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You got it Spar, please read the executive summary I posted. I am dynamically stretching the rope mesh. I'm not cutting anything. I know they stretch the mesh in T2 because the joints seem closer together the shorter it is. For a rope with a maximum length, this will do just fine. We only have to give it enough joints to look right at the maximum length.

Yeah. I can imagine that the two raving fans of your playstyle will be pretty dissappointed. You know I'm quite selfish. I want as many people, as possible can, enjoy the game in order to get many FM missions back for freem without sacrificing gameplay to the XBox crowd (like T3 did). As there is no body feedback in a game, the player has to get some info on his state. Not everybody is directly connected into his machine with a brain interface. Who said it's impossible? You can play it without it, no problem. What you don't seem to get is, what OPTIONAL means. Nodboy is forcing a lightgem on you, so I don't really know why you bring this up again and again. Weapons are not really needed on the HUD. Doing distinctive models the player can see what he has equipped just by glancing at the screen. Yeah. I know why you are annoyed about this. Because we couldn't make our minds up and now we have 351 icons simoultanously on the screen. I didn't tell you this earlier because I was afraid you wouldn't approve, but after carefully thinking it through I came to the conclusion that we can't do without them. Yeah. That's why we provide the default version. That's what choice is about. And as long as YOU are not forced to use this version, I don't see a problem. It's not as if you need to stick to it. I don't want your playstyle and you don't want mine. You should be able to respect that because it will not interfere anway.

Actually, I think Tyrot's got the finished/colorized fountain, according to his post over here: http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showt...indpost&p=13323 However, there are two fountains in that thread. I think (though, don't know) that Tyrot was only going to do the colorized one. I didn't get a chance to finish this one, but maybe there's enough here to work from. The only part of this fountain I didn't finish was the base. Whereas the other one was completely made of stone, I envision this one here having an aged metallic top of some sort (brass? copper?), maybe with some gold accents incorporated throughout the remainder of the fountain? Scratch that, how about the whole fountain being ivory marble with gold accents?:

Nah, I was just a fan of the old "Nightmare on Elmstreet" movies when I was a kid and I always wanted to have the glove. I tride to make one...rather unsuccessfully, when I was around 10. I decided to order it from a gentleman in Vancouver BC here in Canada. He's been perfecting his craft for around 15 years and three years ago decided to start selling screen accurate collector gloves. The glove was different in each movie, but I always loved the one from the first film and that's the one you see in my photos. The guy who makes them had a rather rough year personally and I actually waited 13 months to receive this glove. In the end, it was well worth it.

Hey, wow! That T1/T2 effect sounds pretty cool! See this thread for more info: http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=938. Maybe we should be doing the machine types of sounds in stereo rather than mono, to achieve this effect? What do you think we should do, Pak? Here are the above files re-done in this sweet T1/T2 style. Compare them with the original mono files posted above: machine_hum_4-swirltest.ogg machine_hum_3-swirltest.ogg machine_hum_2-swirltest.ogg machine_hum_1-swirltest.ogg Also, Pak, I've made that 'wet finger around a wine glass' sound less pronounced here in this "humamb" file than in my original one, per your request. In doing this, I noticed there was a slight sparkle sound hidden in this file. I liked it, so I brought it out more for us to hear (humamb_1_sparkle.ogg). I could imagine the sparkly one used in a crystal cavern or something. humamb_1.ogg humamb_1_sparkle.ogg And Pak, I've removed the "hiss" from the Harp sounds, per your request. Also added a new one (harp_loud_2.ogg). harp_soft_1.ogg harp_loud_1.ogg harp_loud_2.ogg Additionally, I've created a new Ocean Shore sound. I made this sound as though it's off in the distance rather than really close: ocean_shore_1.ogg Comments are welcome.

Thanks Saxmeister! I'll try this out. PS: FINALLY! Something Sparhawk is not good at or doesn't understand! PPS: Just created some sample files using this cool effect. See the following thread: http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showt...indpost&p=14256

Just throw in however many joints you think looks right. The model will stretch and shrink in-game, and we can decide how many joints we need for the maximum length to look right. For now, anything will do. Make it 5 or something. Here, please have a read of this http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=1052&hl= It describes what the rope will be, in detail.

