Baldurs Gate 2 Did It Again

[sparhawk]

Probable spoilers so if you intend to play BG2 don't read any further.

 

 

 

AHH! I hate this! First time I played BG2 I collected a lot of quests, but then followed the mainquest and suddenly I couldn't finish the subquests anymore. This time, I knew this beforehand, so I did NOT finish the mainquest and instead spent a lot of time doing all the smaller quests. But since I havent played it through the last time, when I came to the higher chapters like four or five it suddenly happend again, because the mainquest always uses phrases like doing things urgently, so I was not entirely sure if there is a timelimit or not and suddenly I was finished. I wanted to kill all teh dragons, as I found a very easy way to do it, and didn't get there because the game was over already.

 

I started a new game now, with a thief, but I'm not sure that this is a good choice as the main character. I was quite shocked when I realized that Yoshimo was gone, but then I realized that I didn't really needed him anymore at this point. There were almost no traps or the ones didn't pose any danger anymore. I still choose the thief, because I wanted to play it this way, but I still always get into fights. What settings are best for a thief? I guess I have to ramp up sneaking to 100 right from the start, because I set it to 85 and still it fails to hide as often as not. Also I thought that, as a thief, I could do sneak attacks, but either that doesn't work, or I have to choose a different kind of thief type.

 

My first character was a mage, but at the end he was almost not neccessary anymore. By the time I had powerfull spells, I didn't really need him anymore, because the fighters were so strong that they could overcome almost everything without even using magic.

[Ishtvan]

I ended up playing as thief sub-class assassin to be a little better in combat (THAC0) and get poison weapon, set traps, etc. You can do back stabs, you just have to make sure you're well hidden and facing their back when you attack, and of course if you miss on that attack, you usually un-hide and are screwed, until higher levels where you get a few chances (or maybe that was just 'cause I was hasted, I forget). It's also easier to hide/sneak in darker areas.

[oDDity]

Thieves are pretty useless in groups. Mages get a open lock spell, and priests get a find trap spell, and anyway, it becomes too much of a pain in the ass to hold your party back and send the thief forward looking for traps all the time. Also, backstab becomes a waste of time when you have warriors to do the melee, as does setting traps.

You don't use a thief skills properly unless you solo the game, but then it becomes very hard to win because he's a poor fighter, and you can't kill everything with traps.

Since you found it so easy (what have to set the difficulty slider to?) you should try soloing it this time, as a multiclass thief/fighter, or thief/mage, or the last time I played I made a thief/fighter/mage multiclass. Don't be concerned about not being able to wear any armor, use multiple stoneskins and mirror image, and your enemies can't even hit you while your fighter parts beats them up, and you have your thief part for setting traps for all the powerful single enemies. You have to be an elf or half elf to play a half elf to be that multiclass trio I think.

For back stabbing you need a dagger, short show or longsword will work, but you have to stand behind an enemy while in stealth mode. Also, you have a greater chance of 'hide in shadows' skill working at night or if you actually stand in a shadow. Also, a lot of mage enemies will have stone skin cast n themselves, so you can't backstab them, same with golems since they are immune to blade weapons anyway.

There is no time limit on anything in the game, you can takes years of in game time if you want.

Also if you haven't got Throne of Bhaal installed you should, in order to finish the story.

I'm not sure if you know, but you can join with the vampires instead of the shadow thieves, so if you didi t one way the last time, you get a different story by doing it the other way this time. You get more xp in the end if you side with the vampires anyway, since you can kill all of them in the end. IF you think there weren't enough dangerous traps, the shadow thieves bulding is full of them when you are working for the vampires.

[sparhawk]

There are some timelimits. At least with some quests of the Drows you have to do them in proper time, or your cover is busted. I think I didn't play properly though, because for the endbattle my characters were to weak to take on all the daemons at once. But I did much better then last time. BG2 battle system is quite complex, which is pretty unusal. In most games it doesn't really matter which weapons or spells you use, because by the time you reach the end you are powerfull enough to win anyway. In BG2 this is quite different. I didn't know that there is a limit on the number of spells you can learn, so I was surprised that my character couldn't learn more and had a bunch of similar spells, that were quite useless. Not totally, but there would have been better combinations if I had known this before. This time I learned at least, that you really have to carefully select your spells, depending on the enemy you are about to face. In most games you have one or two spells, which are so powerfull that you can use it for everything, but not here.

