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http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=159 The second post in this thread is the important one. The aim of this thread is to collect all information about what we want to do on a more detailed level but not TO detailed. So discussion about conecpt art should be here, but the information that this beast should be done shouild be posted there as well. You should also look through the document and add items in the lists, if you think that they should be included and I forgot them. For example: I listed a number texture themes and what each theme must provide for. If you notice that a theme, or a texture for a theme is missing, the list it, there so we can keep track of it. You don't need to be specific, but specific enough that we know what you are talking about. Of course even if you are an artist, that doesn't mean that you may not look through the other sections to check if we forgot something. If you decide here that you want to do a belcher but the coders don't know about this, you can not animate your model afterwards.

If you agree or decide something like that, then you should post it in my project definition thread, so we can include/remove it there. Not everybody is following all the threads, but we should all know about these things. That's why I started this thread. http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=159 Usually I don't look much into the Art threads, because I'm not an artist and can not contribute much there. So most of the time, when I look at these threads, I just look at the pictures and hope that the first mod is appearing fast because of the great graphics. But I don't read all the postings here. I guess there are others as well and we shouldn't rely on this when deciding what we want and what not. Especially since a thread has only a limited time and after that only few remeber it and what has been decided. Don't forget. If you decide something here, then the coders will also have to know about it, to give it life.

We could possibly have reflections in mirrors, windows or other reflective surfaces where the player could look into and see his- or her-self as the thief character.

Mechanics of lockpicking is discussed here http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showforum=14 and here http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=170. This thread is actualy only about the position of the locks. Or did you mean that? Not sure about this.

I imagine it was a solution to the practical problem of the player clipping a wall while picking if the locks were to one side.

I'll work on these. PS: I just posted a sample environmental scene in the Art section: http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showt...findpost&p=1795

Well, I've gotten a few requests from people asking for direction in terms of concept art. I think what I'll do is post a few things that we need to have done and see if there are people willing to do it, for the moment. Currently, I'm going to put god_is_my_goldfish in charge of designing the arrows (since he has already done most of them, as well as the mechanical player tools (mines, flashbombs, etc). He has also requested the Belchers. I am currently working on character designs, including a few new Builder sketches. From there I'll move onto city guards and the like. What I'd like some volunteers for is: Player weapons: the sword is done, but we need sketches for the blackjack and bow. Main Menu: rough sketches of what the main menu might look like Beasties: We will need some kind of craymen or kurshok-like creature. Should be basically humanoid...something that could live underground or in pagan environments. If you can think of something that would suit D3 models/animations, so much the better. Environments: Any type of environmental sketch is good as a way of inspiring our texture artists and future mappers. Other things will have to wait until we sort out our priorities in the other threads. I'll update these later. If you would like to volunteer for what's already up there, please let me know.

I think that bit of jewelry is perfect. My vote to base it on that. As opposed to T2's square block thing, that doesn't look like much of anything?The light gem is a tool for the player. It's to simulate being able to look at your own body in real life and seeing how much darkness you're in. Although if we have body awareness, it could negate the need for such a gem.

I don't think we should be thinking of the lightgem as something our Thief actually carries. He wouldn't need a piece of equipment to tell him whether he was in shadows or not. It's purely a tool for the player. So far, I like Pakmmanen's version the best. It doesn't look like it would have to take up much room, either. The only concern would be making sure you can see the arm that is pointing in the direction you are facing. Reading a letter might be difficult at that size, but we could always use the Red=North method used for the compass in T1/2.

umm, that would be a bit back to front goldfish guy. A change of perspective would allow the player to see the direction they are headed aswell as where they have been. I'd still be interested to hearr what people think about dropping the gem for a mechanical measuring device. Nothing wrong with a gem. but it would be different, cool and thiefy not to.

I think the disadvantage of a round lightgem is, that I'd cover more of the screen, than an oblong gem. my suggestion: we let the player choose, if he wants to have the compass permanently on or not. I belive that would be quite simple - it would be just a check box in the options menu.

Saturday, August 14, 2004 id Software Keynote Comments 14:16 PST | RosOne QuakeCon would not be the same without John Carmack's traditional speak to the fans. This year he couldn't attend because yesterday his wife Anna Kang gave birth to their first child Ryan. Instead of him standing on the stage and talking to the crowd a DVD was recorded and played back during the event. Many exciting topics were covered such as the next generation hardware, id's next engine, Quake 4 and more. After that a Q&A session was held with some guys from id Software. Here are some details: The SDK should be released a few weeks after the patch comes out. Pre-production of the DOOM movie has begun in Easter Europe. The next game will be a FPS, mainly a single player game. Nothing more has been revealed yet. The Mac version of DOOM 3 still requires some work. No release date yet. There is no publisher set currently. The Linux server is done. It will be released soon. More keynote coverage can be found here at AMDZone and at HomeLAN Fed.

