no evidence (other than missing loot) don't be heard above suspicioun (Is that a rat, did I hear something) basically level one alerts is the max. If an ai hears or sees you for sure (I saw you, come on out) level 2 alert than the ghost is busted. They even go so far as to complain about friendly ai in missions, because even though they are friendly, if they saw you they saw you. Personally I like to play what I call appartition mode Much like Fidcal, I'd rather not ever be seen or heard and I try not to use too many tools. But if they are alerted above level 1 I will hide and wait, not reload/retry. So at the end of the night they just think they were seeing things (must've been a ghost - the house must be haunted)

And yet you frequent forums every day to read the opinions of other people. Imagine that. I, on the other hand, want to know what other people like in their missions, being a beta mapper who plans on building a few. Which is why I started the thread. P.S. Are you guys always this grouchy? Or did you all get out the wrong side of the bed this morning?

Output from Debug 8 - double checked. crt_init() streams_init() module::ModuleRegistry::Instance().initi aliseContext(argc, argv) gtk_disable_setlocale() gtk_init() GlobalDebugMessageHandler::instance().se tHandler() ui::Splash::Instance().show() module::RegistryReference::Instance().se tRegistry() ui::Splash::Instance().setProgressAndTex t() module::getRegistry().getApplicationCont ext() ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/archivezip.dll' Module registered: ArchivePK4 ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/eclassmgr.dll' Module registered: EntityClassManager ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/entity.dll' Module registered: Doom3EntityCreator ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/entitylist.dll' Module registered: EntityList ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/eventmanager.dll' Module registered: EventManager ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/filetypes.dll' Module registered: FileTypes ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/filters.dll' Module registered: FilterSystem ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/grid.dll' Module registered: Grid ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/image.dll' Module registered: ImageLoaderTGA Module registered: ImageLoaderJPG Module registered: ImageLoaderPCX Module registered: ImageLoaderBMP Module registered: ImageLoaderDDS Module registered: ImageLoaderGDK ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/mapdoom3.dll' Module registered: Doom3MapLoader ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/md5model.dll' Module registered: ModelLoaderMD5MESH ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/model.dll' Module registered: ModelLoaderMD3 Module registered: ModelLoader3DS Module registered: ModelLoaderASE Module registered: ModelLoaderMS3D Module registered: ModelLoaderMDC Module registered: ModelLoaderMD2 Module registered: ModelLoaderFM Module registered: ModelLoaderLWO Module registered: ModelLoaderPICOTERRAIN Module registered: ModelLoaderOBJ ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/particles.dll' Module registered: ParticlesManager ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/scenegraph.dll' Module registered: SceneGraph ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/shaders.dll' Module registered: ShaderSystem ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/skins.dll' Module registered: ModelSkinCache ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/sound.dll' Module registered: SoundManager ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/uimanager.dll' Module registered: UIManager ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/undo.dll' Module registered: UndoSystem ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/vfspk3.dll' Module registered: VirtualFileSystem ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/xmlregistry.dll' Module registered: XMLRegistry ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/plugins/dm_d3hook.dll' Module registered: Doom3Hook ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/plugins/dm_objectives.dll' Module registered: ObjectivesEditor ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/plugins/dm_stimresponse.dll' Module registered: StimResponseEditor ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/plugins/eclasstree.dll' Module registered: EClassTree module::getRegistry().initialiseModules( ) Initialising module: ArchivePK4 => Module ArchivePK4 entering intialisation. ArchivePK4::initialiseModule called => Module ArchivePK4 initialised. Initialising module: Camera Initialising module: EventManager Initialising module: Radiant Initialising module: Clipper Initialising module: PreferenceSystem => Module PreferenceSystem entering intialisation. PreferenceSystem::initialiseModule called => Module PreferenceSystem initialised. Initialising module: XMLRegistry => Module XMLRegistry entering intialisation. XMLRegistry::initialiseModule called XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:/games/DarkRadiant/user.xml XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:/games/DarkRadiant/colours.xml XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:/games/DarkRadiant/input.xml XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:/games/DarkRadiant/menu.xml XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:\Users\Master\AppData\Roaming\DarkRadiant\/us er.xml XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:\Users\Master\AppData\Roaming\DarkRadiant\/in put.xml => Module XMLRegistry initialised. => Module Clipper entering intialisation. Clipper::initialiseModule called => Module Clipper initialised. Initialising module: Doom3BrushCreator Initialising module: FilterSystem Initialising module: GameManager Initialising module: VirtualFileSystem => Module VirtualFileSystem entering intialisation. VFS::initialiseModule called => Module VirtualFileSystem initialised. => Module GameManager entering intialisation. GameManager::initialiseModule called. GameManager: Scanning for game description files: C:/games/DarkRadiant/games/ XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:/games/DarkRadiant/games/doom3.game GameManager: Found game definitions: doom3 GameManager: Selected game type: doom3 vfs directory: C:/games/doom3/darkmod/ pak file: C:/games/doom3/darkmod/thiefs_den.pk4 pak file: C:/games/doom3/darkmod/darkmod.pk4 vfs directory: C:/games/doom3/base/ pak file: C:/games/doom3/base/pak008.pk4 pak file: C:/games/doom3/base/pak007.pk4 pak file: C:/games/doom3/base/pak006.pk4 pak file: C:/games/doom3/base/game03.pk4 pak file: C:/games/doom3/base/game02.pk4 pak file: C:/games/doom3/base/game01.pk4 GameManager: Map path set to C:/games/doom3/darkmod/maps/ GameManager: Prefab path set to C:/games/doom3/darkmod/prefabs/ => Module GameManager initialised. Initialising module: SceneGraph => Module SceneGraph entering intialisation. SceneGraph::initialiseModule called => Module SceneGraph initialised. => Module FilterSystem entering intialisation. [filters] Loaded 15 filters from registry. => Module FilterSystem initialised. Initialising module: OpenGL => Module OpenGL entering intialisation. OpenGL::initialiseModule called. => Module OpenGL initialised. Initialising module: SelectionSystem Initialising module: Grid => Module Grid entering intialisation. GridManager::initialiseModule called. => Module Grid initialised. Initialising module: ShaderCache Initialising module: OpenGLStateLibrary => Module OpenGLStateLibrary entering intialisation. OpenGLStateLibrary::initialiseModule called. => Module OpenGLStateLibrary initialised. Initialising module: ShaderSystem => Module ShaderSystem entering intialisation. Doom3ShaderSystem::initialiseModule called => Module ShaderSystem initialised. => Module ShaderCache entering intialisation. ShaderCache::initialiseModule called. => Module ShaderCache initialised. => Module SelectionSystem entering intialisation. RadiantSelectionSystem::initialiseModule called. => Module SelectionSystem initialised. Initialising module: UndoSystem => Module UndoSystem entering intialisation. UndoSystem::initialiseModule called => Module UndoSystem initialised. => Module Doom3BrushCreator entering intialisation. BrushModuleClass::initialiseModule called. EventManager: addRegistryToggle called with TogTexLock (user/ui/brush/textureLoc k) this = 0x1e18450 Instantiating RegistryToggle object... RegistryToggle constructor entered. Acquiring registry, calling registry...comparing adding Keyobserver. done. creating shared_ptr inserting in map... returning => Module Doom3BrushCreator initialised. Initialising module: Doom3EntityCreator => Module Doom3EntityCreator entering intialisation. Doom3EntityCreator::initialiseModule called. => Module Doom3EntityCreator initialised. Initialising module: Doom3MapLoader Initialising module: EntityClassManager => Module EntityClassManager entering intialisation. EntityClassDoom3::initialiseModule called. => Module EntityClassManager initialised. Initialising module: FileTypes => Module FileTypes entering intialisation. FileTypeRegistry::initialiseModule called. => Module FileTypes initialised. Initialising module: PatchModuleDef2 => Module PatchModuleDef2 entering intialisation. Doom3PatchDef2Creator::initialiseModule called. => Module PatchModuleDef2 initialised. Initialising module: PatchModuleDef3 => Module PatchModuleDef3 entering intialisation. Doom3PatchDef3Creator::initialiseModule called. => Module PatchModuleDef3 initialised. => Module Doom3MapLoader entering intialisation. MapDoom3API::initialiseModule called. => Module Doom3MapLoader initialised. Initialising module: ImageLoaderDDS => Module ImageLoaderDDS entering intialisation. ImageLoaderDDS::initialiseModule called. => Module ImageLoaderDDS initialised. Initialising module: ImageLoaderJPG => Module ImageLoaderJPG entering intialisation. ImageLoaderJPG::initialiseModule called. => Module ImageLoaderJPG initialised. Initialising module: ImageLoaderTGA => Module ImageLoaderTGA entering intialisation. ImageLoaderTGA::initialiseModule called. => Module ImageLoaderTGA initialised. Initialising module: Namespace => Module Namespace entering intialisation. Namespace::initialiseModule called. => Module Namespace initialised. Initialising module: ParticlesManager => Module ParticlesManager entering intialisation. ParticlesManager::initialiseModule called => Module ParticlesManager initialised. Initialising module: ReferenceCache => Module ReferenceCache entering intialisation. ReferenceCache::initialiseModule called. => Module ReferenceCache initialised. Initialising module: SoundManager => Module SoundManager entering intialisation. SoundManager::initialiseModule called => Module SoundManager initialised. Initialising module: UIManager => Module UIManager entering intialisation. UIManager::initialiseModule called Found toolbar: view Found toolbar: edit Found toolbar: texture Found toolbar: textool MenuManager: Finished loading default menu from registry. => Module UIManager initialised. => Module Radiant entering intialisation. RadiantAPI::initialiseModule called. RadiantCoreAPI: Selection_construct() RadiantCoreAPI: MultiMon_Construct() default screen has 1 monitors monitor 0 geometry: 0, 0, 1680, 1050 RadiantCoreAPI: map::PointFile::Instance().registerComma nds() RadiantCoreAPI: Map_Construct() RadiantCoreAPI: MainFrame_Construct() Registering commands...1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 (adding RegistryToggle) EventManager: addRegistryToggle called with ToggleShowSizeInfo (user/ui/xyview/s howSizeInfo) this = 0x1e18450 Instantiating RegistryToggle object... RegistryToggle constructor entered. Acquiring registry, calling registry...comparing adding Keyobserver. done. creating shared_ptr inserting in map... returning a (adding RegistryToggle) EventManager: addRegistryToggle called with ToggleShowAllLightRadii (user/ui/sho wAllLightRadii) this = 0x1e18450 Instantiating RegistryToggle object... RegistryToggle constructor entered. Acquiring registry, calling registry...comparing adding Keyobserver. done. creating shared_ptr inserting in map... returning b (adding RegistryToggle) EventManager: addRegistryToggle called with ToggleShowAllSpeakerRadii (user/ui/s howAllSpeakerRadii) this = 0x1e18450 Instantiating RegistryToggle object... RegistryToggle constructor entered. Acquiring registry, calling registry...comparing adding Keyobserver. done.

