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I tweaked my castle-wall texture a bit and made a normalmap for it. both are on the ftp - here a test-screenshot of the texture in thief 3: http://www.dark-project.com/BlackThief/cas-wall-screen1.jpg

We could start sending out chain letters. "Dear Sir or Madam Today is your lucky day! When you woke up this morning I bet you didn't expect to recieve a GOOD LUCK LETTER in the mail today, did you? Oh, I'm sure you didn't. Most don't. But if you have belief in your heart and follow the 4 easy steps below then you can have all the FAME and FORTUNE you can handle. Here's what you need to do: 1. Make 10 copies of this letter 2. Insert a crisp 50 dollar bill into an envelope and forward it to The Dark Mod 2114 Mack Smith Street Seattle, Wahington 37404 3. Send the 10 copies of this letter to your closest friends and family 4. Wait for FAME and FORTUNE Those that followed these simple steps were repaid beyond their wildest dreams! A man in Texas sent this out to his 10 closest friends and recieved a BAR of GOLD from the SKY which was worth 10,000 DOLLARS! How easy could it be? Yes, friend, it truly is that easy. But the price of failure is equally as great. A stupid kid like you from West Virginia decided that chain letters were for chumps...CHUMPS...and threw it away without forwarding the letter OR the money! 2 days later he fell into a combine harvester and got his legs chewed off. Now his friends call him stumps....STUMPS! If he had just sent his letters he would be running through amber fields of grain holding on to his SKY GOLD! So what will it be, friend? Will you send your letter? Better decide soon, time is running out Sincerely -Fingernail" I think it could work.

kyo, that work on your site is beautiful. The Dark Mod is certainly picking up the members. Good luck guys.

Wow, a man of many talents. Coming up with concepts for furniture by doing some research into the relevent time periods is something that needs to be done. I like the museum stand for that reason. The concept art for T3 involved a lot of dynamic sceans and good use of colour, that gave designers a lot to work from. In comparison, that shot of the room with the light on the wall is really bland, in terms of colours, archetecture, and overall feel. When the concept art was drawn with the camera at a really dramatic angle, you might think "well, the camera angle itself isnt' saying much - your viewpoint moves around all the time in the game", but what you really should be getting out of the image, is looking at it at a whole, and it gives you a feeling, and then you say "well, how can I somehow translate that feeling into the game, and give the player that feeling when they play the game?" I think that is the true power of concept art. We need something that says something new. Well not real new - we know what the Thief world is like - dark and moody, with brooding shadows and atmospheric lights, and ominous sillhouettes. But see how the concept art took that "theme" and gave it its own character? It's not easy but that's what I think we should aim for. A unique style of our own. I can see these sketches are just drafts, but they're a good start.

I'm not a music guy, so get your salt grains ready. I think these sound pretty good. Nice, quiet background ambience style tunes. The first one is nice, although the exact tone of the piano gave me a different 'feeling' than I would expect in the game. A little more light and airy that I would expect, but not bad altogether The second one is also nice. Defintely more ambiance than music. I was with it all the way till the end, where some of the sounds became a little too rythmic, and began to sound more music than ambiance. I think there is a place for musical ambience and environmental ambience, but I question whether they should be mixed together in the same track. Triggered changes could work with this, of course... music changes are great when done correctly! The third one was probably my favorite, particularly the beginning. Great, dark, brooding musical ambiance. My one complaint is the drastic change between the first half and the second half. This is two different themes smashed into one song, I think, and maybe they should be separated. The first half should continue into a new movement, but it should definately carry over the themes. Also, I noticed quite clearly the chimes used in the first two, sounding like distant clock bells. Nice sound on these. However, in ambiance, I think you may want to avoid features such as these. On a five to ten minute loop, the reoccuring bells could seem strange to a player who recognizes a midnight clock chime occurring every 5 minutes. The chimes would work fantastically as an intro segment that isn't looped, or a triggered musical bit though. Note that this restriction doesn't apply to all features; bangs sudden dischordant sounds, etc. can fit in with the environment and not call attention to themselves. Anyway, just my opinion, as a non-sound designer

Hello. To answer your question reagarding equipment: I'm using a PC, with a Terratec Aureon 7.1 Universe sound card. Cubase SX + VST instruments for music and yes, I also use Goldwave. You can probably upload the files to the Dark Mod FTP server, there is a thread about it where the passwords etc are. I should probably upload the SFX I've done for the Thief2D project there as well. And regarding your samples, some of it sounds good, though I really can't tell since I'm sitting with some really crappy speakers right now.

