Requesting Help With Modified Versions Of Candlesticks

[SneaksieDave]

Can someone help me to get slightly modified versions of the various candlesticks? I don't want to replace them, just supplement them with another option; versions using the candle flame particle. Besides the main reason of our new wacky cool extinguishable flames, the doom candle flame texture looks really bad at my resolution (640X480) - it's surrounded by an ugly blurry square.

 

I'm not sure who the author was, but I'm thinking it was probably BlackThief? All I need is a new copy of each of our candle items, set up the same and ready to go (I don't have Lightwave, and Blender doesn't seem to work with these items, so I can't do it myself - I've spent the last 1.5 days trying to do so ) but with the triangles up at the wick removed, so there is no flame texture. At that spot, a flame particle will be added for this setup option.

 

It looks like, from what I've seen with the model opened in Blender, that the model must contain the name of itself within the file? I might be wrong. If so, then please name them as originalnameN+1.lwo when you save. In other words,

 

candlestick1.lwo => candlestick3.lwo

candlestick2.lwo => candlestick4.lwo

chandelier1.lwo => chandelier2.lwo

wallcandles1.lwo => wallcandles2.lwo

 

So there's no overwrites, just a new version.

 

Thanks for the help.

[Dram]

Check the other thread, I think I've solved your problem

[SneaksieDave]

In case you don't see the other thread (or anyone else might want to chime in and assist...) - it doesn't look like it's going to work. Here are the problems:

 

- this will either require the user to know to set a skin to use a default object, or it will have to be part of the definition if possible (minor).

- the candle wax flickers as a result of the material, on or off. I've tried to find how this is done, but it's not done the id way - right in the material file; apparently it's within the material fed to Lightwave? I don't have it, and thus can't fix this myself and need someone's help. (major)

- the wick is not aligned with the grid, and it makes a noticeable offset. Meaning, any time a user wants to use this candle, they'll have to actively set the candle particle (or the candle) to be at X.5 grid location, which is of course silly. (major)

 

So I guess I'm back to the original request of renamed models - no flame triangles, and now no flickering wax material (it looks like it's just a blend that needs removing, we could even set up a dummy copy with no blending) and an on-grid wick.

[New Horizon]

- the candle wax flickers as a result of the material, on or off. I've tried to find how this is done, but it's not done the id way - right in the material file; apparently it's within the material fed to Lightwave? I don't have it, and thus can't fix this myself and need someone's help. (major)

 

 

Do you just need that particular material removed from the model or changed to something else? I can probably do that.

[SneaksieDave]

I wish I knew. I don't quite understand how the candle indicates the wax texture (where is BT, he should know?), but apparently the id versions do it in the MTR. Not the case for us, and I don't know how Lightwave works, so I'm SOL.

 

What I'm assuming is, we could make a TDM version of the id material, minus the add blend (assuming that makes the flicker) and then we can point to that. So, same texture, no special effect for flickering, since we don't need it, and it only complicates things. But I'm not sure how to do that either, since I haven't made any models. So I can't test to be sure.

 

But then again, I don't know how to help do that. Do I create a new material, and then send it to you/post it? I assume Lightwave needs to know that material right now, in order to assign it?

[SneaksieDave]

Okay. Well I took what I believe is the wax material (in patricktest.mtr in pak000.pk4) for the candles and created a new material, leaving out the blend add, and that didn't help - the material still flickers. So either that means I don't know how to do it, or Doom3 is not overwriting the base version with my version. Since I can't affect the material the TDM candle uses, I can't do jack-shit until someone helps.

 

Don't know why I'm killing myself over this, but I thought it would be nice to have some functional candles.

[New Horizon]

Okay. Well I took what I believe is the wax material (in patricktest.mtr in pak000.pk4) for the candles and created a new material, leaving out the blend add, and that didn't help - the material still flickers. So either that means I don't know how to do it, or Doom3 is not overwriting the base version with my version. Since I can't affect the material the TDM candle uses, I can't do jack-shit until someone helps.

 

Don't know why I'm killing myself over this, but I thought it would be nice to have some functional candles.

 

I'm still looking into it, just haven't had any luck yet.

 

I can get rid of the candleflame by removing the flat poly that sits around the candle wick...but I don't know how the candle itself flickers. Gah.

[SneaksieDave]

Thanks, it would seem you and Dram are my only hope.

 

With this type of modelling activity, it's no real surprise we have a relatively low number of model assets. This is another reason I'd like to get past this little goal and maybe start to learn Blender. Perhaps we should ring the "TDM needs your help" bell yet again. Sigh. It's especially annoying to go over to TTLG forums and see new maps going up with fantastic textures (this comes to mind: http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107358) and tons of new models etc., where it seems like everyone has something to contribute, yet they won't help TDM.

 

Whatever, more wasted words, same old rant.

[New Horizon]

Actually, I just found out what's going on...the material path is linked directly to doom 3 base assets, I'm going to extract that material file from doom 3 and modify it.

[SneaksieDave]

I believe the flicker is a blend add in the material. But I don't see the actual definition of that texture. I guess the author would know. Who made this, BT, Oddity, or one of the guys who comes out of hiding during eclipses?