Output from debug 7. I checked it twice - the last line was the same both times. crt_init() streams_init() module::ModuleRegistry::Instance().initi aliseContext(argc, argv) gtk_disable_setlocale() gtk_init() GlobalDebugMessageHandler::instance().se tHandler() ui::Splash::Instance().show() module::RegistryReference::Instance().se tRegistry() ui::Splash::Instance().setProgressAndTex t() module::getRegistry().getApplicationCont ext() ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/archivezip.dll' Module registered: ArchivePK4 ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/eclassmgr.dll' Module registered: EntityClassManager ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/entity.dll' Module registered: Doom3EntityCreator ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/entitylist.dll' Module registered: EntityList ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/eventmanager.dll' Module registered: EventManager ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/filetypes.dll' Module registered: FileTypes ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/filters.dll' Module registered: FilterSystem ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/grid.dll' Module registered: Grid ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/image.dll' Module registered: ImageLoaderTGA Module registered: ImageLoaderJPG Module registered: ImageLoaderPCX Module registered: ImageLoaderBMP Module registered: ImageLoaderDDS Module registered: ImageLoaderGDK ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/mapdoom3.dll' Module registered: Doom3MapLoader ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/md5model.dll' Module registered: ModelLoaderMD5MESH ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/model.dll' Module registered: ModelLoaderMD3 Module registered: ModelLoader3DS Module registered: ModelLoaderASE Module registered: ModelLoaderMS3D Module registered: ModelLoaderMDC Module registered: ModelLoaderMD2 Module registered: ModelLoaderFM Module registered: ModelLoaderLWO Module registered: ModelLoaderPICOTERRAIN Module registered: ModelLoaderOBJ ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/particles.dll' Module registered: ParticlesManager ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/scenegraph.dll' Module registered: SceneGraph ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/shaders.dll' Module registered: ShaderSystem ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/skins.dll' Module registered: ModelSkinCache ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/sound.dll' Module registered: SoundManager ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/uimanager.dll' Module registered: UIManager ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/undo.dll' Module registered: UndoSystem ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/vfspk3.dll' Module registered: VirtualFileSystem ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/xmlregistry.dll' Module registered: XMLRegistry ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/plugins/dm_d3hook.dll' Module registered: Doom3Hook ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/plugins/dm_objectives.dll' Module registered: ObjectivesEditor ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/plugins/dm_stimresponse.dll' Module registered: StimResponseEditor ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/plugins/eclasstree.dll' Module registered: EClassTree module::getRegistry().initialiseModules( ) Initialising module: ArchivePK4 => Module ArchivePK4 entering intialisation. ArchivePK4::initialiseModule called => Module ArchivePK4 initialised. Initialising module: Camera Initialising module: EventManager Initialising module: Radiant Initialising module: Clipper Initialising module: PreferenceSystem => Module PreferenceSystem entering intialisation. PreferenceSystem::initialiseModule called => Module PreferenceSystem initialised. Initialising module: XMLRegistry => Module XMLRegistry entering intialisation. XMLRegistry::initialiseModule called XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:/games/DarkRadiant/user.xml XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:/games/DarkRadiant/colours.xml XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:/games/DarkRadiant/input.xml XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:/games/DarkRadiant/menu.xml XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:\Users\Master\AppData\Roaming\DarkRadiant\/us er.xml XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:\Users\Master\AppData\Roaming\DarkRadiant\/in put.xml => Module XMLRegistry initialised. => Module Clipper entering intialisation. Clipper::initialiseModule called => Module Clipper initialised. Initialising module: Doom3BrushCreator Initialising module: FilterSystem Initialising module: GameManager Initialising module: VirtualFileSystem => Module VirtualFileSystem entering intialisation. VFS::initialiseModule called => Module VirtualFileSystem initialised. => Module GameManager entering intialisation. GameManager::initialiseModule called. GameManager: Scanning for game description files: C:/games/DarkRadiant/games/ XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:/games/DarkRadiant/games/doom3.game GameManager: Found game definitions: doom3 GameManager: Selected game type: doom3 vfs directory: C:/games/doom3/darkmod/ pak file: C:/games/doom3/darkmod/thiefs_den.pk4 pak file: C:/games/doom3/darkmod/darkmod.pk4 vfs directory: C:/games/doom3/base/ pak file: C:/games/doom3/base/pak008.pk4 pak file: C:/games/doom3/base/pak007.pk4 pak file: C:/games/doom3/base/pak006.pk4 pak file: C:/games/doom3/base/game03.pk4 pak file: C:/games/doom3/base/game02.pk4 pak file: C:/games/doom3/base/game01.pk4 GameManager: Map path set to C:/games/doom3/darkmod/maps/ GameManager: Prefab path set to C:/games/doom3/darkmod/prefabs/ => Module GameManager initialised. Initialising module: SceneGraph => Module SceneGraph entering intialisation. SceneGraph::initialiseModule called => Module SceneGraph initialised. => Module FilterSystem entering intialisation. [filters] Loaded 15 filters from registry. => Module FilterSystem initialised. Initialising module: OpenGL => Module OpenGL entering intialisation. OpenGL::initialiseModule called. => Module OpenGL initialised. Initialising module: SelectionSystem Initialising module: Grid => Module Grid entering intialisation. GridManager::initialiseModule called. => Module Grid initialised. Initialising module: ShaderCache Initialising module: OpenGLStateLibrary => Module OpenGLStateLibrary entering intialisation. OpenGLStateLibrary::initialiseModule called. => Module OpenGLStateLibrary initialised. Initialising module: ShaderSystem => Module ShaderSystem entering intialisation. Doom3ShaderSystem::initialiseModule called => Module ShaderSystem initialised. => Module ShaderCache entering intialisation. ShaderCache::initialiseModule called. => Module ShaderCache initialised. => Module SelectionSystem entering intialisation. RadiantSelectionSystem::initialiseModule called. => Module SelectionSystem initialised. Initialising module: UndoSystem => Module UndoSystem entering intialisation. UndoSystem::initialiseModule called => Module UndoSystem initialised. => Module Doom3BrushCreator entering intialisation. BrushModuleClass::initialiseModule called. EventManager: addRegistryToggle called with TogTexLock (user/ui/brush/textureLoc k) Instantiating RegistryToggle RegistryToggle constructor entered. Acquiring registry, calling registry...comparing adding Keyobserver. done. inserting in map...returning => Module Doom3BrushCreator initialised. Initialising module: Doom3EntityCreator => Module Doom3EntityCreator entering intialisation. Doom3EntityCreator::initialiseModule called. => Module Doom3EntityCreator initialised. Initialising module: Doom3MapLoader Initialising module: EntityClassManager => Module EntityClassManager entering intialisation. EntityClassDoom3::initialiseModule called. => Module EntityClassManager initialised. Initialising module: FileTypes => Module FileTypes entering intialisation. FileTypeRegistry::initialiseModule called. => Module FileTypes initialised. Initialising module: PatchModuleDef2 => Module PatchModuleDef2 entering intialisation. Doom3PatchDef2Creator::initialiseModule called. => Module PatchModuleDef2 initialised. Initialising module: PatchModuleDef3 => Module PatchModuleDef3 entering intialisation. Doom3PatchDef3Creator::initialiseModule called. => Module PatchModuleDef3 initialised. => Module Doom3MapLoader entering intialisation. MapDoom3API::initialiseModule called. => Module Doom3MapLoader initialised. Initialising module: ImageLoaderDDS => Module ImageLoaderDDS entering intialisation. ImageLoaderDDS::initialiseModule called. => Module ImageLoaderDDS initialised. Initialising module: ImageLoaderJPG => Module ImageLoaderJPG entering intialisation. ImageLoaderJPG::initialiseModule called. => Module ImageLoaderJPG initialised. Initialising module: ImageLoaderTGA => Module ImageLoaderTGA entering intialisation. ImageLoaderTGA::initialiseModule called. => Module ImageLoaderTGA initialised. Initialising module: Namespace => Module Namespace entering intialisation. Namespace::initialiseModule called. => Module Namespace initialised. Initialising module: ParticlesManager => Module ParticlesManager entering intialisation. ParticlesManager::initialiseModule called => Module ParticlesManager initialised. Initialising module: ReferenceCache => Module ReferenceCache entering intialisation. ReferenceCache::initialiseModule called. => Module ReferenceCache initialised. Initialising module: SoundManager => Module SoundManager entering intialisation. SoundManager::initialiseModule called => Module SoundManager initialised. Initialising module: UIManager => Module UIManager entering intialisation. UIManager::initialiseModule called Found toolbar: view Found toolbar: edit Found toolbar: texture Found toolbar: textool MenuManager: Finished loading default menu from registry. => Module UIManager initialised. => Module Radiant entering intialisation. RadiantAPI::initialiseModule called. RadiantCoreAPI: Selection_construct() RadiantCoreAPI: MultiMon_Construct() default screen has 1 monitors monitor 0 geometry: 0, 0, 1680, 1050 RadiantCoreAPI: map::PointFile::Instance().registerComma nds() RadiantCoreAPI: Map_Construct() RadiantCoreAPI: MainFrame_Construct() Registering commands...1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 (adding RegistryToggle) EventManager: addRegistryToggle called with ToggleShowSizeInfo (user/ui/xyview/s howSizeInfo) Instantiating RegistryToggle RegistryToggle constructor entered. Acquiring registry, calling registry...comparing adding Keyobserver. done. inserting in map...returning a (adding RegistryToggle) EventManager: addRegistryToggle called with ToggleShowAllLightRadii (user/ui/sho wAllLightRadii) Instantiating RegistryToggle RegistryToggle constructor entered. Acquiring registry, calling registry...comparing adding Keyobserver. done. inserting in map...returning b (adding RegistryToggle) EventManager: addRegistryToggle called with ToggleShowAllSpeakerRadii (user/ui/s howAllSpeakerRadii) Instantiating RegistryToggle RegistryToggle constructor entered. Acquiring registry, calling registry...comparing adding Keyobserver. done.

