plasticman

I was about to say Wolfenstein 3d had more fan maps -- but same as for doom applies here. Thinking about it it's never fair to compare these numbers since games in general are so different. Different options for gameplay and different support for modders. I mean it would be pointless to do great single player maps for Quake3 so you cannot compare this to Thief. And there would be thousands of user generated places for KotOR if Lucasarts wouldn't be so restrictive about all that Star Wars stuff. What seems to be unique about the Thief community is it's longevity. It's not just some hundred fan missions lying around, abandoned on some server. The ability to tell stories (or more imply them) within a fan mission sure has something to do with it. off topic: I dare to disagree. Once you get the hang with Q3 you'll notice the hard part is the right distribution of items. These balance or unbalance the gameplay -- building a real good map comes close to rocket science.

Also on some occasions it can lead to problems, when your doom3-path contains spaces. So if possible it's better to avoid it right from the start. I'm positive there is no need for a no-CD patch.

There was a 1.1 patch right at the initial release. Nevertheless: glitches alone don't make a bad game. I haven't seen it yet. But when it's just glitches I can wait for let's say 1.2 and have a look. It's Wolfentein. I grew up on Wolfentein.

Good to hear this. Thanks anyway!

I alwas intended to come back here later and play this mission. So here I am (much later) but the mission is gone. Has it been "temporarily unpublished" to reappear soon or is it really gone? I mean like vanished from existence? Forever?

Somehow I failed to notice this before now... People over at the Hexen: Edge of Chaos Mod relocated to a new website: www.hexenmod.com The never seen before feature is a brand new community forum. Of course it is not much populated by now, but this hopefully changes as the word spreads. So tell your friends about it, and maybe not only your friends but your foes as well or even your family...

It's pronounced French. "Gareh" will always carry an old baguette with him. Makes a perfect substitute for the blackjack.

Cool! What's s/he gonna say? I want "come get some". So finally we know the name of the main character. It is not Garret. It is "Garret". --

Same for me. Looks like the game itself will be less demanding compared to that website.

Mmmh. Thanks for posting it. Again. So everyone can look at these imperessing graphix at the beginning of the article. I think they're really great. In a weird sense.

tEh cArMAcK is giving interviews about it everywhere. At first I was surprised since id seemed to be proud of being independent all the time. Reading the interviews made me see the point here, seems like a good business decision to assure they can continue doing what they always did. The canon is that things are not going to change fast: (from joystiq.com) I take it this applies to Doom3's code to become open source as well. It will be interesting to watch the long time development of this agreement, especially when it comes to Bethesda using id-tech (again JC): (from ign.com) So if people at Bethesda look into these things they may choose id tech for one of their next games. Imagine using virtual textures for an Elder Scrolls game. All the places unique and different, for the first time... --

ThiAf: Arbitrary Alliterations

Is it possible to set up a dual boot in that order? Does XP's bootloader recognize Vista? Or will it just dismiss it and set up the default single boot? --

This is so true. I'm on Linux now for most of the tasks, but before that I used XP for everyday work (and fun). The only trouble I ever had was the famous Blaster worm in 2003. Seems like I kept my system mostly unaffected by just following some easy rules: Create an extra account for non-administrative tasks and use it for all day tasks. If you are logged in as admin, do not surf the web. There is a crappy built in firewall in XP. Use it. Don't use IE, update your browser from time to time. I didn't want to waste resources on any backgrounding antivirus software. Once or twice a year I used to run a complete virus scan on my harddrive from a trusted unaffacted system (a bootable CD that came with a magazine), just to be sure everything is still safe. The biggest Issue I think is the first one. Windows makes you work as an admin by default. This is a first big step in the wrong direction and it can not be compensated by other software like an AV-Guard. --

Very good point. This is why I appreciate them doing another Thi4f (first time writing this I think it's just a typo), no matter how it will turn out. I'd like to add the perception of Dark Mod will not depend on the overall quality of it's FMs, but mostly on the good ones. Time is on it's side. On development being easier in the good old days: anyone ever done maps for Wolfenstein 3d? -- Those were easy. Well, and limited somehow. --