I also like the masked face look. Makes sense from a need-to-stay-hidden standpoint. I think it can be pulled off as long as we can avoid him looking like a ninja in the face. I may be wrong, but I think it might be a combination of a few things: (1) 'percent of coverage,' (2) 'angle at which the cloth is worn' and (3) 'tightness on the face' that gives ninjas the ninja look that many of us are accustomed to seeing. However, it might be worth researching classic/medieval thief attire, if such a thing exists. Perhaps dark makeup was used instead, or something? Either way, if we need to lock something down now, I'd be cool with using the masked face. I didn't like T:DS in that they showed Garrett's face in the light a lot. I think we should try to keep a certain 'mystique' of our character's appearance. Whether that be done by his face always being in the shadows in cutscenes/art, or a good portion of his face being covered by cloth, or a combination thereof -- I'd be a happy DarkMod camper

I'm like "Why wasnt the mask in the original game??" That's how much I support it. Look at what Ninja wear. Only just the eyes are visible. Cause white skin really glows in the dark. I've always wondered why Garrett never bothered with a face mask. And then of course, it's easier to implement... When something has this many good reasons, it's a sign.

Obviously I've been interested in this mod from the start but since I'm involved in some other issues I've not made any comments. The screens you've show so far are very nice. I don't recognise anyone on the team from other mods or FMs except ModeTwo from TUT and NB. How experienced are you guys? And how are you finding it? My main query is - what will you do if we get the TDS editor? There will be a bit of a software conflict with people making FMs for TDS whilst you guys work on this. Given that you have stated that this will only be out next year at the earliest do you not think that many of your ideas will be overtaken? Don't get me wrong - I'm not trying to bring a negative vibe - I'm just being realistic. I don't have Doom3 and won't get it until XMas at the earliest (as that is probably when I'll get my new gfx card). I have a NB/TDS map/FM in the works. It's really a SP FM but I can adapt it to NB MP. If the TDS editor is released I will make it for that 1st. But now I have an MP version designed I want to take to NB eventually anyway. And if there is no TDS editor then I'd love to make it for The Dark Mod as that is the only way the real atmosphere and plot will come out. Can someone explain the SDK/editor score with Doom3? What comes with it and what can you DL? And what are it's limitiation, what is it's scope?

believe me - it also looks like this in reality. take a look at the original photo: http://www.dark-project.com/BlackThief/furniture.jpg I think 1024 are not necessary, but if it's possible, why loose quality ?

Hey there Subjective Effect! Good to see you popping in. Even if there were to be a Thief DS level editor I don't think it should deter us from our goal. Thief deadly shadows is a fun game, but in many ways it lacks a certain thiefness. The early concept shots that we have on display here have captured the look of the previous games but with updated graphics. I think once things fall into place with the SDK the atmosphere will follow. It already seems to be there in the screen shots. Since I'm in early prep for a Thief 2 fan mission I'm primed to get some voice sets done for the Dark Mod. I'm thinking I'll do two versions as I'm recording to save some time and that way should a Deadly shadows editor ever arrive they can be used just as easily with that.

Well if you guys know what you are doing the Doom3 SDK release will allow for some serious alterations. I guess it'll come down to the limitations of the engine and, more importantly, the AI. If there is no TDS editor then the Dark Mod makes perfect sense. But if there IS a TDS editor then SP FMs will be made for it and Nightblade is already waaaaay ahead of you guys for the MP. It depends on the way it is done though. You have to realise that there would be massive crossover.