That's excellent work, especially considering you did it in two days while still learning the editor. New Horizon is the guy to contact about applying for beta mapper status (or anything else). Email recruiting@thedarkmod.com or send a PM to New Horizon via these forums. Include a link to this thread so he has some context, and in case he hasn't seen those screenshots yet.

I thought I was helping. Here is the output for Debug 6. crt_init() streams_init() module::ModuleRegistry::Instance().initi aliseContext(argc, argv) gtk_disable_setlocale() gtk_init() GlobalDebugMessageHandler::instance().se tHandler() ui::Splash::Instance().show() module::RegistryReference::Instance().se tRegistry() ui::Splash::Instance().setProgressAndTex t() module::getRegistry().getApplicationCont ext() ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/archivezip.dll' Module registered: ArchivePK4 ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/eclassmgr.dll' Module registered: EntityClassManager ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/entity.dll' Module registered: Doom3EntityCreator ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/entitylist.dll' Module registered: EntityList ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/eventmanager.dll' Module registered: EventManager ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/filetypes.dll' Module registered: FileTypes ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/filters.dll' Module registered: FilterSystem ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/grid.dll' Module registered: Grid ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/image.dll' Module registered: ImageLoaderTGA Module registered: ImageLoaderJPG Module registered: ImageLoaderPCX Module registered: ImageLoaderBMP Module registered: ImageLoaderDDS Module registered: ImageLoaderGDK ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/mapdoom3.dll' Module registered: Doom3MapLoader ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/md5model.dll' Module registered: ModelLoaderMD5MESH ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/model.dll' Module registered: ModelLoaderMD3 Module registered: ModelLoader3DS Module registered: ModelLoaderASE Module registered: ModelLoaderMS3D Module registered: ModelLoaderMDC Module registered: ModelLoaderMD2 Module registered: ModelLoaderFM Module registered: ModelLoaderLWO Module registered: ModelLoaderPICOTERRAIN Module registered: ModelLoaderOBJ ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/particles.dll' Module registered: ParticlesManager ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/scenegraph.dll' Module registered: SceneGraph ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/shaders.dll' Module registered: ShaderSystem ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/skins.dll' Module registered: ModelSkinCache ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/sound.dll' Module registered: SoundManager ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/uimanager.dll' Module registered: UIManager ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/undo.dll' Module registered: UndoSystem ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/vfspk3.dll' Module registered: VirtualFileSystem ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/xmlregistry.dll' Module registered: XMLRegistry ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/plugins/dm_d3hook.dll' Module registered: Doom3Hook ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/plugins/dm_objectives.dll' Module registered: ObjectivesEditor ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/plugins/dm_stimresponse.dll' Module registered: StimResponseEditor ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/plugins/eclasstree.dll' Module registered: EClassTree module::getRegistry().initialiseModules( ) Initialising module: ArchivePK4 => Module ArchivePK4 entering intialisation. ArchivePK4::initialiseModule called => Module ArchivePK4 initialised. Initialising module: Camera Initialising module: EventManager Initialising module: Radiant Initialising module: Clipper Initialising module: PreferenceSystem => Module PreferenceSystem entering intialisation. PreferenceSystem::initialiseModule called => Module PreferenceSystem initialised. Initialising module: XMLRegistry => Module XMLRegistry entering intialisation. XMLRegistry::initialiseModule called XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:/games/DarkRadiant/user.xml XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:/games/DarkRadiant/colours.xml XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:/games/DarkRadiant/input.xml XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:/games/DarkRadiant/menu.xml XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:\Users\Master\AppData\Roaming\DarkRadiant\/us er.xml XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:\Users\Master\AppData\Roaming\DarkRadiant\/in put.xml => Module XMLRegistry initialised. => Module Clipper entering intialisation. Clipper::initialiseModule called => Module Clipper initialised. Initialising module: Doom3BrushCreator Initialising module: FilterSystem Initialising module: GameManager Initialising module: VirtualFileSystem => Module VirtualFileSystem entering intialisation. VFS::initialiseModule called => Module VirtualFileSystem initialised. => Module GameManager entering intialisation. GameManager::initialiseModule called. GameManager: Scanning for game description files: C:/games/DarkRadiant/games/ XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:/games/DarkRadiant/games/doom3.game GameManager: Found game definitions: doom3 GameManager: Selected game type: doom3 vfs directory: C:/games/doom3/darkmod/ pak file: C:/games/doom3/darkmod/thiefs_den.pk4 pak file: C:/games/doom3/darkmod/darkmod.pk4 vfs directory: C:/games/doom3/base/ pak file: C:/games/doom3/base/pak008.pk4 pak file: C:/games/doom3/base/pak007.pk4 pak file: C:/games/doom3/base/pak006.pk4 pak file: C:/games/doom3/base/game03.pk4 pak file: C:/games/doom3/base/game02.pk4 pak file: C:/games/doom3/base/game01.pk4 GameManager: Map path set to C:/games/doom3/darkmod/maps/ GameManager: Prefab path set to C:/games/doom3/darkmod/prefabs/ => Module GameManager initialised. Initialising module: SceneGraph => Module SceneGraph entering intialisation. SceneGraph::initialiseModule called => Module SceneGraph initialised. => Module FilterSystem entering intialisation. [filters] Loaded 15 filters from registry. => Module FilterSystem initialised. Initialising module: OpenGL => Module OpenGL entering intialisation. OpenGL::initialiseModule called. => Module OpenGL initialised. Initialising module: SelectionSystem Initialising module: Grid => Module Grid entering intialisation. GridManager::initialiseModule called. => Module Grid initialised. Initialising module: ShaderCache Initialising module: OpenGLStateLibrary => Module OpenGLStateLibrary entering intialisation. OpenGLStateLibrary::initialiseModule called. => Module OpenGLStateLibrary initialised. Initialising module: ShaderSystem => Module ShaderSystem entering intialisation. Doom3ShaderSystem::initialiseModule called => Module ShaderSystem initialised. => Module ShaderCache entering intialisation. ShaderCache::initialiseModule called. => Module ShaderCache initialised. => Module SelectionSystem entering intialisation. RadiantSelectionSystem::initialiseModule called. => Module SelectionSystem initialised. Initialising module: UndoSystem => Module UndoSystem entering intialisation. UndoSystem::initialiseModule called => Module UndoSystem initialised. => Module Doom3BrushCreator entering intialisation. BrushModuleClass::initialiseModule called. EventManager: addRegistryToggle called with TogTexLock (user/ui/brush/textureLoc k) Instantiating RegistryToggle RegistryToggle constructor entered. Acquiring registry, calling registry...comparing adding Keyobserver. done. returning => Module Doom3BrushCreator initialised. Initialising module: Doom3EntityCreator => Module Doom3EntityCreator entering intialisation. Doom3EntityCreator::initialiseModule called. => Module Doom3EntityCreator initialised. Initialising module: Doom3MapLoader Initialising module: EntityClassManager => Module EntityClassManager entering intialisation. EntityClassDoom3::initialiseModule called. => Module EntityClassManager initialised. Initialising module: FileTypes => Module FileTypes entering intialisation. FileTypeRegistry::initialiseModule called. => Module FileTypes initialised. Initialising module: PatchModuleDef2 => Module PatchModuleDef2 entering intialisation. Doom3PatchDef2Creator::initialiseModule called. => Module PatchModuleDef2 initialised. Initialising module: PatchModuleDef3 => Module PatchModuleDef3 entering intialisation. Doom3PatchDef3Creator::initialiseModule called. => Module PatchModuleDef3 initialised. => Module Doom3MapLoader entering intialisation. MapDoom3API::initialiseModule called. => Module Doom3MapLoader initialised. Initialising module: ImageLoaderDDS => Module ImageLoaderDDS entering intialisation. ImageLoaderDDS::initialiseModule called. => Module ImageLoaderDDS initialised. Initialising module: ImageLoaderJPG => Module ImageLoaderJPG entering intialisation. ImageLoaderJPG::initialiseModule called. => Module ImageLoaderJPG initialised. Initialising module: ImageLoaderTGA => Module ImageLoaderTGA entering intialisation. ImageLoaderTGA::initialiseModule called. => Module ImageLoaderTGA initialised. Initialising module: Namespace => Module Namespace entering intialisation. Namespace::initialiseModule called. => Module Namespace initialised. Initialising module: ParticlesManager => Module ParticlesManager entering intialisation. ParticlesManager::initialiseModule called => Module ParticlesManager initialised. Initialising module: ReferenceCache => Module ReferenceCache entering intialisation. ReferenceCache::initialiseModule called. => Module ReferenceCache initialised. Initialising module: SoundManager => Module SoundManager entering intialisation. SoundManager::initialiseModule called => Module SoundManager initialised. Initialising module: UIManager => Module UIManager entering intialisation. UIManager::initialiseModule called Found toolbar: view Found toolbar: edit Found toolbar: texture Found toolbar: textool MenuManager: Finished loading default menu from registry. => Module UIManager initialised. => Module Radiant entering intialisation. RadiantAPI::initialiseModule called. RadiantCoreAPI: Selection_construct() RadiantCoreAPI: MultiMon_Construct() default screen has 1 monitors monitor 0 geometry: 0, 0, 1680, 1050 RadiantCoreAPI: map::PointFile::Instance().registerComma nds() RadiantCoreAPI: Map_Construct() RadiantCoreAPI: MainFrame_Construct() Registering commands...1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 (adding RegistryToggle) EventManager: addRegistryToggle called with ToggleShowSizeInfo (user/ui/xyview/s howSizeInfo) Instantiating RegistryToggle RegistryToggle constructor entered. Acquiring registry, calling registry...comparing adding Keyobserver. done. returning a (adding RegistryToggle) EventManager: addRegistryToggle called with ToggleShowAllLightRadii (user/ui/sho wAllLightRadii) Instantiating RegistryToggle RegistryToggle constructor entered. Acquiring registry, calling registry...comparing adding Keyobserver. done. returning b (adding RegistryToggle) EventManager: addRegistryToggle called with ToggleShowAllSpeakerRadii (user/ui/s howAllSpeakerRadii) Instantiating RegistryToggle RegistryToggle constructor entered. Acquiring registry, calling registry...comparing adding Keyobserver. done. I won't be able to do any more til tomorrow now.