...there's an odd reading on my tricorder here... ...wait! It's a life sign! --

Springheel, for the money you are willing to spend you should find something decent. Since CRT and TFT displays are quite different it is a good idea to test your new screen in your home environment and see of it fits your needs or comes up with any flaws. That's why I only bought from local dealers, I returned two screens and kept the third one. For Thief or Darkmod black levels can become an issue. If there are lighter and darker areas on the screen where they are not supposed to be it can be disturbing, especially while moving. For more "research" I found hardforum.com to be useful as well as behardware.com. Prad.de should be considered but I found some of my screens to behave different as it has been presented in their reviews. --

Thank you. Thank you! THANK YOU!!! -

I don't think textures are a big issue right now. Since beta mappers are working already there should be enaugh to get people going. When the mod gets released there will be a (hopefully big) community that creates more materials with even better quality, but without the risk of legal issues. Why not just leave it alone and relax about it? -

Says "removed by user", so it could be anything. It didn't look good (quality wise) compared to the one linked by STiFU. -

Thanks for all the replies so far. ...that would be frob-babble. (Just couldn't resist...) I see that. Technically anything can be turned into a func_static. I have to admit I only played very few Fan Missions, so I don't know what people are used to expect right now. But IIRC in the original games these nice small crates were always frobs (I can say "frob", can I?). I wish I had the words to make myself clearer on that(not a native speaker). I see when something is frobable it isn't necessarily meant to be used in a mission. I referred to concepts a player uses (without knowing about them) to navigate in and interact with the game world. I didn't compare the two pallets in detail, but to me as a player they looked pretty much the same. The visual representation is the major way to identify objects in the game world (allthough sounds are also vital to a thief-like game). When you get used to such a world, you learn to connect the objects with their charecteristics. It doesn't have to be realistic. If you knock down a builder guard for example you can pick up his hammer and do things with it, but you cannot use it as a meele weapon. It's an easy concept you get used to and forget about. Same with doors (in OMs). The bad looking ones can't be opened, the metal ones can't be smashed. So the rule "if it highlights, it can be used" is sure simple and easy to learn. But it requires the player to activily go to a certain object and check it's characteristics. The visual representation of an object becomes neglected, you can no longer determine the behaviour of things by just looking at them. In case of two identical looking pallets it leads you to the question "But why me can pick up the one but not them other one?" -- and the answer to the question is clearly outside the game world (immersion break). That was my point. When I play a mission I don't want to be reminded of what the builder wants me to do and what not. I'm not much in relegion anyways. Though I admit the demo's map-layout sure is heavenly. On topic: I'm not asking the team to simply make two sorts of small crates: one that can be frobbed and another one with a different texture that usually will be used as a static object. I'm just asking to consider it for the reasons stated. Once the mod is released people will be able to do with it whatever they like anyhow. But maybe there could be something like general mission design guidelines, so players won't suffer from incoherencies between or in missions. Is that true? Are there technical limits for movables or frobables? I know there's an entity limit, but do they hit performance as long as they remain untouched? I tried to cover the unextinctable light near the "unpassable" front guard with the pallet. Not high enaugh, but maybe it works when I stack some planks on it. I agree realistic object manipulation opens up new ways in gameplay. But it also introduces new exploits. The pallet can be used to climb up to locations, that look like I wasn't supposed to be there. I like that, but it requires extra-suspicious beta-testers who try really hard to break the map. Simply call them Power-Rodents! -

. . . demo recording inside the engine still would be nicer. Smaller, no codec-issues. People may laugh at me, but it's an important feature. I think Looking Glass introduced it back in Ultima Underworld. In Thief food worked as an indicator for me. When I played for hours and got hungry I used to look for something to eat in my inventory. That's when you know you have been playing to long. And now for something completely. . . Object manipulation: I didn't mean to suggest it should be removed and replaced by some less sophisticated system like in Thief/Deus Ex etc. I am only anxoius about mappers overdoing it and turn their missions in some kind of 3d-Tetris with stealth elements. Since someone pointed me to the shift key it has become easier as well. Replaying it a new aspect bugs me: It seems like mappers can decide whether a movable can be frobbed or not. The pallet blocking the entrance to the sewers can be frobbed, the one blocking the window to the beggar's housing can only be manipulated indirectly. The same for crates, most are not even movable (found the hidden frobable one and was very happy about it's swimming capability, though it needs a little tweaking). In the end you end up with incoherencies in your map: the same visual representation requires different user interaction which can only be determined by getting close to it and see if it highlights. It's an easy task, but it breaks immersion. Whenever you examine if a crate is frobable, movable or static you are forced to think in terms of "Did the mapper want me to use this entity as a piece of the puzzle or is it just about eye-candy?" My suggestion would be to stream-line this and not leave the choice to mappers by default, so people can get used to the way things behave in the game world. Hope I didn't sound negative. Btw, forget anything i said about shouldering with the use key being uncomfortable and slow. Since I rebound use to "f" I don't even notice it anymore. -