[oDDity]

Yes, well that's what's kept me playing the BG games again and again for...well, it's almost 10 years now since BG1 was released. I can see you're already getting addicted) In which case you should get BG1 and throne of bhaal, and play the whole game through from level 1 at candlekeep, to the final battle with - well that would be a big spoiler.

You can also try soloing it as a pure caster, a pure thief, a pure warrior etc and get a different game each time and have to use different strategies, plus there are many alternate ways to do things.

As for the drow city quests, yes, if you want to be a nice guy and play along you have to follow some time limits there, but you can just say 'fuck it', lay waste to the whole city, and ether take the eggs, or don't even bother and just kill the dragon as well. It's up to you.

[sparhawk]

Yes, well that's what's kept me playing the BG games again and again for...well, it's almost 10 years now since BG1 was released. I can see you're already getting addicted) In which case you should get BG1 and throne of bhaal, and play the whole game through from level 1 at candlekeep, to the final battle with - well that would be a big spoiler.

 

I saw that there is a mod that binds BG1, BG2 and Thron of Baal together in single big package to play. I was considering installing this. Haven't played Bg1 yet though, even though I have it somewhere.

 

You can also try soloing it as a pure caster, a pure thief, a pure warrior etc and get a different game each time and have to use different strategies, plus there are many alternate ways to do things.

 

Do you litereally mean as one single Thief or one single Mage or Warrior? I can't imagine that this would work. As the Thief I have no spell abillities and he is not such a great fighter. So I don't see how this should work unless you omit at least some of the quest. And I don't see how you could fight Bhodi or Irenicus at the end and succeed. Even the warrior would have big problems, because he has almost no defense against the spells. I think you would at least need two characters IMO. One Mage and one Warrior (Minks would be a good choice as your NPC then). Or do you suggest it is really possible to play with a single character?

 

As for the drow city quests, yes, if you want to be a nice guy and play along you have to follow some time limits there, but you can just say 'fuck it', lay waste to the whole city, and ether take the eggs, or don't even bother and just kill the dragon as well. It's up to you.

 

Yeah I know. I did that on my first go (fighting through the Drow City), but this time I tried to get as many XP as possible, and fighting through the city doesn't yield as much. Also I wanted to see how far it goes before you are exposed, or if you are somehow in a dead end at some time if you convert to a Drow or such.

 

One other thing, do you know, when you receive XP, for example when you kill an enemy, is this distributed over the party? So if I get 6000 XP for the kill, each character gets 1000XP? Currently I try to play with less characters. I have only four now in my party and I refused Yoshimo, because I know what he will do later.

 

I realized I did a mistake with my Thief though. I wondered why he was so bad at going in the shadows, and now I realized that there are more properties to give points to. I always only saw the first four (traps, stealing, sneaking and picking locks) and never realized that there are also other characteristics. When I played with Yoshimo he never had this problem, so I didn't notice this until now.

[oDDity]

It's definitely possible to solo SoA with a thief, or sorcerer or warrior, Irenicus is not that tough compared to some of the battles in ToB, but it's not possible, or at least etremely difficult to finish Throne of Bhaal, except as a solo sorcerer. Maybe it is possible to do it as a warrior if you have lots of scrolls of protection against magic, etc, but the dragons in ToB can kill a level 40 warrior in seconds.

AS for Bhodi and vampires in general, just buy a protection from undead scroll from any temple, and they completely ignore you while you kill them. It's not an exploit, it's just part of the D&D rules, though the scrolls last for too long in Baldur's gate I think.

As a sorcerer, you can kill the dragons by casting time stop, changing to the slayer with improved haste, and your special abilites you have by then of improved attack.

As a thief you can kill them with special spike traps you have by then, though as a thief you cannot do some of the larger and longer battles which come up in ToB.

I've only ever successfully soloed ToB as a sorcerer, or a multiclass character.

 

XP is distributed over the party, so if you solo you make a lot of xp very quickly, and therefore its not as difficult as you think because you are a lot higher level earlier in the game.

[Darkness_Falls]

Didn't read the above because I don't want to see spoilers, but wanted to mention I finally picked up "Baldur's Gate 2, the Collection" a while back, per oDDity's recommendation. Found it at a half price bookstore for $10. Has Shadows of Amn and Throne of Baal. One of these days I'll make time to play it.