Output from Debug 5. I hope this is getting to the bottom of things. crt_init() streams_init() module::ModuleRegistry::Instance().initi aliseContext(argc, argv) gtk_disable_setlocale() gtk_init() GlobalDebugMessageHandler::instance().se tHandler() ui::Splash::Instance().show() module::RegistryReference::Instance().se tRegistry() ui::Splash::Instance().setProgressAndTex t() module::getRegistry().getApplicationCont ext() ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/archivezip.dll' Module registered: ArchivePK4 ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/eclassmgr.dll' Module registered: EntityClassManager ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/entity.dll' Module registered: Doom3EntityCreator ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/entitylist.dll' Module registered: EntityList ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/eventmanager.dll' Module registered: EventManager ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/filetypes.dll' Module registered: FileTypes ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/filters.dll' Module registered: FilterSystem ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/grid.dll' Module registered: Grid ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/image.dll' Module registered: ImageLoaderTGA Module registered: ImageLoaderJPG Module registered: ImageLoaderPCX Module registered: ImageLoaderBMP Module registered: ImageLoaderDDS Module registered: ImageLoaderGDK ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/mapdoom3.dll' Module registered: Doom3MapLoader ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/md5model.dll' Module registered: ModelLoaderMD5MESH ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/model.dll' Module registered: ModelLoaderMD3 Module registered: ModelLoader3DS Module registered: ModelLoaderASE Module registered: ModelLoaderMS3D Module registered: ModelLoaderMDC Module registered: ModelLoaderMD2 Module registered: ModelLoaderFM Module registered: ModelLoaderLWO Module registered: ModelLoaderPICOTERRAIN Module registered: ModelLoaderOBJ ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/particles.dll' Module registered: ParticlesManager ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/scenegraph.dll' Module registered: SceneGraph ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/shaders.dll' Module registered: ShaderSystem ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/skins.dll' Module registered: ModelSkinCache ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/sound.dll' Module registered: SoundManager ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/uimanager.dll' Module registered: UIManager ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/undo.dll' Module registered: UndoSystem ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/vfspk3.dll' Module registered: VirtualFileSystem ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/xmlregistry.dll' Module registered: XMLRegistry ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/plugins/dm_d3hook.dll' Module registered: Doom3Hook ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/plugins/dm_objectives.dll' Module registered: ObjectivesEditor ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/plugins/dm_stimresponse.dll' Module registered: StimResponseEditor ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/plugins/eclasstree.dll' Module registered: EClassTree module::getRegistry().initialiseModules( ) Initialising module: ArchivePK4 => Module ArchivePK4 entering intialisation. ArchivePK4::initialiseModule called => Module ArchivePK4 initialised. Initialising module: Camera Initialising module: EventManager Initialising module: Radiant Initialising module: Clipper Initialising module: PreferenceSystem => Module PreferenceSystem entering intialisation. PreferenceSystem::initialiseModule called => Module PreferenceSystem initialised. Initialising module: XMLRegistry => Module XMLRegistry entering intialisation. XMLRegistry::initialiseModule called XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:/games/DarkRadiant/user.xml XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:/games/DarkRadiant/colours.xml XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:/games/DarkRadiant/input.xml XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:/games/DarkRadiant/menu.xml XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:\Users\Master\AppData\Roaming\DarkRadiant\/us er.xml XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:\Users\Master\AppData\Roaming\DarkRadiant\/in put.xml => Module XMLRegistry initialised. => Module Clipper entering intialisation. Clipper::initialiseModule called => Module Clipper initialised. Initialising module: Doom3BrushCreator Initialising module: FilterSystem Initialising module: GameManager Initialising module: VirtualFileSystem => Module VirtualFileSystem entering intialisation. VFS::initialiseModule called => Module VirtualFileSystem initialised. => Module GameManager entering intialisation. GameManager::initialiseModule called. GameManager: Scanning for game description files: C:/games/DarkRadiant/games/ XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:/games/DarkRadiant/games/doom3.game GameManager: Found game definitions: doom3 GameManager: Selected game type: doom3 vfs directory: C:/games/doom3/darkmod/ pak file: C:/games/doom3/darkmod/thiefs_den.pk4 pak file: C:/games/doom3/darkmod/darkmod.pk4 vfs directory: C:/games/doom3/base/ pak file: C:/games/doom3/base/pak008.pk4 pak file: C:/games/doom3/base/pak007.pk4 pak file: C:/games/doom3/base/pak006.pk4 pak file: C:/games/doom3/base/game03.pk4 pak file: C:/games/doom3/base/game02.pk4 pak file: C:/games/doom3/base/game01.pk4 GameManager: Map path set to C:/games/doom3/darkmod/maps/ GameManager: Prefab path set to C:/games/doom3/darkmod/prefabs/ => Module GameManager initialised. Initialising module: SceneGraph => Module SceneGraph entering intialisation. SceneGraph::initialiseModule called => Module SceneGraph initialised. => Module FilterSystem entering intialisation. [filters] Loaded 15 filters from registry. => Module FilterSystem initialised. Initialising module: OpenGL => Module OpenGL entering intialisation. OpenGL::initialiseModule called. => Module OpenGL initialised. Initialising module: SelectionSystem Initialising module: Grid => Module Grid entering intialisation. GridManager::initialiseModule called. => Module Grid initialised. Initialising module: ShaderCache Initialising module: OpenGLStateLibrary => Module OpenGLStateLibrary entering intialisation. OpenGLStateLibrary::initialiseModule called. => Module OpenGLStateLibrary initialised. Initialising module: ShaderSystem => Module ShaderSystem entering intialisation. Doom3ShaderSystem::initialiseModule called => Module ShaderSystem initialised. => Module ShaderCache entering intialisation. ShaderCache::initialiseModule called. => Module ShaderCache initialised. => Module SelectionSystem entering intialisation. RadiantSelectionSystem::initialiseModule called. => Module SelectionSystem initialised. Initialising module: UndoSystem => Module UndoSystem entering intialisation. UndoSystem::initialiseModule called => Module UndoSystem initialised. => Module Doom3BrushCreator entering intialisation. BrushModuleClass::initialiseModule called. EventManager: addRegistryToggle called with TogTexLock (user/ui/brush/textureLoc k) Instantiating RegistryToggle RegistryToggle constructor entered. adding Keyobserver. done. returning => Module Doom3BrushCreator initialised. Initialising module: Doom3EntityCreator => Module Doom3EntityCreator entering intialisation. Doom3EntityCreator::initialiseModule called. => Module Doom3EntityCreator initialised. Initialising module: Doom3MapLoader Initialising module: EntityClassManager => Module EntityClassManager entering intialisation. EntityClassDoom3::initialiseModule called. => Module EntityClassManager initialised. Initialising module: FileTypes => Module FileTypes entering intialisation. FileTypeRegistry::initialiseModule called. => Module FileTypes initialised. Initialising module: PatchModuleDef2 => Module PatchModuleDef2 entering intialisation. Doom3PatchDef2Creator::initialiseModule called. => Module PatchModuleDef2 initialised. Initialising module: PatchModuleDef3 => Module PatchModuleDef3 entering intialisation. Doom3PatchDef3Creator::initialiseModule called. => Module PatchModuleDef3 initialised. => Module Doom3MapLoader entering intialisation. MapDoom3API::initialiseModule called. => Module Doom3MapLoader initialised. Initialising module: ImageLoaderDDS => Module ImageLoaderDDS entering intialisation. ImageLoaderDDS::initialiseModule called. => Module ImageLoaderDDS initialised. Initialising module: ImageLoaderJPG => Module ImageLoaderJPG entering intialisation. ImageLoaderJPG::initialiseModule called. => Module ImageLoaderJPG initialised. Initialising module: ImageLoaderTGA => Module ImageLoaderTGA entering intialisation. ImageLoaderTGA::initialiseModule called. => Module ImageLoaderTGA initialised. Initialising module: Namespace => Module Namespace entering intialisation. Namespace::initialiseModule called. => Module Namespace initialised. Initialising module: ParticlesManager => Module ParticlesManager entering intialisation. ParticlesManager::initialiseModule called => Module ParticlesManager initialised. Initialising module: ReferenceCache => Module ReferenceCache entering intialisation. ReferenceCache::initialiseModule called. => Module ReferenceCache initialised. Initialising module: SoundManager => Module SoundManager entering intialisation. SoundManager::initialiseModule called => Module SoundManager initialised. Initialising module: UIManager => Module UIManager entering intialisation. UIManager::initialiseModule called Found toolbar: view Found toolbar: edit Found toolbar: texture Found toolbar: textool MenuManager: Finished loading default menu from registry. => Module UIManager initialised. => Module Radiant entering intialisation. RadiantAPI::initialiseModule called. RadiantCoreAPI: Selection_construct() RadiantCoreAPI: MultiMon_Construct() default screen has 1 monitors monitor 0 geometry: 0, 0, 1680, 1050 RadiantCoreAPI: map::PointFile::Instance().registerComma nds() RadiantCoreAPI: Map_Construct() RadiantCoreAPI: MainFrame_Construct() Registering commands...1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 (adding RegistryToggle) EventManager: addRegistryToggle called with ToggleShowSizeInfo (user/ui/xyview/s howSizeInfo) Instantiating RegistryToggle RegistryToggle constructor entered. adding Keyobserver. done. returning a (adding RegistryToggle) EventManager: addRegistryToggle called with ToggleShowAllLightRadii (user/ui/sho wAllLightRadii) Instantiating RegistryToggle RegistryToggle constructor entered. adding Keyobserver. done. returning b (adding RegistryToggle) EventManager: addRegistryToggle called with ToggleShowAllSpeakerRadii (user/ui/s howAllSpeakerRadii) Instantiating RegistryToggle RegistryToggle constructor entered. I see you reading this topic greebo - I'm hanging on with excitement here. Is this helping?

