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This was first raised in 105 and since that's now closed, I just wanted there to be a place to possibly discuss further. There are several ways to approach the issue of opening and closing the floating dialogs in the editor. DoomEd works by allowing most dialogs to be toggled on/off with a press of the same key twice. OrbWeaver raised the valid issue that this is not always desirable because there is word typeahead for many dialogs. Then there is the option to close them all with Esc (like DoomEd). Greebo raised a valid point against ESC, in that many times you want the dialog to stay up while you work on, for instance, different brush faces or light entities. Finally, there is the option to always be required to click to close a dialog (puke). I think with all of these angles considered, the best option is to allow the keypress toggle functionality to remain, as long as they are/remain remappable. This way, the user is able to change the light editor from J to Alt-J, if they so choose; such a shortcut, chosen well, won't get in the way of typeahead, it won't close when attempting to deselect (with ESC) and select another light, and it can still be opened and closed without a mouseclick. And ultimately, it's left up to the user whatever they prefer.

Oh holy shit, this is awesome. I've only used it about 5 mins so far, but lemme give quick thoughts while they're in my head: - I assume the fact that you can't use ESC to deselect a face while the textool has focus is intentional, because it deselects vertices? Understandable if so. - Doesn't seem like you can currently undo a change - Any chance to make the window extend as far as we want (repeat the texture), or have the control points wrap around? [Edit: wait a second.. maybe that's not necessary; I cleared the selection (two arches like yours above) and then reselected, and I guess the too resized itself to show more of the texture space)] [Double Edit: nevermind completely - I see you can pan the texture around - I was trying to resize the window; user error] - I seem to be unable to get what you have in your image above, one brush face + patches selected. Once I add the different type, textool goes blank/black. [Edit: nevermind! user error. Both selected items must have the same texture as stated above] Edit: I can't select brush vertices to manipulate them individually, but I'm guessing that's going to be impossible. I think? Edit: Thinking further on that question, I must admit I'm not sure at all. If a user were to grab the bottom row of a rectangular face, for instance, they could drag it down for a scale operation. However, what if they only pulled one vertex down? There could be a non-orthogonal warp or even twist of a texture. Not sure if that's possible. Edit: A couple of suggestions: 1. A method to select all from a given face. Like "L" in Blender (if I remember correctly). This way the user can grab all and move them out of the way, or move them as a whole, etc. Makes it easier when another face is in front of it. 2. Retain selection when faces are added or subtracted. Currently, all selected control points are cleared when a new face is selected or deselected. Makes it harder to work with two or more patches which are all textured the same (and are thus occupying the same space. This is a really incredible addition. Back to it, I doubt I'm going to be able to digest all the possibilities on this quickly. Most edited post evar! Getting groggy. Making less sense. Need sleep.

Just read about komags attempted return to ttlg... I then put a post up in the general section http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112346 Lets see how long it stays up there for.. biker Update: I Pm'd some of the mod's and got this unexpected reply... I do realise the frustration some people feel over the Komag banning. And I also don't expect for a second that anyone believes me when I say I don't have a damned thing against him as a person and that he will probably always be one of the top five Saints of TTLG (if ever such a thing exists) due to his near single-handedly kicking the editing and fan mission community back to life and then doing far more than pretty much anyone else to keep it breathing until it was capable of standing up again. I think the above is never said because it honestly doesn't really need to be said. No one's under any illusions about his contributions to the Thief community, which is why the way everything ended was such a stupid and needless thing. But the tale of TTLG v. Komag is long, exceptionally Long, nobody wanted to ban him, and a lot of time and effort was spent trying to figure out a way to resolve things without it getting that far. In the end, however, the decision wasn't up to us. So we have what we have. Admins - Please lock this thread and remove all posts after this one, also change the title to just "Komag's ghost" (remove the ttlg admins are bitchy, as clearly some of them or not) please. I request this In the spirit of the ttlg admin who replied to my PM.

http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112036 You will likely need to go through the TTLG FAQ to find the fixes he mentions.