 

Huh, I also found Thief 2 there. They had a bunch of copies, so I snatched one up. I already had T2, of course -- but it's always good to have a spare; especially since my copy has gotten pretty scratched up over the years. Or I might give the new one to a friend who wanted to try it out. Think it was only $8 or so.

[sparhawk]

It's definitely possible to solo SoA with a thief, or sorcerer or warrior, Irenicus is not that tough compared to some of the battles in ToB,

 

Ah, Irenicus himself was rather easy, but the five daemons are tough to overcome.

 

Do you know, if do a sneak attack then the thief gets out of the shadow. Can I go directly back into the shadow again, or do I have to loose the enemy first? I was quite impressed with that attack. I sneaked behind a mage, and killed it with a single slash of the dagger dealing 32 points of damage. But I think I will start from new, because I made some severe errors when I created my character, as I didn't notice the extra properties. I definitely will try to play a single character this time.

 

but it's not possible, or at least etremely difficult to finish Throne of Bhaal, except as a solo sorcerer. Maybe it is possible to do it as a warrior if you have lots of scrolls of protection against magic, etc, but the dragons in ToB can kill a level 40 warrior in seconds.

 

In BG2 I think could manage it to take on a dragon alone. But not with my old character, because he learned to many spells. Since I didn't know that there is a limit, I let him learn all the scrolls that I found, and only later realized that there is a limit but then it was to late of course. That's on thing though with BG2. It definitely requires that you play it several times. I think there is no way you can play it the first time successfully, because it is way to complex and requires some preknowledge, which is an argument FOR the save feature.

 

AS for Bhodi and vampires in general, just buy a protection from undead scroll from any temple, and they completely ignore you while you kill them. It's not an exploit, it's just part of the D&D rules, though the scrolls last for too long in Baldur's gate I think.

 

Yeah. On this run, I played way to much with brute force. When I tried to play as a Thief mainly with less characters, I realized how important it is to properly employ all the tools that are available. You can play it like a hack'n slay, but then it gets more boring. It's more interesting to try it with the abillities and tools.

 

As a sorcerer, you can kill the dragons by casting time stop, changing to the slayer with improved haste, and your special abilites you have by then of improved attack.

 

Slayer costs you reputation points. I only used him two times.

 

XP is distributed over the party, so if you solo you make a lot of xp very quickly, and therefore its not as difficult as you think because you are a lot higher level earlier in the game.

 

Good to know.

[oDDity]

Reputation doesn't matter by the time you get the slayer ability anyway. It only affects the buying of items, not selling them, but there's really nothing worth buying anyway, all the best stiff is looted. I always end up with about 200,000 gold at the end.

The hasted Slayer, with greater whirlwind attack ability (the best ability you should choose when you reach that level) is the best fighter in the game, you shouldn't waste it because of reputation. He can kill those 5 demons a the end quite easily.

As for the spell limit, you can erase the old spells you don't want, and learn new ones. When you right click on it to read about it there is an erase button at the bottom.

 

Do you know, if do a sneak attack then the thief gets out of the shadow. Can I go directly back into the shadow again, or do I have to loose the enemy first? I was quite impressed with that attack. smile.gif I sneaked behind a mage, and killed it with a single slash of the dagger dealing 32 points of damage.

 

IF you play a warrior/thief multiclass and get a critical hit on a back stab at higher levels when it's up to 5x multiplier, you can do over 200 damage in one hit.

You always have to be out of sight of all enemies to hide in shadows. You can use invisibility potions though to immediately hide and backstab again after your first backstab.

 

If you want to get all the xp you can then don't forget all the quests in the city. Some are well hidden.

In the sewers in the temple district there are three hidden areas with quests, the one where you meet keldorn has a lot of xp, plus you get to to the second part of the kangaxx quest. THere is a hidden unlocked door near the area where you meet the group of bandits, it contains a bard who you have to rescue if you want to do the planar sphere quests in the basement of the inn in the bridge district, again a lot of ex ad good items in there, it's your quickest chane to get boots of sped.

There's a third hidden door in the sewers that requires a key you get from Samia in the Umar hills dungeon. Also, killing firkrag the dragon there gives you a +5 sword usable only by paladins, but you need that to kill Kangaxx the demi-lich, after you have killed the other two lichs to get his body parts. Kangaxx is worth a lot of xp and drops the best ring in the game.

[sparhawk]

As for the spell limit, you can erase the old spells you don't want, and learn new ones. When you right click on it to read about it there is an erase button at the bottom.

 

Never noticed this button, I must look at it again.