For now I'm going to spawn the hanging light for the rope, but its going to get in the way, with the huge light fixture at the bottom. It would be really good to have a working rope mesh to work with. We have a lot of aesthetic models, but nothing functional. No weapons or anything. Does anyone else think that the modelling really has to start to focus on the things us programmers are going to have to test with? Modelers will need to go here http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showt...indpost&p=14120 to see my post on how to find the good tutorials, and learn how to name joints ready for rigging in the game to rag-doll physics, which is what I need for the rope arrow. Well the direct link to the tutorials is here http://www.doom3world.org/phpbb2/viewtopic...3017&highlight= Just remember to follow my tip (in that post I linked to) about scrolling down PAST the video tutorials till you get to the text tutorials. Then scroll down to the modelling section, it has the info you guys should need. (If you see "modelling the plasma tick" then you're in the right section) (Also there is how to get animated models in the game, which you guys will need to know to make the weapons) Well the most pertinent link I could find quickly is this http://www.planetdoom.com/leveled/videotut...ain/index.shtml Which actually has tutorials on animating and rigging. However, they're all video tutes. They are all about 20mb, but you should only need the one that has rigging in it (down the bottom). I'm sure if you search, you'll find some text based tutorials. I found built in stuff for a ROPE in Doom 3 - yes a rope, that has physics applied to it and everything - however you can't climb it, it's just another form of rag doll. What it does mean is that probably the hardest part of the "visual" part of the rope has been done already, but the game is missing a rope mesh. Looks like they half implemented it and didn't make the mesh. So all you guys really need to do is model a rope mesh with the appropriate number of joints, and name them correctly. But I'm going to tell you guys how to look into the parts that links your model to the physics in game. At the very least, you can see where your joint names need to match up with what's listed in the .af (articulated figure) files. Either you'll have to make your own .af files, or at least give us programmers a list of joint names in your model. So here's how to get your hands dirty by looking at .def files. There's no programming in there, its just a bunch of file name associations and settings for individual objects. It's where meshes and animations are linked to the in-game objects. In pak000.pk4, there is a folder called "def". That is where all the def files are. The one with the rope in it is called "env.def". Open it and search for rope. Here you can see it is pointing to mesh files at models/md5/environments/ropemesh.md5mesh and models/md5/environments/ropeanim.md5anim But if you go to the "models" folder (in one of the other pak files, I can't remember which one), you'll see that neither of those files exist. You'll see a line that says "articulatedFigure" "env_rope.af" To get to the env_rope.af file, no need to delve through pak files - in the Doom 3 editor, type "editAFs" in the console tab. It brings up a window where you edit "articulated figure" properties. Choose "env_rope". Now you can see a bunch of settings, but really, I think I will take care of the details there. But you guys should know about it because I THINK that's where you start telling the game what you named your joints when you were modelling. That's pretty much all I can tell you for now. The rest should be found by searching www.doom3world.org or the rest of the web. The link I put up there is still a good place to start.

TYROT has a little too much on his plate right now, so he's asked that I assign the lightgem to someone else. Here's what we need: A lightgem model based on the first design on the page: http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=703&hl= The design should stay fairly close to this, although there is room for modification. Specifically, the gap between the outer ring and the lightgem isn't necessary. Adding certain design elements from either oDDity's or Atti's model would be fine. The gem and the compass should be modeled separately, even though they should look like one model when on screen. The gem will have 16 different textures (from light to dark). The metal parts should be textured in a dark and rough fashion, like oDDity's version on the page above. Only one spike (the North one) should remain smooth and shiny. The gem itself should be very similar to Oofnish's version, as everyone quite liked this look. Any takers? Now that Spar has the lightgem more or less working, it would be great to have the actual model in-game.