That's what I meant in the above post with "vertex merging (like Alt-M in Blender)". I'm currently working on the brush faces, if everything goes well, I'll have that in till I go to sleep. edit: updated my first post

SneaksieDave, I've got something you will probably like Download the latest snapshot here: http://208.49.149.118/TheDarkMod/DarkRadia..._latest_SVN.zip I rewrote the TextureTool (mostly from scratch) so that it has its own window now instead of being an attachment to the Surface Inspector. You probably will have to assign a shortcut in the Shortcut Editor for now (the command is named TextureTool). Things that work - The texture space of the selected objects is visualised. Similar to Blender, but infinite. - U/V coord editing of the seleceted Patches. Changes are updated in realtime. - Zooming and origin mouse drag is analogous to the XYView (they use the same buttons/modifiers) - Multiple vertex controls can be selected and translated at the same time. - Drag rectangle selection of multiple vertices. - Only objects using the very same shader can be edited in the TexTool (everything else wouldn't make sense). - Brush Face support (whole brushes as well as single faces) - Better visual representation of the patches/brushes. - Grid Display (Resize grid with Shift-Plus and Shift-Minus) - Grid Snapping of the U/V operations - Grid Snapping of selected items (Shift-G) - ESC is propagated to the main window if nothing is selected. - Most important commands are available via the Toolbar - Vertex U/V "merging" (standard shortcut: Alt-M). - All operations are undo-able Things that don't work yet / things that are planned - Disable the display of "ineffective" patch vertices (not every control vertex of a patch is actually used regarding its texture coords). Please try it out and give me feedback!

You can see the dimensions when you are dragging the brush size? That's probably good enough I think

The only realistic possibility I can see is a "Create cuboid brush with the following dimensions" option, but that wouldn't be much easier than just creating a default brush and dragging it to the desired size using the dimensions display.

Hm, I'm not sure if that is easily possible. isn't there an arbitrary number of possibilities how the brush should be stretched? Which face would be dragged in which direction? Or do you mean that it's stretched proportionally? edit: Thinking about this, I believe it would be necessary to compute the winding vertices, apply the requested scaling to them, and then recalculate the face planes. Could be a bit complicated though.

It wouldn't have to be that complex though. If the brush is odd shaped, it would just stretch it in the dimension requested.

The reason why this is happening is that everything you see in the Surface Inspector is faked texture shift/scale/rotation values. The real texture stuff is stored in matrix form (a condensed form of these values, similar to a hash of a clear-text password). The values of this 2x3 matrix are visible in the map file in those brush face definitions. This is the way Doom 3 expects the texture definition to be passed. It's possible to calculate back the shift/scale/rotation from this matrix, but it's not an injective operation, because of the trigonometric function sin() and cos() involved. Once the matrix is stored in the face, it's not possible to retrieve the very same shift/scale/rotation you have entered in the inspector, the result may be an equivalent, but different one. I spent several hours breeding over this, and I'm pretty sure now that there is no way around it apart from some dirty hacks that are appropriate for some cases and some not. Remains the question why the "old" surface inspector did not exhibit this behaviour. The answer is that the old dialog left the shift/scale/rotation values in the entry fields (the spinner buttons) and emitted them every time they were changed. The pay-off of this were multiple selected faces being "assimilated" to the chosen settings (became jumpy), not changed relatively, like the new Surface Inspector does. (*sigh*, I somehow feel what's coming next).

You mean to enter the brush dimensions by hand? This could be hard to do as brushes are sometimes complex-shaped. You can, however, choose "Show Size Info" somewhere in the view menu or in the preferences to display the current brush dimensions. This in combination with the grid should usually do the trick.