 

IF you play a warrior/thief multiclass and get a critical hit on a back stab at higher levels when it's up to 5x multiplier, you can do over 200 damage in one hit.

 

Wow! 200? That should kill almost everybody.

 

Kangaxx the demi-lich, after you have killed the other two lichs to get his body parts. Kangaxx is worth a lot of xp and drops the best ring in the game.

 

That ring was really usefull. I used it usually to heal all my party members. You can even get it twice. You can steal it first, and then kill gangaxx and get it again. This happened to me accidently with the Blinded Cultist Beholder. I went down in the dungeon to kill it, but when I emerged back, I wanted to look if there is something else to get and suddenly it was alive again. So I killed it again, and got the reward also again. Don't remember what it was, but it was quite powerfull.

[oDDity]

We could play a multiplayer game. I've never played it multiplayer before, so it would add something new to it.

If Darkness Falls installs his he could join as well, except I think he's in the US, so time difference would be a problem.

[sparhawk]

Sounds ok to me. Only problem could be to find some mutual time. Usually I squeeze in some playtime whenever I can, but during the night mostly it should be ok.

[oDDity]

Well, it's quite a long game as oy know, so at least 2 hour sessions in the evening/night would be about average, otherwise it'd take for ever to finish it.

I think a good group for two people would be me as a sorcerer and you as a thief/warrior multiclass.

If DF can fit in with the time zones then he can either be a cleric/priest type, or you can each play a pure warrior and pure thief.

It's harder than it sounds, because you can't really use pause so much in multiplayer, so it's basically real time fighting, which can be tough and confusing in big battles.

[sparhawk]

Thief sounds good to me. Don't like warriors so much, even though they are quite usefull.

[Maximius]

You guys are getting me going. Im going downtown to buy the three set pack right now. Should be cheap at this point, right?

[oDDity]

I'm not sure if it's dropped in price a whole lot. I don't think you'll find it for $5 or whatever like some old games.

 

Spar, to play multiplayer you need to have done a full install, need the latest SoA patch which is this one, and you have to set the frame rate to 60 in the config options. Then I think you just type in my ip and join the game.

IF you play a thief/fighter multiclass, you still get all your thief skills, but you are also a better fighter as well, so there really isn't much point in playing a pure thief class.

[Maximius]

You guys are getting me going. Im going downtown to buy the three set pack right now. Should be cheap at this point, right?

 

 

ARGH! Just my luck, last week there were three of the combined packages at the GameStop downtown, now of course when I want one they are all gone. Oh well, off to E-Bay...

[Nyarlathotep]

Didn't read the above because I don't want to see spoilers, but wanted to mention I finally picked up "Baldur's Gate 2, the Collection" a while back, per oDDity's recommendation. Found it at a half price bookstore for $10. Has Shadows of Amn and Throne of Baal. One of these days I'll make time to play it.

 

Huh, I also found Thief 2 there. They had a bunch of copies, so I snatched one up. I already had T2, of course -- but it's always good to have a spare; especially since my copy has gotten pretty scratched up over the years. Or I might give the new one to a friend who wanted to try it out. Think it was only $8 or so.

Where is this store, perchance? I've never been able to find a copy of Thief 2, and for that matter, Planescape: Torment. I'd love to pick up Thief: Gold while I'm at it--every time I have to reinstall it I have to recover disc 1, it's scratched up so badly.

[sparhawk]

Spar, to play multiplayer you need to have done a full install, need the latest SoA patch which is this one, and you have to set the frame rate to 60 in the config options. Then I think you just type in my ip and join the game.

 

I will download it tonight. But I think I already have it applied. Last time I looked for the latest patch, it was already applied, so this might be the one.

 

IF you play a thief/fighter multiclass, you still get all your thief skills, but you are also a better fighter as well, so there really isn't much point in playing a pure thief class.

 

Yesterday I started to play with a pure thief a solo, but this is quite tough. It took me ages just to escape out of the first dungeon. It's quite frustrating IMO, because you can't really avoid the battles alltogether, adn since the stats are so low, my thief is standing there slashing for five minutes until I overcome even the weaker enemies. I put all my stats into hiding, lockpicking, and trap detection as well as pickpocket, so I barely can use traps at the moment (a skill about 20 or 30 at the moment). But still it has adavantages. By the time I got to Waukeens Promenade, I already upgraded three levels.

