snatcher

This is a nightmare for both mappers and modders, and not only in the audio department. As far as I can tell, and unless you employ elaborated tricks, it is all or nothing. Things can change, though. EDIT - Wrong assumptions. Confirmed a few posts below.

Nah, forget it. It was a targeted message: somebody takes a position but later reacts to a post that goes in different directions and this is perceived as heresy.

Relevant people please stop reacting to my posts. It is causing you trouble recently.

The below video illustrates some of the points I tried to make earlier. This new (or returning) player is experiencing TDM for a first time and I would say his mood and style perfectly fit the primary target audience of TDM. The player is unaware that shouldering bodies is a thing. See how it plays out. 1st situation - From 00:00 until 03:30 2nd situation - From 27:30 until whenever you want The player quickly figured out how to drag and manipulate (turn around) bodies and I detect no sign of frustration. The circumstances even lead to a couple of comical moments. Sooner or later this player will get to know about shouldering bodies and he will, as it couldn't be otherwise, prioritize shouldering. It all has been learned organically and the player can now switch tactics if desired. Now consider this same player was playing 2.12. I don't see any reason for this or any other player to ever getting to learn or appreciate body manipulation. 2.12 teaches players to move grain sacks out of the way, devoiding any sign of "humanity" from ragdolls. @stgatilov commented ragdoll manipulation is something like an engine show-off. Considering the amount of work that went into the feature I tend to believe the mechanic was seen as an opportunity and built as such. Let's for a moment travel to a parallel universe and pretend the developers decided shouldering bodies alone was the way to go, just like in Thief. How long would have gone by until someone wondered: wouldn't dragging bodies be cool and more realistic? I agree that shouldering bodies could be done with one (long or short) click. The problem I have with the final implementation is that the case was presented one-sided and there was no retrospective or interest in alternatives. We took a shortcut and as a result we missed half of what the journey offered. We didn't think big. Besides that above, players are now exposed to: Unintentionally shouldering bodies while trying to retrieve items from bodies Unintentionally un-shouldering bodies when trying to operate doors @Daft Mugi & friends set out to do this change and I have no problem with that, but I feel this whole topic is unbalanced. Some points have been hardly considered or discussed so excuse that I insist. If anything, this topic will make it for a good read for those coming next in a few years time

Agree! EDIT - I have a vague memory of a T2 mission with a labyrinthine stair puzzle, probably inspired by the movie or by Escher's Relativity, but I don't remember the name of the FM

The Name of the Rose.

If you don't mind I will personally shelve all above considerations until somebody presents a real use case: hand-held device, 4:3 screen, multi-monitor setup, VR, a projector... I don't know.

I am bringing this here. From the instructions in ModDB: Rename tdm_base01.pk4 in your darkmod directory to tdm_base01.pk4.old Wouldn't it be better to offer this as a "z" (zzz or whatever) mod? It could have it's own z_fresnel_mod.pk4 name.

I hope this gets resolved. If there is one case there can be another one or many more. By not fixing it mappers must update their best practices book and raise ceilings by a few units. Far from ideal.

I just added (in-game) a background color to the rectangle of the "Acquired" message for better reference. I think you better let it be Some players might make the light-gem a little smaller or larger and these players have been serviced. Players with tiny or huge HUD elements are on their own (and they know it!)

I made wrong assumptions in the previous attempt and I would say this is the right SUBTITLE_BASE_Y we want in [tdm_subtitles_message.gui]: #define SUBTITLE_BASE_Y (379 - (20*("gui::bigTextSize"-1) + 32*("gui::lightgemSize"-1) + 14*("gui::lightgemSize"*"gui::barSize"-1)) - 52*SUBTITLE_IDX) Some tests and examples for small HUD, default HUD, large HUD. The green rectangle is where the "acquired" messages are displayed. Subtitles are dynamically position right above them. I couldn't get all three blocks to show up at the same time but almost: This little change is good to go, imho.

I just want you guys to happily keep working on this project, delivering subtitles @stgatilov has incorporated many changes already in his version. If we do something else that feels right, he might evaluate further changes. @Geep, do you feel comfortable on getting the dynamic positioning right? I am sure you do.