You'll need to download the actual mod, then install it and get a couple things set up with Dark Radiant, then you're in business. Download links and instructions are in the Beta Testing forums and on the wiki. I meant to have a good beginner setup tutorial ready, but it's not done yet, sorry.

Yeah I'm sure he just means Dark Radiant. I haven't seen a place to put in numbers for brush dimensions, but it may be there and I just haven't seen it. If it's not, it would be a nice feature to request.

Thanks I did make it rather fast, in under 2 days. I really want to get going if I can, all I really need are textures and a direction and I will get started as soon as possible. I'm very eager at the moment because I'm currently on my reading break and I have no mid-terms or final exams in sight. How will I know if I've been accepted and how soon? I'd like to begin even tonight if possible. I am assuming that this forums is where you get judged on whether or not you can help the mod, is this correct?

For someone who spends way too much time on internet forums, your knowledge of the associated vocabulary is evidently quite lacking. The above describes you perfectly.

The number of postings is a pretty weak argument, since you can't really determine what has been done with it. And when you consider that only a very tiny part of it is posted in the public forums, the number on it's own has absolutely no meaning for team members.

Sorry, I forgot to include the arrow bitmaps into the package. I thought about a checkbox "Assimilate all selected Faces" that makes the dialog behave like the "old" Surface Inspector (change a value and all face texture definitions are set to the specified values, regardless if they jump around or not). Same as with the bitmaps, I forgot to include the user.xml file containing the default settings. Thanks! I found out that Axial is actually not a projection on the xy, yz and xz planes, but the same as "Natural" for brushes. Axial just applied the default texture scale with 0,0 shift to the brush faces, which is nearly the same as "Natural" for patches (which works with the default scale as well). Default Scale is used for "Natural". I considered it handy to have this setting right where you need it (next to the Natural button, instead of buried in the preferences dialog). This way you can quickly choose your texture scale that "Natural" will make use of. See above. Use "Natural" for the brush faces to "simulate" Axial. As the changes are relative, the texture matrix gets recalculated each step. I think I can get control of the rounding effects, but the rotation jump is a consequence of the matrix being normalised in each calculation (it somehow seems to "convert" the scale into a "rotation"). I hope this behaviour doesn't screw up the texture, I haven't checked that yet. As above, but this time it seems to be a bug. I'll have to investigate. Thanks for testing!

I'm not sure how much feedback you wanted? If not much, ignore the following. - arrow buttons have no arrows (they're blank) - I must admit it's disconcerting seeing the shader box empty and the shift, etc. boxes greyed out when a whole brush is selected. Feels broken somehow, although I do understand the intention. Maybe it feels.. lonely? - step values are not populated; suggest some nice defaults. Without them, the buttons don't do anything, of course. Maybe if possible remember these values too. - flip buttons = awesome! - it seems like it remembers dialog size and position = nice! - Axial is greyed out on brushes and patches.. maybe not implemented yet? - I'm not sure what 'default scale' does? - I can't repro the defect entry (104), because I can't use Axial - Something seems wrong with the scaling math. Here are a few test cases: 1. I start with a brush textured natural. Select a face, and note that it is textured at 0.5 scale. Set interval to 0.1 and start going up. Okay, seems fine. Start going down. When it gets to 0.2, the next jump is 0.099999 (just a rounding imprecision I guess), but then at 0, it actually changes the vertical scale and the rotation, too (-0.5 and -180, respectively). One more click down and it goes to -214748.4. (I guess it's rolling over?) 2. start with the 0.5 scaled brush face again. Set the step to 0.9 Hit down repeatedly. It goes 0.4, 0.5, 0.4, 0.5, etc., the whole while with vertical and rotation changes registering. 3. vertical sizing shows a different behavior from horizontal when going negative - it then flips and grows large again. Not sure which behavior is right (probably this one) but horiz and vert don't agree. Anyway, you probably already know all of this, but I wasn't sure if you wanted me to test or just comment. Hopefully there's some useful information for you here.