 

I also found a nice exploit, so that I can use certain spells, even though my character can not use spells normally. I can only use spellscrolls that affect the character itself (like Oracle, Shield, etc.) but no offensive spells where you have to select a target.

 

I tried to do the Circus quest, but I don't see how I can overcome the werewolfs. When I enter the first tent, I can free Aeriel(?) easily, but then, when I go on, there is no way I can sneak on, and once I'm inside that second part (where the werewolfs are waiting) I get immediately attacked by two werewolfs and a shadow, and even if I go back they come along. Since they are so fast, I also can not outrun them and hide from them, so I wonder how this could be tackeld. I figure I have to find some haste potion and so that I can run away from them, but then I still have the final battle to face with that illusionist gnome. I must look where the speedboots are, for they are most usefull for the thief.

[oDDity]

I tried to do the Circus quest, but I don't see how I can overcome the werewolfs. When I enter the first tent, I can free Aeriel(?) easily, but then, when I go on, there is no way I can sneak on, and once I'm inside that second part (where the werewolfs are waiting) I get immediately attacked by two werewolfs and a shadow, and even if I go back they come along. Since they are so fast, I also can not outrun them and hide from them, so I wonder how this could be tackeld. I figure I have to find some haste potion and so that I can run away from them, but then I still have the final battle to face with that illusionist gnome. I must look where the speedboots are, for they are most usefull for the thief.

 

Get through the tent by hiding in shadows just before the door where you meet the ogre/aerie, you will still be hidden in shadows when you reach the werewolf room, and just go straight up to the door, and you will still be hidden when you reach the boss room, I think you can even make it right around to behind him and backstab him before you lose your cover if you are fast enough..

The trick is to use pause the instant you enter a room, so as not to waste real time giving the command to walk to the door or target,

Of course, this would all have been easier with an invisibility potion.

The only way to get boot of speed at this point, is to enter the planar sphere in the basement of the inn in the bridge district, but that will be an almost impossible fight for you, without being very very sly. YO ucan't get out again until you kill the demons and their minions int here.

[sparhawk]

Get through the tent by hiding in shadows just before the door where you meet the ogre/aerie, you will still be hidden in shadows when you reach the werewolf room, and just go straight up to the door, and you will still be hidden when you reach the boss room, I think you can even make it right around to behind him and backstab him before you lose your cover if you are fast enough..

The trick is to use pause the instant you enter a room, so as not to waste real time giving the command to walk to the door or target,

 

Will try that. But this is a good example for savegames. The game is not designed to play on your own or extensivly plan ahead. In actuallity it should be possible to scout the area if you are very carefull. But some of the quests, like this one, show that you either must go in with a strong enough party because the focus is on the battle, or you must already know exactly where to go. BG is still better in that regard, because most other RPGs don't have so many ways to solve a quest without bloodshed, and in a lot of cases you can avoid the fight and exclusively use your skills.

 

Of course, this would all have been easier with an invisibility potion.

 

Yeah. Haven't found one so far.

 

The only way to get boot of speed at this point, is to enter the planar sphere in the basement of the inn in the bridge district, but that will be an almost impossible fight for you, without being very very sly. YO ucan't get out again until you kill the demons and their minions int here.

 

Ah, that's where they were. I didn't remember where I had them from, but I remembered that it was well into some quests before I actually got them.

[oDDity]

Well obviously some games need saving. A game like this which is very very long, it's not a series of individual missions that can be done in a few hours, and also it doesn't have the necessary game mechanics to be able to scout properly. You're constantly being surprised and put in danger..also, this game simply wasn't designed to be soloed by a thief.

This is all different in TDM though. You do have the game mechanics in place to scout properly, and the missions are an average of 2 hours. There is no focus on combat, and you can run and hide.

All of those things mean that saving is not necessary.

[Darkness_Falls]

We could play a multiplayer game. I've never played it multiplayer before, so it would add something new to it.

If Darkness Falls installs his he could join as well, except I think he's in the US, so time difference would be a problem.

Awesome idea.. unfortunately I could never be as reliable at playing at the times and for the lengths of time that we'd need.

[sparhawk]

Ha! I found a nice bug. There is this quest with the killer Grejik(?) in the bridge district. Since I already knew that he is the guy, I sneaked up on him and almost killed him. Then he talked to me and confessed that he was the killer so I got 23500 XP, but he was not marked red as enemy. So I talked to him again, and it happened again. I did this four times, giving almost 100.000 XP thus.