LOL, ummmmmmm.......someone has my login I think -- or the forum's trippin'. I didn't write this. Considering this other thread that's going on (http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showt...st=0entry1247), I'd say something's amiss with the forum.. or someone's playin' gamez.

We've had this discussion already. Check out: http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showt...%20dagger&st=50

This question was asked in the Ion Storm forums a while back. I thought it might help us to conjure up more resources and spur more creativity... Source: http://forums.ionstorm.com/index.php?showt...ndpost&p=290033 The City is an amalgamation of times and places, both actual and fictional. Medieval & Victorian London and France, modern-day Prague, and even parts of Boston (home of the ghosts of Looking Glass) have been mentioned as real places that influenced the look & feel of the City. Some oft-cited art references are The City of Lost Children, The Hunchback of Notre Dame and The Name of the Rose. The works of Mike Mignola (Fafhrd / Mouser stuff), Tim Burton (Mr. Wrought Iron Himself), Jules Verne, Charles D-i-c-k-e-n-s, and Alan Moore / Eddie Campbell have also been mentioned a fair few times as influences. That's just a sampling, there are dozens of others .

Whoa, can we shrink that image down a bit? Images should be kept at a reasonable size on the forums...if they absolutely need to be bigger than 800x600, then we should use a link. The cathedral doesn't look bad, but that tower really looks familiar. Is it based on something? I originally thought of Orthanc, but I know it isn't the movie version.

hey guys. just checking back at the forum to let you guys know that i'm still here and awaiting directions. i've only started looking around the dark mod forums, but havent yet seen everything, ill continue on to see what resources / info is available. well, fingernail or whoever's in charge , when you have some work for me, just email. thanks . btwy, forums is an ok way to get informed, but what we really need is an irc channel.

hey, really REALLY nice work on the mod so far, I can't wait to see how this is gonna be. I've mapped for halflife a lot and I've mapped just a bit for doom3. (although doom3 = ez to use as well) If there is going to be a map like cradle, I would love to have the opportunity to make the map. I am good with lighting and ambient sounds, and I think I would be able to create a great atmosphere that would startle the player. However I havent mapped for doom3 in about a month because the mapping program has so many errors and glitches in it. So this leads me to my second question. Are you guys waiting for the Doom3 SDK before going wild? I know many other mods are and I am personally excited about their "improved" editor they will be releasing with it. Thanks

Don't forget to look at the links, not just the pretty pictures (there is a limit on IMG tags in a post). Anyway, onwards: Weapon Models Bow Arrow (just broadhead for now) - figure 146, not 147. Short Sword Blackjack - you know what this looks like. I'd prefer less of a T3 club to more of a T2 style hard material thing. More coming....

If you want to stay free, use Blender (someone wrote an exporter for D3).... You could learn Lightwave and I'm sure it's great, but I think there has been an exporter written for 3DSMax also. Not sure though...check the D3W forums.

Wow, a man of many talents. Coming up with concepts for furniture by doing some research into the relevent time periods is something that needs to be done. I like the museum stand for that reason. The concept art for T3 involved a lot of dynamic sceans and good use of colour, that gave designers a lot to work from. In comparison, that shot of the room with the light on the wall is really bland, in terms of colours, archetecture, and overall feel. When the concept art was drawn with the camera at a really dramatic angle, you might think "well, the camera angle itself isnt' saying much - your viewpoint moves around all the time in the game", but what you really should be getting out of the image, is looking at it at a whole, and it gives you a feeling, and then you say "well, how can I somehow translate that feeling into the game, and give the player that feeling when they play the game?" I think that is the true power of concept art. We need something that says something new. Well not real new - we know what the Thief world is like - dark and moody, with brooding shadows and atmospheric lights, and ominous sillhouettes. But see how the concept art took that "theme" and gave it its own character? It's not easy but that's what I think we should aim for. A unique style of our own. I can see these sketches are just drafts, but they're a good start.

I think perhaps I'll have to pick up Blender to carry us over our lack of 3D team....that is, only one modeller. Adverts have gone on D3W, ttlg & polycount: any of you advertise on any other suitable forums too.