 

Well, if you can get rid of the flat polys for the four(?) candle models, and can shift the model by half a grid snap(?!) so that it's inline with the D3 grid, I can work with that. At that point, it will still flicker even when doused, and then other members will get annoyed. And then when they're annoyed, maybe something more will happen.

 

 

Edit: just saw your reply. Yes, that's what I was mentioning earlier. I created a new non flickering version of the definition in patricktest.mtr, and it didn't work. Whether my logic or action was wrong, I'm not sure.

 

Either way, now that I think of it, there's no real "project" to this anyway. As far as I know, I can't bind an entity to another at a specific location - unless there is an origin offset type of value? And if not, then all this really is, is using existing candle models with the new flame effects. The whole stupid stumbling block here is the flame triangles, the flickering skin, and the off-grid shift. Once those are fixed, it's done, so this whole thing is just a modelling job... bleh, who cares. I can't do the model, so if someone else does, great, we have candles. If they don't, we don't. Meh, losing my spirit rapidly lately.

[New Horizon]

Done.

 

Flame is removed, flicker is removed and I tried to line it up with the grid. Let me know if it needs further tweaking.

 

Changes on CVS.

 

I uploaded a copy of lightwave to the ftp veledan lets me use. I can send you the link if you wish?

[SneaksieDave]

Thanks much, I'll take a look.

 

Lightwave? Dare I? Hm, maybe I could d/l it so you can remove it from your space, but I'll likely give Blender the go first.

[SneaksieDave]

The alignment looks and works great, and the flame is gone. Only problem is the candle itself is black instead of the wax texture. Did you have to change the material in Lightwave, or is it something I can fix locally with a TGA and the MTR file?

 

I guess D3 doesn't override re-definitions, or at least it didn't work when I tried it with the hell candles...

[New Horizon]

The alignment looks and works great, and the flame is gone. Only problem is the candle itself is black instead of the wax texture. Did you have to change the material in Lightwave, or is it something I can fix locally with a TGA and the MTR file?

 

I guess D3 doesn't override re-definitions, or at least it didn't work when I tried it with the hell candles...

 

Did you do a full checkout? I uploaded updated textures and an mtr file as well.

[SneaksieDave]

Yep, I got the new candlestick models, a couple of TGAs, and lights_dm.mtr. They're still waxy looking for you? They're not fully black here... could it be that I'm seeing them without the blend, and so they're just dark? I'll try figuring how to increase the blend and see if I can lighten them locally.

[New Horizon]

Yep, I got the new candlestick models, a couple of TGAs, and lights_dm.mtr. They're still waxy looking for you? They're not fully black here... could it be that I'm seeing them without the blend, and so they're just dark? I'll try figuring how to increase the blend and see if I can lighten them locally.

 

Yeah, I couldn't find the mtr that was being used in doom 3 so I just added a 'candle' material name in lights_dm with the candle textures. No blends, so they're just appearing as they would normally.

[SneaksieDave]

I tried adding a blend (I might have done it wrong, wanted to get an answer to you quick) but it didn't seem to work. Here's what it looks like in DoomEd for me. It's not fully black, you can see the orangey highlights on it (which appear on the TGA) but no light, waxy surface. When plunked in a map, they're the same darkness.

 

Edit: well of course, if there's no trickery to it beyond this, it should be easy to fix up. I'll try to tweak the texture and see if I can get it to look any better (assuming this isn't just a technical problem).

[New Horizon]

I tried adding a blend (I might have done it wrong, wanted to get an answer to you quick) but it didn't seem to work. Here's what it looks like in DoomEd for me. It's not fully black, you can see the orangey highlights on it (which appear on the TGA) but no light, waxy surface. When plunked in a map, they're the same darkness.

 

Edit: well of course, if there's no trickery to it beyond this, it should be easy to fix up. I'll try to tweak the texture and see if I can get it to look any better (assuming this isn't just a technical problem).

 

Hmmm, that's weird...doesn't look like that in doom edit when I load up...it's much brighter. I'll post a screen.

 

Edit:

 

Heh, maybe it does look like that. I just looked at it without a light. I'll see what I can figure out.

[SneaksieDave]

Here are the two textures I got with the sync. Should there be more/different?

 

Edit: no worry, if it's just a texture, we can fix that right up.

[New Horizon]

Here are the two textures I got with the sync. Should there be more/different?

 

Edit: no worry, if it's just a texture, we can fix that right up.

 

Yeah, it's just that the texture is so completely dark...although I tried to lighten it up a very small amount and it looked horrible. Something very subtle might work.

[SneaksieDave]

Okay, I'll give that a shot tomorrow. Would you mind giving that same treatment (delete triangles, align on grid) for chandelier1 and wallcandles1? With those, we should have a full set by tomorrow.

[New Horizon]

Okay, I'll give that a shot tomorrow. Would you mind giving that same treatment (delete triangles, align on grid) for chandelier1 and wallcandles1? With those, we should have a full set by tomorrow.

 

Will do.

 

Edit: They're now on CVS.