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kingsal last won the day on December 29 2020

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  1. I use a ton of bounced lights as well, even in large spaces. Its true they can really add up if you arent careful, but at least in my case turning them to noshadow is what keeps the frame rate from tanking Also from my understanding its moreso about the amount of surfaces those lights touch. So if you have 2 direct lights and 2 bounced lights on a pile of objects, there will be a noticeable drop in perf. I can't say that turning those bounce lights off will be less noticeable, in fact it might be the opposite in my case. I guess it all depends on how the author uses them.
  2. Right on, thanks for the clarity. Yeah it looks like just reducing object count /light interactions the good ole fashion way will have the most impact. Ill see if I can put something together.
  3. Yeah this is tricky, frivolous shadow rays *used* to be a big issue, but with all the renderer and GPU updates maybe not? I wonder if transparents, alpha tests, and FXs are bigger culprits now. Having a light touching a glass window with fog and trees behind it might be a worse case scenario. Would switching to a "less expensive" lighting model at a distance be beneficial or even feasible? Are there less accurate, but cheaper lighting methods outside of just shadow/ no shadow? What about texture resolutions? Would rendering less pixels at distance do anything for us? Sorry just kind of troubleshooting here. @MirceaKitsune @duzenko I think the proper approach here would be to open up a heavy map like TPW or the opening shot in your FM Mircea, and look into the impact lights, emitters, transparents, ect are having on it. I'm sure turning off lights will have an impact, but doing it in an elegant manner might not feasible. I'll look into this a bit more this weekend and see if I can really prove that dropping lights out can A: give back enough performance in enough situations to warrant the change and B: actually be done in such a way that isn't glaring to the player.
  4. Got it. Regardless we should be able to get light models to hide if not the lights themselves.
  5. Yeah its possible that lights are harder to do, but maybe more feasible in a dynamic-only light engine like doom 3.
  6. Also we should probably discuss light clipping and lighting techniques in a different thread as that's own can of worms. @duzenkoSo for the hide_distance stuff it looks like these things would be helpful to add to the list: Func_rotating and other movers? SEED (more so investigate why they aren't working properly) Lights, specifically entities that spawn lights and FX. If we can get a gentle fade out / in on all those things that would be incredible. Basically we'd have an industry standard system. I can see lots of cases where gradually dropping out lights and objects at distance will significantly help performance on larger maps or outdoor areas. Also being able to fade out FX when you get close to them is valuable for stuff like fog. This helps prevent "washing out" the screen when you get close to an emitter.
  7. Yeah you might be able to use a spot light, but that wont work for most of our custom light entities which use volume lights. There are definitely ways around this problem. My point it is they are fiddly and time consuming and in some cases require specific engine knowledge. It might be easier for a mapper to just hide that light at a distance or yeah draw some kind of clipping volume.
  8. @peter_spy Yeah so I had to turn off a couple things to get it to work, new front end renderer and obviously use stencil lights. You might also have disable uncapped FPS. @duzenkoNo unfortunately you cant clip light volumes in that way. You can move the volume to fit the space so it doesnt go outside the wall and then adjust the center. However, thats pretty time consuming and it wont work for lights that spawn and attach things to their entity origin, torch flames for intance. A lot of authors use the custom light objects that automatically def_attach lights and FX, so those rely on the center and origin being the same. it would be pretty useful if we had a kind of brush that just acted as a light clip volume that stopped the shadow rays. It would give us more explicit control for sure.
  9. Edit: Keep in mind in the top image, the light debugger is showing where the light is bleeding through so thats why you see the back wall illuminated.
  10. Okay so Ive updated the test map to reflect this. Maybe this isn't an issue with shadow mapping, but I dont know. Dmap and then load it up lodfade.map So this is the common scenario. A light inside a closed portal is still bleeding through the walls and shadowing the boxes on the outside of the building. Obviously if I add a door we won't have this problem, but this isn't always feasible. In complex spaces this happens a lot. Now if I could just hide that light at a certain distance I can eliminate that problem. There might be other ways to fix this problem, but once again in complex spaces (which are most city missions) this happens more than you would think. Its not a systemic solution, but it could give mappers more control.
  11. Awesome for mappers, as it will give us another avenue for controlling light count and performance. Ill agree that its an edge case, but if we are supporting lights with models hiding or fading out a distance, street lamps for instance, wouldn't we need code to turn lights off anyhow?
  12. Being able to hide lights at a distance would be helpful actually. Better yet being able to fade them out gently would be awesome. There are cases where lights bleed through walls and being able to just turn them off with a distance check would be a very quick and easy way to prevent that. Controlling that with scripts is a mess, imo.
  13. The particle on the right alpha blends I believe.
  14. @HMartFade in/ out is possible in TDM, see the test map below. The glow and grass textured planes will fade in and out. @duzenko @stgatilov Pasting from discord: Here is the test map I put together based on an old one Peter_spy had: lodfade_example.pk4 Couple bugs I noticed right off the bat: Light entities will not hide Strangely the SEED entity hides different func_static children at different distance even though they are set the same Any hide or LOD setting on SEEDs don't seem to propagate to their children. Didnt thoroughly test this though Fade only works with those specific materials in the material folder. Lod_fadeout_range controls the fade distance. This is absolute from the origin of the object and needs to be higher than the hide_distance. So its starts fading at the hide distance. Im not sure why its called lod_fadeout_range, maybe it fades after the last LOD stage? Im not sure but we'll need to investigate this. I assume if no LOD is set it just starts from the hide_distance.
  15. @peter_spyReally? Thats great. Do you have an example of that material set up? I swore I read somewhere that doom can't do alpha blends, maybe that get patched into TDM at some point.. I dunno. @nbohr1more @duzenko I can throw in some lights and other func statics in the test map so we can test stuff like that.
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