Even so - there might be differences in the output due to other confounding factors and we should know what differences/similarities there are, no? Output from Debug 4, crt_init() streams_init() module::ModuleRegistry::Instance().initi aliseContext(argc, argv) gtk_disable_setlocale() gtk_init() GlobalDebugMessageHandler::instance().se tHandler() ui::Splash::Instance().show() module::RegistryReference::Instance().se tRegistry() ui::Splash::Instance().setProgressAndTex t() module::getRegistry().getApplicationCont ext() ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/archivezip.dll' Module registered: ArchivePK4 ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/eclassmgr.dll' Module registered: EntityClassManager ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/entity.dll' Module registered: Doom3EntityCreator ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/entitylist.dll' Module registered: EntityList ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/eventmanager.dll' Module registered: EventManager ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/filetypes.dll' Module registered: FileTypes ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/filters.dll' Module registered: FilterSystem ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/grid.dll' Module registered: Grid ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/image.dll' Module registered: ImageLoaderTGA Module registered: ImageLoaderJPG Module registered: ImageLoaderPCX Module registered: ImageLoaderBMP Module registered: ImageLoaderDDS Module registered: ImageLoaderGDK ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/mapdoom3.dll' Module registered: Doom3MapLoader ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/md5model.dll' Module registered: ModelLoaderMD5MESH ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/model.dll' Module registered: ModelLoaderMD3 Module registered: ModelLoader3DS Module registered: ModelLoaderASE Module registered: ModelLoaderMS3D Module registered: ModelLoaderMDC Module registered: ModelLoaderMD2 Module registered: ModelLoaderFM Module registered: ModelLoaderLWO Module registered: ModelLoaderPICOTERRAIN Module registered: ModelLoaderOBJ ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/particles.dll' Module registered: ParticlesManager ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/scenegraph.dll' Module registered: SceneGraph ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/shaders.dll' Module registered: ShaderSystem ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/skins.dll' Module registered: ModelSkinCache ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/sound.dll' Module registered: SoundManager ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/uimanager.dll' Module registered: UIManager ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/undo.dll' Module registered: UndoSystem ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/vfspk3.dll' Module registered: VirtualFileSystem ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/xmlregistry.dll' Module registered: XMLRegistry ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/plugins/dm_d3hook.dll' Module registered: Doom3Hook ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/plugins/dm_objectives.dll' Module registered: ObjectivesEditor ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/plugins/dm_stimresponse.dll' Module registered: StimResponseEditor ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/plugins/eclasstree.dll' Module registered: EClassTree module::getRegistry().initialiseModules( ) Initialising module: ArchivePK4 => Module ArchivePK4 entering intialisation. ArchivePK4::initialiseModule called => Module ArchivePK4 initialised. Initialising module: Camera Initialising module: EventManager Initialising module: Radiant Initialising module: Clipper Initialising module: PreferenceSystem => Module PreferenceSystem entering intialisation. PreferenceSystem::initialiseModule called => Module PreferenceSystem initialised. Initialising module: XMLRegistry => Module XMLRegistry entering intialisation. XMLRegistry::initialiseModule called XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:/games/DarkRadiant/user.xml XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:/games/DarkRadiant/colours.xml XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:/games/DarkRadiant/input.xml XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:/games/DarkRadiant/menu.xml XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:\Users\Master\AppData\Roaming\DarkRadiant\/us er.xml XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:\Users\Master\AppData\Roaming\DarkRadiant\/in put.xml => Module XMLRegistry initialised. => Module Clipper entering intialisation. Clipper::initialiseModule called => Module Clipper initialised. Initialising module: Doom3BrushCreator Initialising module: FilterSystem Initialising module: GameManager Initialising module: VirtualFileSystem => Module VirtualFileSystem entering intialisation. VFS::initialiseModule called => Module VirtualFileSystem initialised. => Module GameManager entering intialisation. GameManager::initialiseModule called. GameManager: Scanning for game description files: C:/games/DarkRadiant/games/ XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:/games/DarkRadiant/games/doom3.game GameManager: Found game definitions: doom3 GameManager: Selected game type: doom3 vfs directory: C:/games/doom3/darkmod/ pak file: C:/games/doom3/darkmod/thiefs_den.pk4 pak file: C:/games/doom3/darkmod/darkmod.pk4 vfs directory: C:/games/doom3/base/ pak file: C:/games/doom3/base/pak008.pk4 pak file: C:/games/doom3/base/pak007.pk4 pak file: C:/games/doom3/base/pak006.pk4 pak file: C:/games/doom3/base/game03.pk4 pak file: C:/games/doom3/base/game02.pk4 pak file: C:/games/doom3/base/game01.pk4 GameManager: Map path set to C:/games/doom3/darkmod/maps/ GameManager: Prefab path set to C:/games/doom3/darkmod/prefabs/ => Module GameManager initialised. Initialising module: SceneGraph => Module SceneGraph entering intialisation. SceneGraph::initialiseModule called => Module SceneGraph initialised. => Module FilterSystem entering intialisation. [filters] Loaded 15 filters from registry. => Module FilterSystem initialised. Initialising module: OpenGL => Module OpenGL entering intialisation. OpenGL::initialiseModule called. => Module OpenGL initialised. Initialising module: SelectionSystem Initialising module: Grid => Module Grid entering intialisation. GridManager::initialiseModule called. => Module Grid initialised. Initialising module: ShaderCache Initialising module: OpenGLStateLibrary => Module OpenGLStateLibrary entering intialisation. OpenGLStateLibrary::initialiseModule called. => Module OpenGLStateLibrary initialised. Initialising module: ShaderSystem => Module ShaderSystem entering intialisation. Doom3ShaderSystem::initialiseModule called => Module ShaderSystem initialised. => Module ShaderCache entering intialisation. ShaderCache::initialiseModule called. => Module ShaderCache initialised. => Module SelectionSystem entering intialisation. RadiantSelectionSystem::initialiseModule called. => Module SelectionSystem initialised. Initialising module: UndoSystem => Module UndoSystem entering intialisation. UndoSystem::initialiseModule called => Module UndoSystem initialised. => Module Doom3BrushCreator entering intialisation. BrushModuleClass::initialiseModule called. => Module Doom3BrushCreator initialised. Initialising module: Doom3EntityCreator => Module Doom3EntityCreator entering intialisation. Doom3EntityCreator::initialiseModule called. => Module Doom3EntityCreator initialised. Initialising module: Doom3MapLoader Initialising module: EntityClassManager => Module EntityClassManager entering intialisation. EntityClassDoom3::initialiseModule called. => Module EntityClassManager initialised. Initialising module: FileTypes => Module FileTypes entering intialisation. FileTypeRegistry::initialiseModule called. => Module FileTypes initialised. Initialising module: PatchModuleDef2 => Module PatchModuleDef2 entering intialisation. Doom3PatchDef2Creator::initialiseModule called. => Module PatchModuleDef2 initialised. Initialising module: PatchModuleDef3 => Module PatchModuleDef3 entering intialisation. Doom3PatchDef3Creator::initialiseModule called. => Module PatchModuleDef3 initialised. => Module Doom3MapLoader entering intialisation. MapDoom3API::initialiseModule called. => Module Doom3MapLoader initialised. Initialising module: ImageLoaderDDS => Module ImageLoaderDDS entering intialisation. ImageLoaderDDS::initialiseModule called. => Module ImageLoaderDDS initialised. Initialising module: ImageLoaderJPG => Module ImageLoaderJPG entering intialisation. ImageLoaderJPG::initialiseModule called. => Module ImageLoaderJPG initialised. Initialising module: ImageLoaderTGA => Module ImageLoaderTGA entering intialisation. ImageLoaderTGA::initialiseModule called. => Module ImageLoaderTGA initialised. Initialising module: Namespace => Module Namespace entering intialisation. Namespace::initialiseModule called. => Module Namespace initialised. Initialising module: ParticlesManager => Module ParticlesManager entering intialisation. ParticlesManager::initialiseModule called => Module ParticlesManager initialised. Initialising module: ReferenceCache => Module ReferenceCache entering intialisation. ReferenceCache::initialiseModule called. => Module ReferenceCache initialised. Initialising module: SoundManager => Module SoundManager entering intialisation. SoundManager::initialiseModule called => Module SoundManager initialised. Initialising module: UIManager => Module UIManager entering intialisation. UIManager::initialiseModule called Found toolbar: view Found toolbar: edit Found toolbar: texture Found toolbar: textool MenuManager: Finished loading default menu from registry. => Module UIManager initialised. => Module Radiant entering intialisation. RadiantAPI::initialiseModule called. RadiantCoreAPI: Selection_construct() RadiantCoreAPI: MultiMon_Construct() default screen has 1 monitors monitor 0 geometry: 0, 0, 1680, 1050 RadiantCoreAPI: map::PointFile::Instance().registerComma nds() RadiantCoreAPI: Map_Construct() RadiantCoreAPI: MainFrame_Construct() Registering commands...1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Got to go now. I'll be back in a few hours.