Thanks for the feedback, Oofnish! I'm glad you could listen to them. I think it's important to point out to everyone, though, that these were just quick samples I put toegether to find out if people thought my keyboard had the potential to help out with this project or not. The sounds were by no means supposed to be "songs," since I was just trying different sounds out on my keyboard and throwing them all together. I only spent maybe an hour or so creating all three of these files. I could've put them all in one big 10MB file, but I wanted to section it up for lower-bandwidth users. If anything, I'd classify these files as a hodge-podge of a bunch of random sounds thrown together. I did not aim to have any bit of continuity whatsoever. Aside from just general "ambience," I may also be creating stuff for menus, in-game melodies, very specific in-game situations, player movement sounds, player interaction sounds, weapon use sounds, steam-punk machinery, etc. So, by me putting these files together, it was meant to give you a simple taste of different sounds my keyboard is capable of. When the melody or sounds in my files all the sudden shift from one thing to another, it's meant to showcase the wide variety of capabilities my keyboard has. Or when a sound in file #2 all the sudden goes from runblyness to weirdness (juxtaposed) -- for example -- I was just trying different effects. This is necessary, because as a sound person, you're listening for everything 'in-between' as a possible resource to re-create and use in some way. Every little second of sound in those files could be used for something. For example, if you take 1/2 a second of a bell sound and stretch it out to 3 seconds and lower the pitch two octaves, you might be able to cut a part of that resulting sound out to create a footstep-across-grass sound or an arrow launching sound or something. (I actually don't know what sound it would make, but this is just a theoretical example to show you what I listen for when I'm listening to the above files.) I wasn't suggesting these files be used for the DarkMod either. It's simply way too early to tell, and the sounds would need to be way more polished. For sounds, in general, I think it's best to hold off creating anything final for a long time. We need to get a lot more concept artwork done and possibly create some in-game scenes before we get on the track of what ambience or loops will be used. For ambience and music, it will likely be imperative to actually play through a rough draft of the DarkMod game before deciding on which sounds/music to use. I know a lot of my inspiration will actually come when I'm walking through a level and seeing what I encounter. My imagination will run wild at that point. In the end, the clock bells you're referring to (if they're to be used) would likely be used for the game menu or an in-game scene near a clocktower or something, but it wouldn't repeat forever in a neverending looped sequence. It would maybe strike 12 times for a clocktower sequence... or maybe just a couple times for a game opening sequence or splash screen. Hopefully you won't have to worry too much -- I think I'll be pretty good at avoiding repitious sounds that shouldn't be indefinitely repetitious, or that stand out as being repitious. Oh yeah, and the piano in file #1? LOL. I threw that 'piece' together in 2 minutes. The rhythms are off and everything. I was just trying to make a somewhat coherent 'melody' that was 'vaguely' reminiscent of a piano piece that was used in Thief: Deadly Shadows. If I were to actually create a piece for DarkMod, I'd actually spend a lot more time on it than 2 minutes ... and I probably wouldn't use a piano piece from T:DS as my inspiration. Or any piano sound for that matter

I'm not a music guy, so get your salt grains ready. I think these sound pretty good. Nice, quiet background ambience style tunes. The first one is nice, although the exact tone of the piano gave me a different 'feeling' than I would expect in the game. A little more light and airy that I would expect, but not bad altogether The second one is also nice. Defintely more ambiance than music. I was with it all the way till the end, where some of the sounds became a little too rythmic, and began to sound more music than ambiance. I think there is a place for musical ambience and environmental ambience, but I question whether they should be mixed together in the same track. Triggered changes could work with this, of course... music changes are great when done correctly! The third one was probably my favorite, particularly the beginning. Great, dark, brooding musical ambiance. My one complaint is the drastic change between the first half and the second half. This is two different themes smashed into one song, I think, and maybe they should be separated. The first half should continue into a new movement, but it should definately carry over the themes. Also, I noticed quite clearly the chimes used in the first two, sounding like distant clock bells. Nice sound on these. However, in ambiance, I think you may want to avoid features such as these. On a five to ten minute loop, the reoccuring bells could seem strange to a player who recognizes a midnight clock chime occurring every 5 minutes. The chimes would work fantastically as an intro segment that isn't looped, or a triggered musical bit though. Note that this restriction doesn't apply to all features; bangs sudden dischordant sounds, etc. can fit in with the environment and not call attention to themselves. Anyway, just my opinion, as a non-sound designer

The face sketch is here: http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?act=S...3&st=0#entry796 I wasn't sure whether a side view was necessary...if you'd like one just let me know.