STiFU

Store the attached files in your darkmod folder. Activate old vs new speeds via "exec OldMantleSpeeds.cfg" or "exec NewMantleSpeeds.cfg", respectively. I am surprised to find that pm_mantle_pullFast was actually decreased by 50 ms. I did not catch that during Code-Review. Why was this done? Now the regular pull and the fast pull are almost identical. NewMantleSpeeds.cfg OldMantleSpeeds.cfg

You got the short answer because you presented incorrect information "our save system steals your acquired loot" and you asked for a change in functionality in a very pushy way. The correct way to start this thread would have been somethine like the following: Please note that all developers, myself included, work on TDM on their freetime for fun and for free, and pushy requests like this and offending developers are the most efficient ways to NOT get something implemented in the game. (Asking for "a real admin" doesn't help your case much either, I am afraid)

100% correct. Also, in some cases, you might want to create a named save and then revert to your latest quicksave. This would not be possible of quickload were always to load the latest save. @CrisiusXIII now that you know how typical saving systems work, I suggest to use this very easy workaround: After creating a named save, either remember next time that your latest save was a named save and load that the regular way, or simply create a quicksave after the named save. However, then I would ask, why would you even create that named save in the first place?

That sort of tone doesn't fly in our forums.

Quickload loads your quicksave-slot, not the latest save. It's as simple as that. FYI: Your thread title is wildly misleading.

This extension of the new control scheme is included in 2.12 beta. If you want to try it, you can enable it through the cvar tdm_holdfrob_drag_all_entities.

DEATHLOOP has never been a stealth game. It has some stealth mechanics, but it is clearly intended to be an asynchronous multiplayer shooter with mild rogue-elements, wrapped in a nice mystery-adventure. Honestly, the gameplay idea is genius, but you have to like multiplayer in order to be able to really enjoy this game. Playing it offline is really not as exciting.

Other than Redfall, Arkane really didn't do anything wrong in recent years in my oppinon, and that game was publisher ordered, so it doesn't count! DEATHLOOP is awesome, if you embrace the multiplayer part of it.

I do enjoy oldschool looking games with modern tech. This one however is lacking the modern tech part. The lighting looks really boring. Should've used proper GI lightmaps or something to make it look more interesting. Compare this to AMID EVIL, Prodeus or Graven, and you'll know what I mean.

I mean, let's not kid ourselves: We are a niche! Of course the top 100 don't reflect what we like to play. Although, I like action games quite a bit. I play a boomer shooter at least once a year! I just love dodging projectiles while juggling tons of guns and moving crazy fast (really looking forward to the full release of Graven in January, which at least visually should be to the liking of many around here). You will (almost) never see me playing a tactical shooter, 'though.

Me to, absolutely loved it because of that. By the way, if you need more of that, the survival game "Green Hell" is king in delivering that feeling. The game saves your progress only when sleeping, so every day, some progress is on the line, which creates the needed tension. From my Steam-Review:

Isn't that even shown in the trailer? That feature is probably the reason why no "toys" can be found anywhere on the station. ;D

I guess the easiest solution would be to let the save restriction be the only difference between expert and hard. Just to be clear, the modifiers/mutators I have in mind would apply to all missions for people that seek an extra challenge. In other words, they would not be controlled by the FM author. So this is probably not suitable for your specific problem.

Same area, yes, but the challenge changes every time, as the enemies are pseudo-randomized.

I guess it's a matter of taste. I for one loved it, because it felt a lot more intense than the base game, due to the rogue-lite mechanic, and it forced you to explore other abilities as well and really learn the ins and outs of the game.

Fully agree. Do it right, if at all. As I said, I was just brainstorming what other things could be done via optional mutators. Also, of course if a player enabled mutators, there's no guarantee that the mission if finishable with those, so there should be some form of disclaimer saying that FMs weren't designed with these mutators in mind and that they might not work properly. The existence of mutators should ideally never affect any mapper in their work.

I am 100% on board with optional bonus challenges (mutators) you can activate before launching an FM. Could be a nice project for me for 2.13. As posted in the "Hazard Pay" thread, my idea for a save restriction mutator is that you pay for each save with some resource like a water arrow or a health potion. Something that hurts, to make players who seek the tension think twice about saving. Another mutator idea was "Ghost", i.e., mission fails as soon as stealth score turns non-zero and blackjacking is disabled. I wonder why everybody jumped on the save restriction topic, instead of this mutator, which would be really useful for quite a few players, wouldn't it?

No need to create a new thread, @MirceaKitsune. Snatcher already posted one.