It is not perfect, but it can be. The downsides are: New dependency with a different gui. If [tdm_inv.gui] changes in certain areas [tdm_subtitles_message.gui] should change accordingly. Players with a huge lightgem and/or "acquire" text might sometimes get subs above the middle of the screen. I say these players should expect that to happen and wouldn't worry about it.

It isn't that difficult, but it looks a little ugly code-wise. In the latest version from @stgatilov found in this post just replace: #define SUBTITLE_BASE_Y (379 - 52 * SUBTITLE_IDX) with: EDIT - Removed because it was wrong. Check this post. Mind you! this again is a quick hack with no guarantees. Code must be properly assessed if we go for it.

Is there anything in place or are there plans to technically support subtitles in languages other than English? A possible implementation could be similar to mission language packs, where packs are downloaded separately using the built-in downloaded.

Today could very well be the birth of the "Run & Roll" mechanic (I am serious).

Very interesting reading, Welli. Here is a different spin when it comes to new players. The number one selling point of TDM within its genre is content. Thanks to talented and dedicated artists such as yourself we now have around 175 self contained stories. I would say TDM crossed the barrier from medium to high selling point with the 100th release. From this point on it doesn't matter if the game offers a hundred or a thousand maps. A hundred maps is A LOT already. Want content? Look no further. Requisite fulfilled. The number two selling point is... you tell me. Free? Open Source? Multi OS? Map editor? Being maintained? Just like with any form of entertainment people will either love TDM at first sight, tolerate it and even get to like it, or simply dismiss it. No amount of small tweaks can fundamentally change TDM and certain changes may end up dividing the community. My ultimate goal here is to make this community aware of the potential of a healthy modding scene to attract artists and experts in all departments and feed hungry and demanding players. Mods can be the second selling point of TDM: thief it your way.

We should look to have dynamic references based on HUD preferences. Boring stuff, I know.

It may seem I am pushing for my solution and (despite having a preference and) considering this can be easily modded I won't be betting on one or the other (or another). Subs with a background have been put to the test for some time now and are reliable. The outline is new an untested. Regarding colors, from a small research of subs on TV I learned that, in the color era, yellow text apparently was once the standard since legibility was (and is) considered superior over any background color. Time went by and white became the standard since legibility is good but it isn't as jarring as yellow. I am not sure how well any of this translates to games.

@Daft Mugi, Please spare us from this. You are entitled to your own opinion and vision but you aren't the voice of them players. You sound as if you felt compelled to do it. You decided to step forward now go and put yourself upfront, defend your position, address user concerns and acknowledge criticism. Be real, just like the old guard.

Disclaimer. By voting in this pool: You legitimate the change in its entirety regardless of the setting being voted. You legitimate the result of the setting for 100% of the players regardless of the number of votes. We reserve the rights to implement whatever we think it's best for you regardless of the result.

Realism is for simulators and even then, there must be compromises. Reasonable is the right word for TDM. Regarding player movement it really depends on the character and how you want players to feel in his shoes. Is this a vulnerable veteran thief or a sneaky young cat? In this regard the increased mantle speed and the (single) grunt sound convey opposite connotations, imho.

Thank you. Here is an updated version of "Outlined Yellow" based in your latest code. The image of the ring is no longer fully transparent and it comes with an outline now for improved clarity. Base colors of the image are now shades of grey and the color of the widget is now changed by making use of the matcolor property so that colors of both the widget and the text could change simultaneously via user input. z_Subs_212_Outlined_Yellow_20240108.pk4

@stgatilov, would you mind sharing your latest version of tdm_subtitles_message.gui?

What I found is that changing the color of the text by using the escape character [^] is a feature of the Doom 3 engine and not something created for the subs in TDM. What is happening in your "extremely bolted" example is that when using a color other than the default we are also rendering all eight "shadows" in that other color, hence the bold appearance. The above solution doesn't solve a thing and I cannot think of anything other than having the source code deliver a copy of the subtitles stripped from color escape characters. In any case, imagine for a second you are watching a TV series and each episode comes with subs in different colors...