Do you think I have time during work hours to post essay-long rebuttals on internet forums? Some of us have jobs to do, you know! I'll outline some quick thoughts, seeing as its lunchtime over here. We seem to be mostly in agreement, it's just the wording that's causing problems. I'll ignore all that you do agree with me on. Regarding the story - as I said somewhere on the last page it doesn't have to be a complex story about an imporobable affair or whatever. Just little stories to make the characters feel more alive. Everyday, humdrum things. Perhaps someone could mention that they visited a dentist and had a tooth pulled out by some new steampunk contraption and it hurt like hell. Just little tales to add a bit of life to the mission. A sense of discovery - As I said they don't all have to be 'finding the lost city' style moments. Chopping down a banner to find an alcove, or something. I'd be suprised to find an old house without anything to find it it. Anticipation - Why should this kill the suprise? What the player finds where he's going doesn't have to be what he thought was going to be there. A twist - We'll just haveto agree to disagree on this one. But as I said before twists don't have to be big. Personally I enjoy 'em. Originality - Team members don't want me to discuss this. Keep it human - Agree to disagree. I don't like zombies and bug beasts. It's not much of a sneaking game if they just walk after you when you're caught. Haunts are fine because at least they involve some sneaking. Each to his own I guess. Rewarding Loot - As I said before realistic placement of loot and loot as a reward aren't mutually exclusive. Loot would be in hard to get areas - whoever owns the house doesn't want thieves and servants getting them after all. The loot would be where the guards are. Anyway, I think this disagreement is best resolved through the medium of level building!