Yes. You can throw punches from different sides and do a counter-attack, which usually leads to death of your enemy I just recently (not a week ago) played the game through. Here're some of my thoughts: What I didn't like about it was the feeling of me running in a tube. The levels were too narrow and pretty straight forward. You never really got any choices to make, saying which road to go. And in a sneaking game that's pretty much the worst thing you can do IMO. I did like the whole Riddick character. Anti-heros are always my thing. And yes, Vin Deasel do rock your socks, and so does the other voice actors. Also liked the 'preying mode'. Kinda succesfull. The HUD is pretty much perfect: when you're just running along without no combat or anything, there's nothing disturping you on the screen. Very well done. (Take a hint Dark Mod team. Oh, and when you were hanging on a rail and moving sides-to-sides the view throwed you in the 3rd person mode. Otherwise it's always 1st person. This system could allow you guys to make the Dark Mod game environment even more usefull, like I've stated in my previous topic -> http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=679 This way it wouldn't look bad to make the thief more acrobatic. The drawback is of course can the thief fans take it. Overall it was worth the 36 euros I payed for it, but it could have been A LOT better.

What is The Dark Mod? We are primarily a group of Thief fans, disappointed there was going to be no editor for Thief: Deadly Shadows. Seeing Doom 3, we all thought it would be an excellent engine to create a Thief Style experience. To be a part of the team, you need to have some familiarity with the Thief games. Although a Thief 3 editor is a possibility now we will continue our work as we feel the D3 engine gives us even more freedom to create a Thief Style. What do I do to join? We're a fan project, so you won't recieve any sort of money for work you do on this project. We do this for love of the game, and to add to our own portfolios. Dedication and a willingness to learn is very important. You must also be able to accept constructive criticism from team members. To apply, first sign up as a member of our forum and then send an email to: recruiting@thedarkmod.com Please include some samples of your work in the email and also a brief description of the skills you are willing to lend to The Dark Mod. Please ensure the work you include is representative of your capabilities. After I have reviewed your application, I will get back to you as quickly as possible. We are currently interested in the following skills: Model Skinners - We have many objects that need to be textured. Animation - We have a lot of character models that need to be animated Coding - AI or Physics Skills a huge plus. Mapping - Familiarity with Doom 3 level editor and Thief series history. Modeling - Characters, Objects Sound - Ambience, sound effects. **Please Note** Vocal Sets are being handled in house. No vocal set submissions please. - New Horizon

It all stirs my blood a bit overmuch, so pardon me in advance if I get heated without due reason. I despise the entire notion that such a thing (especially as loose as it is in this case) could even be conceived to be enforceable. The only legit, somewhat tangible copyright is the naming of a stealth video game "Thief", and we're not doing that. It's not Thief 4. It's not Thief: Revisited. It's The Dark Mod. It is stated clearly to be influenced by Thief, so there is no ignorance plea in that area. And of course, they (meaning the Thief copyright holders) don't own the word thief, and they don't own the word dark. They didn't invent wacko religious zealots (if only), they didn't invent hammer weilding - especially by religious folk so as not to draw blood with a blade (D&D clerics, anyone?), or city guards, or houses to break into, or stealth. If they DID invent something like mantling (which they didn't, hello to Lara, as just one modern example), something like that is no more theirs than the "forward key" belongs to whoever used it first. Each time someone makes a new shooter, they don't need to ask for id's blessing. Making this Thief-style conversion (because let's face it, that categorization is the most appropriate) of another game (which is much more loosely binding than a full game-for-production where actual story and profit! are an issue) doesn't require asking EIDOS' permission any more than it requires asking for permission from they who made Metal Gear Solid (...before Thief) or Splinter Cell. Our City is not Thief's City. Our character is not Garrett. Our order is not the Hammerites. If they wanted to claim ownership to the Pagans, they'd have hundreds of millions of people to argue with for that right, first. Heck - The Dark Mod isn't even focused on a campaign - it's a tool kit first and foremost. As for the fans making missions which call things Hammerites, or Garrett, or Trickster... well, there's not much we can do about that. And I frankly don't care to. In fact, I can't wait to see Garrett and ol' Constantine find their way into TDM fan missions. Ahem, with that said - I doubt they even care. TDM is not copyright infringement, and it's not a threat to the (now questionable) future of Thief. If a SDK for T3 comes out, the fans will still use it. If a new Thief game comes out, the fans will still buy it.

So revised No. 1... to modern...? i would say more simple as the windows in T1/T2, where every window in every simple house looked like a cathedral opening... I´m outing me now as a fan from the look of TDS... more simple but more realistic... IMO... (still running... ) You know Warren Spector had also an architect on board... ?

now that's why we dont give access to our forums for any greenpeace activists... btw do i underand correctly that you throw these things together on one day?