I think it's important that the texture artists try to work with a certain colour palette - it seems they already have the warm fire feel for the indoors lit with torches. Now out doors should be decided on soon, like strong blues and purples or greens maybe (and yellows, for the lights), or something, like the Thief 3 concept artwork. All good artists know that less is more. By that I mean, if the scene is filled with all sorts of colours, it loses its identity, but if there is a specific theme going on, it shows and it really has its own character. People were saying "This is what Thief 3 SHOULD have looked like!" about Renzatic's screen shots, and I beleive the colour palette is why. We (well, the artists) should strive for a unique, and unified feel for this Thief world. You can see good examples of this in a lot of 2D games. I think 3D games are only just catching up there, as the tools let artists express themselves more easily - a lot of older 3D game all sort of look alike, but now, with some of the nicer looking games, you can take a screen shot of it, and it is so easy to tell straight away that it is from that game, and not another game of that type. I think a good example is Need For Speed Underground. All the neon colours glowing in the dark, and the motion blurring. It's not the most realistic racing game out there (check out some of those new rally games), but it is certainly one of the prettiest, and best looking racing games out there. (If I have people disagree with me about NFSU, then maybe I chose a bad example, but I hope my point gets across all the same)

but being a slave is sooooo much easier....right.... ahhhhhhh...............nevermind.....I go back to my dark corner and hide

The other way around. Not a gem with a compass included (like in the picture above) but a compass with the gem included. I think in T3 it is like that. The only thing I didn't like in T3 about this was, that the compass/lightgem was to dark. In T1/T2 you always could see it clearly while in T3 it was not so visible.

Did someone mention SFX? Well, you know you can count me in. In fact, why don't we (Fingernail, you know what I'm talking about) cross develop all our SFX for both The Dark Mod and Thief2D? Since I guess they're both going to need the same sounds.

I am in agreement on the short sword issue. I think a big part of this project is not just making this a T3 clone, it is also to recapture the essence of the original games that was lost so willingly in T3. The dagger was not within the Thief continuity...regardless of the devs intentions. It may be best to include both options as I hear Garrett was to have gotten a dagger in Thief 2 Gold. Since Looking glass closed down before it could be made we never got to see it. So, yes....a dagger DOES have its place, but so must a sword! The Dark Mod can be what Thief 3 should have been.

wow - the ceiling looks great now ! I think you should go ahead and post it on the Dark Mod thread...

to be honest I don't like this proposal. It just doesn't look like a lightgem anymore. I thought, that we wanna give the taffers the real thief-feeling back, that they sometimes missed in thief 3. I added NewHorizon's lightgem into Renzatic's test-screen - I think THAT looks like Thief, doesn't it ? http://www.dark-project.com/BlackThief/light-gem-test.jpg

If take a look at the 'about' section of the website, you'll find a link to a letter from Electronic Arts to the webmaster that says '...we do ask that you drop the name and any affiliation the mod has with System Shock or System Shock 2.' Therefore it is also likely that the Dark Mod will not be allowed to have any 'copies' of names or objects from Thief in order to avoid copyright infringement. The team has changed there mod from 'System Shock 2: Rebooted' to 'Sapphire Scar' and ceased any affiliation from System Shock 2, however, it is obvious that the mod is based on System Shock 2 only completely unaffiliated, which is perfectly legal.

Updated the drawing with a noble and a balcony. All's left is to draw the thief in there somewhere. I am thinking, behind the noble with a raised dagger/sword glittering in the dark. Springheel, can ya give me a hand with a small thief sketch for this?

The first ever completely custom (well almost, the tiny bit of brick is D3) Dark Mod Thief-style room!

I consider this a small occasion since his woodpanel texture is the first normalmap I've done by hand. It's a great texture overall, but I had to do a few tweaks here and there to get it to work properly ingame...like change the paneling a bit towards the bottom cuz they bent a little towards the right and whatnot. Finishing it up helped me learn alot about Photoshop and MS Paint in the process, so it's all good. I still have a bit to go before it's completed, but this is the 80% complete texture, and the first one of Blackthief's textures I've done properly. Check it out HERE, mangs! P.S: It's dark in the renderer cuz I wanted to show how the light would catch it. I'm particularly proud of this one.

Indeed. If someone know about a nice-looking, dark and free ipb skin, speak up!

Looking good! Now we just need some dark Thiefness.