Output from Debug 3. Even bigger! crt_init() streams_init() module::ModuleRegistry::Instance().initi aliseContext(argc, argv) gtk_disable_setlocale() gtk_init() GlobalDebugMessageHandler::instance().se tHandler() ui::Splash::Instance().show() module::RegistryReference::Instance().se tRegistry() ui::Splash::Instance().setProgressAndTex t() module::getRegistry().getApplicationCont ext() ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/archivezip.dll' Module registered: ArchivePK4 ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/eclassmgr.dll' Module registered: EntityClassManager ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/entity.dll' Module registered: Doom3EntityCreator ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/entitylist.dll' Module registered: EntityList ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/eventmanager.dll' Module registered: EventManager ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/filetypes.dll' Module registered: FileTypes ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/filters.dll' Module registered: FilterSystem ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/grid.dll' Module registered: Grid ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/image.dll' Module registered: ImageLoaderTGA Module registered: ImageLoaderJPG Module registered: ImageLoaderPCX Module registered: ImageLoaderBMP Module registered: ImageLoaderDDS Module registered: ImageLoaderGDK ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/mapdoom3.dll' Module registered: Doom3MapLoader ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/md5model.dll' Module registered: ModelLoaderMD5MESH ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/model.dll' Module registered: ModelLoaderMD3 Module registered: ModelLoader3DS Module registered: ModelLoaderASE Module registered: ModelLoaderMS3D Module registered: ModelLoaderMDC Module registered: ModelLoaderMD2 Module registered: ModelLoaderFM Module registered: ModelLoaderLWO Module registered: ModelLoaderPICOTERRAIN Module registered: ModelLoaderOBJ ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/particles.dll' Module registered: ParticlesManager ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/scenegraph.dll' Module registered: SceneGraph ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/shaders.dll' Module registered: ShaderSystem ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/skins.dll' Module registered: ModelSkinCache ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/sound.dll' Module registered: SoundManager ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/uimanager.dll' Module registered: UIManager ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/undo.dll' Module registered: UndoSystem ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/vfspk3.dll' Module registered: VirtualFileSystem ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/xmlregistry.dll' Module registered: XMLRegistry ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/plugins/dm_d3hook.dll' Module registered: Doom3Hook ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/plugins/dm_objectives.dll' Module registered: ObjectivesEditor ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/plugins/dm_stimresponse.dll' Module registered: StimResponseEditor ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/plugins/eclasstree.dll' Module registered: EClassTree module::getRegistry().initialiseModules( ) Initialising module: ArchivePK4 => Module ArchivePK4 entering intialisation. ArchivePK4::initialiseModule called => Module ArchivePK4 initialised. Initialising module: Camera Initialising module: EventManager Initialising module: Radiant Initialising module: Clipper Initialising module: PreferenceSystem => Module PreferenceSystem entering intialisation. PreferenceSystem::initialiseModule called => Module PreferenceSystem initialised. Initialising module: XMLRegistry => Module XMLRegistry entering intialisation. XMLRegistry::initialiseModule called XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:/games/DarkRadiant/user.xml XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:/games/DarkRadiant/colours.xml XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:/games/DarkRadiant/input.xml XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:/games/DarkRadiant/menu.xml XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:\Users\Master\AppData\Roaming\DarkRadiant\/us er.xml XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:\Users\Master\AppData\Roaming\DarkRadiant\/in put.xml => Module XMLRegistry initialised. => Module Clipper entering intialisation. Clipper::initialiseModule called => Module Clipper initialised. Initialising module: Doom3BrushCreator Initialising module: FilterSystem Initialising module: GameManager Initialising module: VirtualFileSystem => Module VirtualFileSystem entering intialisation. VFS::initialiseModule called => Module VirtualFileSystem initialised. => Module GameManager entering intialisation. GameManager::initialiseModule called. GameManager: Scanning for game description files: C:/games/DarkRadiant/games/ XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:/games/DarkRadiant/games/doom3.game GameManager: Found game definitions: doom3 GameManager: Selected game type: doom3 vfs directory: C:/games/doom3/darkmod/ pak file: C:/games/doom3/darkmod/thiefs_den.pk4 pak file: C:/games/doom3/darkmod/darkmod.pk4 vfs directory: C:/games/doom3/base/ pak file: C:/games/doom3/base/pak008.pk4 pak file: C:/games/doom3/base/pak007.pk4 pak file: C:/games/doom3/base/pak006.pk4 pak file: C:/games/doom3/base/game03.pk4 pak file: C:/games/doom3/base/game02.pk4 pak file: C:/games/doom3/base/game01.pk4 GameManager: Map path set to C:/games/doom3/darkmod/maps/ GameManager: Prefab path set to C:/games/doom3/darkmod/prefabs/ => Module GameManager initialised. Initialising module: SceneGraph => Module SceneGraph entering intialisation. SceneGraph::initialiseModule called => Module SceneGraph initialised. => Module FilterSystem entering intialisation. [filters] Loaded 15 filters from registry. => Module FilterSystem initialised. Initialising module: OpenGL => Module OpenGL entering intialisation. OpenGL::initialiseModule called. => Module OpenGL initialised. Initialising module: SelectionSystem Initialising module: Grid => Module Grid entering intialisation. GridManager::initialiseModule called. => Module Grid initialised. Initialising module: ShaderCache Initialising module: OpenGLStateLibrary => Module OpenGLStateLibrary entering intialisation. OpenGLStateLibrary::initialiseModule called. => Module OpenGLStateLibrary initialised. Initialising module: ShaderSystem => Module ShaderSystem entering intialisation. Doom3ShaderSystem::initialiseModule called => Module ShaderSystem initialised. => Module ShaderCache entering intialisation. ShaderCache::initialiseModule called. => Module ShaderCache initialised. => Module SelectionSystem entering intialisation. RadiantSelectionSystem::initialiseModule called. => Module SelectionSystem initialised. Initialising module: UndoSystem => Module UndoSystem entering intialisation. UndoSystem::initialiseModule called => Module UndoSystem initialised. => Module Doom3BrushCreator entering intialisation. BrushModuleClass::initialiseModule called. => Module Doom3BrushCreator initialised. Initialising module: Doom3EntityCreator => Module Doom3EntityCreator entering intialisation. Doom3EntityCreator::initialiseModule called. => Module Doom3EntityCreator initialised. Initialising module: Doom3MapLoader Initialising module: EntityClassManager => Module EntityClassManager entering intialisation. EntityClassDoom3::initialiseModule called. => Module EntityClassManager initialised. Initialising module: FileTypes => Module FileTypes entering intialisation. FileTypeRegistry::initialiseModule called. => Module FileTypes initialised. Initialising module: PatchModuleDef2 => Module PatchModuleDef2 entering intialisation. Doom3PatchDef2Creator::initialiseModule called. => Module PatchModuleDef2 initialised. Initialising module: PatchModuleDef3 => Module PatchModuleDef3 entering intialisation. Doom3PatchDef3Creator::initialiseModule called. => Module PatchModuleDef3 initialised. => Module Doom3MapLoader entering intialisation. MapDoom3API::initialiseModule called. => Module Doom3MapLoader initialised. Initialising module: ImageLoaderDDS => Module ImageLoaderDDS entering intialisation. ImageLoaderDDS::initialiseModule called. => Module ImageLoaderDDS initialised. Initialising module: ImageLoaderJPG => Module ImageLoaderJPG entering intialisation. ImageLoaderJPG::initialiseModule called. => Module ImageLoaderJPG initialised. Initialising module: ImageLoaderTGA => Module ImageLoaderTGA entering intialisation. ImageLoaderTGA::initialiseModule called. => Module ImageLoaderTGA initialised. Initialising module: Namespace => Module Namespace entering intialisation. Namespace::initialiseModule called. => Module Namespace initialised. Initialising module: ParticlesManager => Module ParticlesManager entering intialisation. ParticlesManager::initialiseModule called => Module ParticlesManager initialised. Initialising module: ReferenceCache => Module ReferenceCache entering intialisation. ReferenceCache::initialiseModule called. => Module ReferenceCache initialised. Initialising module: SoundManager => Module SoundManager entering intialisation. SoundManager::initialiseModule called => Module SoundManager initialised. Initialising module: UIManager => Module UIManager entering intialisation. UIManager::initialiseModule called Found toolbar: view Found toolbar: edit Found toolbar: texture Found toolbar: textool MenuManager: Finished loading default menu from registry. => Module UIManager initialised. => Module Radiant entering intialisation. RadiantAPI::initialiseModule called. RadiantCoreAPI: Selection_construct() RadiantCoreAPI: MultiMon_Construct() default screen has 1 monitors monitor 0 geometry: 0, 0, 1680, 1050 RadiantCoreAPI: map::PointFile::Instance().registerComma nds() RadiantCoreAPI: Map_Construct() RadiantCoreAPI: MainFrame_Construct() Shouldn't oDDity also test this to see if we get the same thing? He's running a 64bit version of Vista, whilst I'm running it at 32bit.