Although I know about remapping I didn't consider it yet. Remapping "use" to something I am used to might be useful. Usually that would be "f", so I will have to remap "lean forward" as well. But non the less I felt the frob button to be underused -- so it's good to hear that will be tweaked. I want to frob doors open with the key in my hand. Exiting readables with the left mouse button is new to me -- I'll try that later. I remember the walking and running speed were set up to match the ones in Thief. So I am a little surprised I agree on running speed beeing to slow. Maybe it's the different environment or the field of vision has been wider in Thief. Dunno. Concerning NPCs throwing bottels Morre has a point. I love the feature but facing three guards with an unlimited bottle supply is not exactly balanced. Best would be to give them a limited amount of stuff they have in their pockets and when that's empty let them pick up a stone and throw it. The stone does not have to be there before and it requires only one extra animation. And of course, they should vary their behavior a bit randomly and not constantly pick up stones and throw them. On rats: You can kill rats. Just shoot them. They don't look exactly dead afterwards, they just stop moving. But that can be easily tweaked with an additional bloody texture. Oh, and: will food be edible one day? The stuff looks delicous in game, I'd like to taste it. Or is it already there and I missed the right button? -

I think Sparhawk referred to this one (it's low-res of course): http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=lBS-6epXPGc That T-Rex like creature sure looks cool. I agree on cutting the crap ending though. -

Hi everyone, couldn't find the feedback & discussion thread mentioned in the wiki, so just start this one. Thanks to the team for that enjoyable new demo. I just finished it and like to give some feedback. That would be 90 % positive, I apologize for focusing on the remaining 10 %: I have issues with some of the dark mod features and feel a little restrained by some of them. Maybe it has to do something with frobbing. In Thief there are many things you can do with the frob-button. World interaction mainly. It is quick, fast and easy. Dark Mod introduces more complex things here, which require more buttons and thus take more time. Examples: Object manipulation: The way you can make objects float in front of you and rotate them freely is sure a nice feature for a mapper to place things -- but does it really add to gameplay? I was fascinated by it at first, but when I had to move that pallet that was blocking my way to the sewers and I was supposed to carefully move it around the barrel and crate, whatever. Why not just frob it (pick up), walk to the window and frob it out? I am a little frustrated about things colliding with world objects constantly since I think the purpose of the game is not to fiddle around with these. Picking up bodys: Imagine you blackjacked Brenard (the priest) in the hallway. You hear the footsteps of the guard coming closer. You quickly want to get Brenard in the privies and hide him in the darkness. You frob a random body part. Then you look at your keyboard and search for the appropriate button you need to press to pick him up . Then you put your hand back on the mouse, move to the privies and start to search for [r], that is, if you are still alive. Chances are the guard hammered you to death by then. Hope you know what I mean. Readables: Not a big issue. I usually have no trouble learning the right keys -- but I constantly try exiting readables by hitting [ESC]. Other things: blackjacking still seems too hard for me, but maybe that's just bad skill. The bow works fine since I got used to it. Then we have the A.I.: same NPC talks in different voices, but I consider this beeing a work in progress. More important are exploits like the one where you can prevent the guards from opening a door by simply jamming it with broadhead arrows. I found they can not even pass an open door when you block their way with a candle since they try to walk around it. Maybe someone wants to teach them how to kick things. The "missile mode" turns out to be really cool and somehow believable. I didn't expect that from the descriptions. Still I think the number of bottles should not be unlimited unless the guard is a drunk. Technically everything worked fine for me. There are some framerate drops but that's okay considering my specs and the high resolution. Congratulations to the team. Even in its unfinished state I think Dark Mod is one of the biggest things that ever happened to the Doom3-engine. -