So, I've got a confession to make: Up until recently, I hadn't really played a full FM in quite some time as I only did the occasional playtesting. I am currently trying to catch up and boy did I miss some gems! This FM is one of them and easily one of my all-time favorites. The save-system on expert combined with the incredible athmosphere of your mission created a tension I haven't felt in a Thief-style game in a long, long time. Thank you, thank you, thank you and bravo @kingsal. TDM and its mappers have really come a long way, competing high up there with commercial productions. Your FM inspired me in two ways: At one point, I died due to my character not jumping off a slope, eventhough I felt like I pressed jump at the right time. I think everybody of us knows this issue and you always have this kind of in the back of your head that you don't jump when the ground is not perfectly even. This failed jump was of course very annoying due to the saving constraints, so I instantly started thinking how we could solve this. There's a technique known primarily from platformers but also from FPS like Doom Eternal, and that technique is called "Coyote Time". It allows the player to jump for some short timespan after leaving a platform. We should maybe explore something similar for TDM, to make jumping off slopes more reliable. We have to be careful to not allow the player to cross further distances this way of course. I loved the save restriction and the tension it create so much, that I want more of it. I started to brainstorm and remembered the optional game mutators from Unreal back in the day. These mutators allowed you to enable extra challenges or modified physics etc. for your game. Coming back to the save restriction, a respective mutator for TDM could be that each savegame costs some resource. Some resource that hurts, like a water arrow or a health potion, to make the player think twice about saving. A mutator like that would honestly be my default play-setting, I think. Other obvious mutators could be "Ghost" (missions fails as soon as the stealth score is non-zero and blackjacking is disabled), "Ironman" (no saves), "Strong Enemies" (enemies hit harder, have more health). I shall follow up on both of these points soon.

Prey is much less stealth focused than TDM, so hiding bodies serves much less of a purpose. Much like System Shock actually. By the way, you should also give the System Shock 1 Remake a shot. While its probably best enjoyed, if you already played the original, it's still a great game anyway.

Congratuliations on the release and what incredible quality for a first-timer. The story was really neat and felt very authentic. Gameplay-wise, I also had a lot of fun, although it got really messy at times. You see, I like to play with the rule to only reload when I am dead, so I am forced to play through my mistakes, which can be really fun. A mistake in this mission often meant, that almost all the guards got alerted because a huge portion of the mansion is connected without any doors. And with so many guards, trouble often snowballed, which made this mission pretty difficult. So many guards in one spot also very frequently lead to AI misbehavior like continuously running into a wall etc. For your future missions (hoping there weill be more), I would suggest to split up areas more so that not so many guards come flocking on you on a single mistake.

The hold-type-grabber means that you hold the mouse button to drag an entity and when you release, you drop the entity. That of course doesn't work on a short-press frob, as pressing shortly is the opposity of holding down the frob button for as long as you wish to drag an entity, i.e., it is mechanically impossible. That's why I said that @snatcherprobably rather meant the toggle-type-grabber on short-press, i.e., press frob once to grab an entity, press frob again to release the entity (traditional TDM style). And this I'd feel uncomfortable to go through with as explained in my previous two comments.

Sorry, but that is mechanically impossible. ^^ I am going to assume that you didn't mean the Hold-Grabber, but the Toggle-Grabber on Short Press. To that, I would like to raise two comments: There has already been a huge discussion about this topic that I didn't partake in. I only see the result of this discussion, which is the current implementation, and I wouldn't feel comfortable to just ignore this and do something else. What you are asking for is not a simple extension, but a different code-path, which makes things messy, and the frob-code is already quite messy as it is. I understand where you are coming from, but please understand that I don't feel comfortable to go through with it. Also, our lead dev also has a say in this and I doubt he will be happy to open up more code-paths. You still have the original control scheme to fall back on, if it is so important to you to have the Toggle-Grabber on short press.

The second Styx game is a very nice Stealth game, very similar to Thief actually (except that it's third person) and much better than the first title. I hope anyone got this game. If not, it is still on 85% sale right now.

Kinda feels like I threw a live grenade into a dung pit by necroing this thread. Anyway, it seems like there is some agreement with my current work on both sides of the pit, as it will make the control scheme a bit more consistent, while leaving the general new control scheme intact. I have a working prototype that implements the following table. Contrary to the previous table, hold-type-grabber for loot and tools is not possible, as the long-press frob is already tied to multiloot (pickup multiple items successively without releasing the frob button). This extension is enabled via cvar, i.e., completely optional.