Well while we're ranting... I went to a Catholic school when I was young, and it was run by nuns. By and by, it was alright, nothing bad happened really - it was just the stupid traditions that fuck with your head. Like, we were introduced to the rosemary beads, and you had to say one prayer for each of this bead, and on this day you say 2 for this other colour... etc. somthing really arbitraty and stupid. So of course, being a kid, you don't remember to do things consistently, so I was worrying about what effect that would have. And then, one day, some guy came in and talked to the class, and introduced us to this thing (that I can't remember what it's called) basically looked like 2 tags that you hung around your neck, so one tag is at the front and one tag is at the back. And the idea is, that if you happen to die while wearing it - you get straight to heaven, no matter what you did. So we all wore it for a while, and it was really uncomfortable cause it would slip backwards and strangle you all the time, and I couldn't shake the feeling of confusion, that if I could have put into words, would have sounded like "okay, the right way to do things was already decreed by god like, ages and ages ago in the bible - so how come we didn't know about this before? Why is it new? How can you have "new technological developments" in religion?" And then, I had to move to another state, so I just missed out on receiving my um... reconciliation I think its called - something you have to do when you're a teenager, involves talking to a priest or something. We were told that we had to have this done, because, when you're a kid, you commit all sorts of sins that you don't know you did, so you need to do this, or else, well we told "You don't have to have your reconciliation, but if you don't, you'll have all these sins there, soo..." we probably wouldn't go to heaven. So I spent a while worrying about that for a year or so untill I just found all the different ways to do the same thing really stupid and confusing and just naturally started to question the entire point of religion. And thus, without any discussion between us, me and my brothers eventually ditched the whole catholic thing, much to the initial shock of our parents when they found out. They thought they failed, etc. I can't imagine why anyone would stay so attached to religion after rubbish like that. This is just the natural conclusion.

I have been watching these forums and decided to start a fun poll. How stealthy are you?

With that firey discussion in the off-topic forums about hanging onto the T2 engine, I'm surprised there's a debate about this I went out and bought a cheap DX9 compatible card just to play T3, since it flatly refused to run on anything less. The release date of this game is only going to become later and later, not earlier, so our chances of people not caring that it won't work with DX8 is going to only become less as time goes on.

Yeah, I've asked about that eariler, Pink, and the consensus seems to be that it's possible. I'd like to do that (eventually) for things the AI will do a lot, like walking/running/searching, etc, so they don't all move exactly in sync. http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=5157

This is from the bug #104 from SneaksieDave, I will post my response here: I can confirm this, although I suspect this is not a bug, just a weakness of the surface inspector. When all the faces are textured with "fit", the texture matrix of each face is accustomed to fit the shader image. As each face is differently oriented, each matrix is also different. There is no chance for the surface inspector to display all the various shift/scale/rotations for all selected faces, so it falls back to display the shift/scale/rotation of _one_ of the selected faces. Hitting the manipulators once again, all the faces are textured with the _same_ matrix again, therefore the images get jumpy. Possible solutions: - Only texture one face at a time (as you already suggested, which is most probably the practical case). - I disable the display of the texture shift/scale/rotation when more than one brush face is selected (because the values are ambiguous in that case).

I was curious and re-enabled the compilation of this ominous TexTool (which was disabled compiler directives) and surprisingly it compiled without complaints. This is what I found: Pretty damn cool, if you ask me. It basically visualises the location of the selected brush face in texture space and allows you to manipulate the thing with mouse clicks (translation/rotation). The behaviour is similar to the UV mapper in blender, but without vertex drag manipulation. And it only works for single brush faces. Judging from the comments in the code, it most probably has some major flaws (being the reason why it was disabled in the first place), but I feel an urge to get that tool working! I put up a new snapshot for this tool so that SneaksieDave can have a look at it too: http://208.49.149.118/TheDarkMod/download/...8.x.rev1004.zip