Output from Debug 2. It's much bigger! crt_init() streams_init() module::ModuleRegistry::Instance().initi aliseContext(argc, argv) gtk_disable_setlocale() gtk_init() GlobalDebugMessageHandler::instance().se tHandler() ui::Splash::Instance().show() module::RegistryReference::Instance().se tRegistry() ui::Splash::Instance().setProgressAndTex t() module::getRegistry().getApplicationCont ext() ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/archivezip.dll' Module registered: ArchivePK4 ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/eclassmgr.dll' Module registered: EntityClassManager ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/entity.dll' Module registered: Doom3EntityCreator ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/entitylist.dll' Module registered: EntityList ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/eventmanager.dll' Module registered: EventManager ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/filetypes.dll' Module registered: FileTypes ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/filters.dll' Module registered: FilterSystem ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/grid.dll' Module registered: Grid ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/image.dll' Module registered: ImageLoaderTGA Module registered: ImageLoaderJPG Module registered: ImageLoaderPCX Module registered: ImageLoaderBMP Module registered: ImageLoaderDDS Module registered: ImageLoaderGDK ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/mapdoom3.dll' Module registered: Doom3MapLoader ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/md5model.dll' Module registered: ModelLoaderMD5MESH ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/model.dll' Module registered: ModelLoaderMD3 Module registered: ModelLoader3DS Module registered: ModelLoaderASE Module registered: ModelLoaderMS3D Module registered: ModelLoaderMDC Module registered: ModelLoaderMD2 Module registered: ModelLoaderFM Module registered: ModelLoaderLWO Module registered: ModelLoaderPICOTERRAIN Module registered: ModelLoaderOBJ ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/particles.dll' Module registered: ParticlesManager ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/scenegraph.dll' Module registered: SceneGraph ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/shaders.dll' Module registered: ShaderSystem ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/skins.dll' Module registered: ModelSkinCache ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/sound.dll' Module registered: SoundManager ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/uimanager.dll' Module registered: UIManager ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/undo.dll' Module registered: UndoSystem ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/vfspk3.dll' Module registered: VirtualFileSystem ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/modules/xmlregistry.dll' Module registered: XMLRegistry ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/plugins/dm_d3hook.dll' Module registered: Doom3Hook ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/plugins/dm_objectives.dll' Module registered: ObjectivesEditor ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/plugins/dm_stimresponse.dll' Module registered: StimResponseEditor ModuleLoader: Loading module 'C:/games/DarkRadiant/plugins/eclasstree.dll' Module registered: EClassTree module::getRegistry().initialiseModules( ) Initialising module: ArchivePK4 => Module ArchivePK4 entering intialisation. ArchivePK4::initialiseModule called => Module ArchivePK4 initialised. Initialising module: Camera Initialising module: EventManager Initialising module: Radiant Initialising module: Clipper Initialising module: PreferenceSystem => Module PreferenceSystem entering intialisation. PreferenceSystem::initialiseModule called => Module PreferenceSystem initialised. Initialising module: XMLRegistry => Module XMLRegistry entering intialisation. XMLRegistry::initialiseModule called XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:/games/DarkRadiant/user.xml XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:/games/DarkRadiant/colours.xml XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:/games/DarkRadiant/input.xml XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:/games/DarkRadiant/menu.xml XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:\Users\Master\AppData\Roaming\DarkRadiant\/us er.xml XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:\Users\Master\AppData\Roaming\DarkRadiant\/in put.xml => Module XMLRegistry initialised. => Module Clipper entering intialisation. Clipper::initialiseModule called => Module Clipper initialised. Initialising module: Doom3BrushCreator Initialising module: FilterSystem Initialising module: GameManager Initialising module: VirtualFileSystem => Module VirtualFileSystem entering intialisation. VFS::initialiseModule called => Module VirtualFileSystem initialised. => Module GameManager entering intialisation. GameManager::initialiseModule called. GameManager: Scanning for game description files: C:/games/DarkRadiant/games/ XMLRegistry: Importing XML file: C:/games/DarkRadiant/games/doom3.game GameManager: Found game definitions: doom3 GameManager: Selected game type: doom3 vfs directory: C:/games/doom3/darkmod/ pak file: C:/games/doom3/darkmod/thiefs_den.pk4 pak file: C:/games/doom3/darkmod/darkmod.pk4 vfs directory: C:/games/doom3/base/ pak file: C:/games/doom3/base/pak008.pk4 pak file: C:/games/doom3/base/pak007.pk4 pak file: C:/games/doom3/base/pak006.pk4 pak file: C:/games/doom3/base/game03.pk4 pak file: C:/games/doom3/base/game02.pk4 pak file: C:/games/doom3/base/game01.pk4 GameManager: Map path set to C:/games/doom3/darkmod/maps/ GameManager: Prefab path set to C:/games/doom3/darkmod/prefabs/ => Module GameManager initialised. Initialising module: SceneGraph => Module SceneGraph entering intialisation. SceneGraph::initialiseModule called => Module SceneGraph initialised. => Module FilterSystem entering intialisation. [filters] Loaded 15 filters from registry. => Module FilterSystem initialised. Initialising module: OpenGL => Module OpenGL entering intialisation. OpenGL::initialiseModule called. => Module OpenGL initialised. Initialising module: SelectionSystem Initialising module: Grid => Module Grid entering intialisation. GridManager::initialiseModule called. => Module Grid initialised. Initialising module: ShaderCache Initialising module: OpenGLStateLibrary => Module OpenGLStateLibrary entering intialisation. OpenGLStateLibrary::initialiseModule called. => Module OpenGLStateLibrary initialised. Initialising module: ShaderSystem => Module ShaderSystem entering intialisation. Doom3ShaderSystem::initialiseModule called => Module ShaderSystem initialised. => Module ShaderCache entering intialisation. ShaderCache::initialiseModule called. => Module ShaderCache initialised. => Module SelectionSystem entering intialisation. RadiantSelectionSystem::initialiseModule called. => Module SelectionSystem initialised. Initialising module: UndoSystem => Module UndoSystem entering intialisation. UndoSystem::initialiseModule called => Module UndoSystem initialised. => Module Doom3BrushCreator entering intialisation. BrushModuleClass::initialiseModule called. => Module Doom3BrushCreator initialised. Initialising module: Doom3EntityCreator => Module Doom3EntityCreator entering intialisation. Doom3EntityCreator::initialiseModule called. => Module Doom3EntityCreator initialised. Initialising module: Doom3MapLoader Initialising module: EntityClassManager => Module EntityClassManager entering intialisation. EntityClassDoom3::initialiseModule called. => Module EntityClassManager initialised. Initialising module: FileTypes => Module FileTypes entering intialisation. FileTypeRegistry::initialiseModule called. => Module FileTypes initialised. Initialising module: PatchModuleDef2 => Module PatchModuleDef2 entering intialisation. Doom3PatchDef2Creator::initialiseModule called. => Module PatchModuleDef2 initialised. Initialising module: PatchModuleDef3 => Module PatchModuleDef3 entering intialisation. Doom3PatchDef3Creator::initialiseModule called. => Module PatchModuleDef3 initialised. => Module Doom3MapLoader entering intialisation. MapDoom3API::initialiseModule called. => Module Doom3MapLoader initialised. Initialising module: ImageLoaderDDS => Module ImageLoaderDDS entering intialisation. ImageLoaderDDS::initialiseModule called. => Module ImageLoaderDDS initialised. Initialising module: ImageLoaderJPG => Module ImageLoaderJPG entering intialisation. ImageLoaderJPG::initialiseModule called. => Module ImageLoaderJPG initialised. Initialising module: ImageLoaderTGA => Module ImageLoaderTGA entering intialisation. ImageLoaderTGA::initialiseModule called. => Module ImageLoaderTGA initialised. Initialising module: Namespace => Module Namespace entering intialisation. Namespace::initialiseModule called. => Module Namespace initialised. Initialising module: ParticlesManager => Module ParticlesManager entering intialisation. ParticlesManager::initialiseModule called => Module ParticlesManager initialised. Initialising module: ReferenceCache => Module ReferenceCache entering intialisation. ReferenceCache::initialiseModule called. => Module ReferenceCache initialised. Initialising module: SoundManager => Module SoundManager entering intialisation. SoundManager::initialiseModule called => Module SoundManager initialised. Initialising module: UIManager => Module UIManager entering intialisation. UIManager::initialiseModule called Found toolbar: view Found toolbar: edit Found toolbar: texture Found toolbar: textool MenuManager: Finished loading default menu from registry. => Module UIManager initialised. => Module Radiant entering intialisation. RadiantAPI::initialiseModule called. default screen has 1 monitors monitor 0 geometry: 0, 0, 1680, 1050

Further to this topic: http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=6991&st=0 is anyone else using Vista? If so what setup do you have and what version of DarkRadiant? I'm using this setup and DarkRadiant v0.9.4 crashes on me, but v0.9.1 works: Vista Home Premium Intel Core 2 Duo 6600 2 Gb RAM nVidia GTS 8800 320MB with latest nVidia drivers

I searched the forum on loot values but didn't really come up with much. Probably not a huge deal at this point but probably needs looked into by the team before release. I'm adding loot defs so I thought I'd post my thoughts. Obviously the main thing we are aiming for in loot is the ability to easily recognize it. Values : seems to be the one factor that is most important. I've added alot of skins to the loot.def file. I did this so we get consistant loot values. Other wise the author would create a gold ring and have to choose a skin and change the value for a silver ring. Of course we can't stop an author from choosing any value they want, but most likely will stick to convention if it's easy. Probably the most important reason to have standard loot values is for the players. Often times at TTLG someone would be looking for that last 75 gold. It was easy for someone to say: gold goblets are 75, look here and there, a coin stack and a plate would be 75, ect... Anyone can double check my values and give input. Basically on things like rings and coins silver = 1/2 gold. Also I tried to make diamonds the most expensive with emeralds second, opals, down to less precious gems like amethyst. I didn't change any existing values, just tried to base ne values off of the existing items. Moveable/Static Loot : In my forums search I came across a thread or two talking about this. I think this is old news but would like to hear what you all currently think about it. I think at one point the team wasn't sure if it should move or not, due to explosions blowing it out of reach, whether or not the mover would work with loot, ect... All these issues seem to have passed so I suggest we get rid of static loot, is there a reason to still have these entities? (other than it already being used in maps?) With the exception of the scepter, statue loot, religious symbol and the diamond all of the loot models have collision models. I can add collision for the scepter and the statue as they are ase. The diamond needs retex so I can do that and add collision, although it will then be an ase. Someone else will need to add collision to the religious obj. I think bonehoard has some static loot which would be better as moveable anyway. I couldn't reach so I shot 10 arrows and it never budged. It was a gold vase which doesn't appear in the loot list but should. I suppose angua just added loot props for that map. Also, I'd like to get more opinions on the gem textures. I want to replace the diamond and ruby textures of old with these. I've got one thumbs up so far (from PinkDot?) the big blue thing is my diamond, the little white thing is the old one. of course there are several sizes... The tex on far right is meant to replace the ruby (small red next to large red) The red on left turns out to be a bonehoard specific shader. --EDIT--forgot to mention, the small red gem with my tex needs remapped, it would look more like the large one.

The team is usually willing to take on new beta-mappers who show some experience/talent/committment, and then there are a lot of developer forums that regular members can't see. The public forums may expand, but I think it's probably too early for that at this point.

The dark mod has come along way. with dark radiant released and many Thief FM makers out there along with the hype about this mod in the thief community maybe You guys should add in some new parts of the forums. For editor Discusion, and just general mapping. along with coding and stuff. so there is help here for the mappers that are at work learning and using the D3 editor. just a thought it would be a good move to create a really good base of DM editors for the release. it would help us solve the problems we are having and get better as we talk about it and learn the editor. also maybe a FM concepts forum to. to talk about ideas for good maps and for ppl to req mappers and coders for DM projects... i think its the right move. it would also bring a lot of new people interested in the mod's comunity on a daily bases. maybe we can steel some of the fm makers from the first two thiefs haha. hopefully. theres alot of amazing FM's out there for the first 2.

Thought it would be good to move this to the public forums.

I tested them in an empty room. The goal was to test the effect of a number of meshes, so I wanted to eliminate any other considerations. The test showed quite clearly that multiple meshes had *no effect whatsoever* on framerate--at least on static meshes. It's possible it added to the overall load time for the map however, I didn't really pay much attention to that. Here's the original thread: http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showt...&hl=submesh edit: the original test, using 5000 poly objects, showed only a drop of 2 fps when going from 1 mesh to 4, even with *135* models on screen. So while there does seem to be a marginal decrease, the effect is so low as to be not worth considering, IMO.

http://www.iddevnet.com/quake4/LevelEditor_Performance This link is not new on this forums (Gildoran posted it some time ago). You can find there some info on Draw calls and Batch sizes. Basically draw is a batch of polygons of the same shader and for one light only sent to graphics card. So 10 AI with 10 shaders each lit by 3 lights mean 300 draw calls. It's plenty, because 1000 is recomended maximum number of draw calls per frame. And where's the rest of rendered map? Springheel - I believe 10 meshes AI are a performance killers. Did you check them in empty room or in full map, with plenty other models and geometry with various textures? If anybody has time to do some test (sorry, I can't for a while) just check how many draw calls each AI adds to scene. There's a commnad r_showprimitive which shows draw calls number.