It's not that all don't like your site. Personally I think it look sgood but it needs still some work. That is nothing personall or means that you are not good engough, but you must consider that we have about 15 people on the team and all have a different view. So we should try to create something that most can live with. When I worked with Tyrot on the trailer I also told him things he should change and he became very grumpy at me after some time because I always found something that should be done better. So this is not something special to you, this is the way the mod works. We don't want something where people say"Darkmod? Yes, that's this mod from Doom3 doing a thief thing, isn't it?" We want people to say "WOW! You have to check this out, this is how Thief should have been and if you are a Thief fan you can not miss it!."

im a thief fan and I just found out about the dark mod from the doom mods site, great job with the mod but looking at other doom mods sites, this one looks rather poor. i don't know if i have the right to say this but your site needs an improvement, and i realy like what degineth did. just my opinion, a new look is always welkome, plus you have nothing to lose. i will be wathing your progress , btw do you have a realese date?

You know you're playing too much Thief when... ..you start making posts on internet forums entitled 'You know you're playing too much Thief when...'

As DROMEDERS are we not given a certain license known as an understood usage license or something like that. do we not have the right given to us by Looking Glass Studios, Inc.to create fan missions so long we understand that we can never sell our ideas. or sell our FMs and that the owners of THIEF 1 and have the right to take and use any of our ideas You may use this software to create or modify levels for use with the game Thief 2: The Metal Age (henceforth referred to as "levels") subject to these restrictions: Any levels you create can only work with the full, legal version of Thief 2: The Metal Age. By allowing us to create modifiy and distribute levels based on THIEF 2 are we not also allowed to make improvements to the characters RESKIN and scripts. So we can with scripts modify the engine functionality WHY NOT USE ANOTHER ENGINE? THEY GAVE US LICENSE TO USE ALL THE CHARACTERS IN THIEF 2 WHEN THEY GAVE US DROMED SO LONG AS WE DO NOT USE NEW THIEF IDEAS LIKE THOSE IN THEIF 3 we stick to stuff we made up or that was in THIEF 2 already Your mod is only like creating really cool stuff to go in THIEF 2 Missions. The word THIEF, MECHANIST, HAMERITE BUILDER TRIXTER AND ALL THE IDEAS PRESENTED IN THIEF ARE LICENSED TO YOU THREW YOUR DROMED ENDUSER LICENSE AGREEMENT those ideas and themes are covered because they give you the right to modify any levels which includes any of the thief themes ideas or peoples. I am no lawyer but it seems to me that if you wanted to use the actual names and places all you have to do is make the new engine verify THIEF2 GAME DISK or something at least once during installation. i really love thief i really love your work THANKS On second thought maybe you should stay generic and safe. I'll do the changing all on my own

I never used a forum before so please forgive my lack of edict ... is this the correct place... Can the dromed darkloader and other such tools be integrated into a DARK MOD STARTSMART that direct you to either one tool or another. Not having to hunt for one tool to view 3d models and one to pack you missions would be great. Having the FM mission loader, game dromed(like) reskining tools, and all other cool Tools all integrated into a single package so you can: build levels play others levels, and do all that funky FM making you and I love to do. Or are the tools all going to be loose separate little programs. could there be at least a shell that runs several plugin programs. with help integrated some

Don't forget the huge number of fan fictions, which are standalone works, based on the Thief series, containing all the trademarks of such. Or the artwork, most of which is a comlete ripoff of their designs (well, it is fan artwork). Eidos never complained about that.

There were some lights and security systems in T2 that you could track back (via wires along the walls) to a light switch or shut off circuit switch. I feel having wires along some walls were necessary in T2, and will be for DarkMod -- for certain situations and missions. It was fun trying to find the source of certain things. Not sure if this really applies to what's being worked on here, but thought I'd mention.

I thought we had an agreement that we keep silent on public forums about the new abillities of Garretts special moves and martial arts capabillities.

Yeah, the requests were the main reason why I started this thread. Maybe we should let the others know about it.... post a link in the other forums, maybe?

Ah! Thought you might be a fan of that game.

While we will indeed come up with a backstory for a campaign, the Dark Mod is primarily an editor. It will be up the FM authors to come up with backstories for their missions and campaigns. We can't wait to see what they will come up with!