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LOL. But what about the arrow's response to the birdcall be a result of magic? That way it's not totally necessary to explain. I don't think the arrow should light up from 100 ft away -- that'd act too much like T3's loot glint ... Rather, if you get into the general vicinity of where you think the arrow is (within 10 feet?) and blow the whistle, it will react. It's not meant to make finding the noisemaker totally easy Also not meant to be totally pointless. Just a help for when it falls into a dark, dark corner. Bah, I'm cool without it. Was just responding to your thoughts of it being hard to find, even though you found the search fun.

It's hard to make skeletons look good moving around, but we should definitely use them for 'decoration'. I don't see any reason to model our own though, when we can just use the D3 ones.

Well, we would have to see this first, but that's no real problem for now. Only thing we could need a hand in texturing, mapping (probably) and coding (has to be seen though). But nobody will force you to anything. IMO that is the only reason why Thief still has such a strong community after such a long time. LOL. You are right. Just wanted to get an overview of your style and what you did so far. The problem with ordering a story is, that we have to agree on something first. As you can imagine that caused quite a stir, because we had some ideas and some even presented a story, but it is very hard to come up with everybod can agreee upon. I guess I will make you a contributor and then we can discuss this in more detail. I don't want to talk to much about storie ideas on the public board, as this is one area where I wouldn't want to spoil anything. No problem with discussing algorithms or models, but certain things should be held back to have at least som surprises for our fans. I will wait on soime feedback from some other members. So far they were positive but it was to short a time to get a good sample. I guess in the evening I can give you a more definite answer on that. Your timezone would be a help, so we can better plan. Which area of physics? Can you also do some physics coding? That might be helpfull. It is not strictly required, just asking. We have other contacts who also have experience in D3 physics already, but of course having at least one teammeber would be preferable. I can imagine that. If I have the feeling that an algorithm is not good enough I rather rip it apart and write it new, than releasing it knowing it is not as good as it could be. That's good to hear. We have a very good team so far, and the standard is also very high. I certainly prefer to work on a professional team than with a bunch of 3771 hax0r script kiddies. Makes live much more easier.

Take it from me; it NEVER stopped moving where it landed. It skids and slides and bounces everywhere, till it looses all its momentum. I always find it buried in some dark corner somewhere aways from where I aimed it. And the darn thing is so thin, and so hard to see, it's practically invisible in the dark. I'm not complainging though - Makes for fun trying to retreive it, ahd probably balances out their powerfulness a bit. I can't collect it again in a pinch, cause it takes so much time. So I can't use the same one to rappidly and constantly keep luring the guards away.

I can do mapping (not sure of how good it is though, as I always tried it for Thievery but always ended up with an extremely slow running map [cos I made all the things like fences out of brushes not masked singular brushes] so I always dumped them and did'nt bother much. UnrealED really knows how to anger me as it loves to add irrepairable BSP holes - AARGH!!!) so therefore I don't know of the quality. I did try D3 mapping in the original editor (not using the sdk) when it came out. Had a good try at mapping but then my windows2000 caught the "skynet" virus and I had to re-install. After that I could'nt play D3 anymore (unless I'd re-install) so my mapping went down the drain there. Though I will install D3 and give it another shot even with this new sdk. BTW, gimme a couple of hours to find which files I have changed from the original Thievery so that you guys can have a look at my whole mod (if you bother going through it ). Just a qiuck overview: *added better splashy water-effects for everything *added GUI lockpicking (gets super-hard once your above lock difficulty 7, though it's not finished yet, gotta do more combinations for the 8 pin locks) which is heard by AI. *added wall-climbing (a bit annoying though, all it does is that as a thief when you jump and press jump again in mid-air it puts you into spider physics, there are controls to control it [i will write them in the readme with it]) *changed the loot so that when stolen, it spawns a TSTStolenLoot thing (which the AI notice and also [if you turn it on] you can see it as a redish circle) *added bleeding (inspired by Thief's "Trail of Blood") which happens when health drops below 50% (at below 20% your movement is hindered) which can be stopped by taking healing of any sort. *added silhouette mode ([mentioned earlier]always on, could switch it off in script though) which changes the player's texture in black shadow to total black (had a glowing problem) and in light to a normal texture (also made it use the Unreal Male1 model as the thievery model always was spread out [bad for silhouette]). However, if you move too fast in shadows you will light up like a light bulb (inspired by the fan made "Ultimate Difficulty mod" for thief) and the player glows a bit (so that any human player may see him ). *Changed a lot of textures (like the health drops, lightgem, etc). *and more... I could not however even touch the ThieveryMod.u package (think it was made in C++ or other) and that hindered the editing extremely as I always had to find a way around. So there you go, most of the changes I made to Thievery. I'll provide the files, maps, textures, etc (everything that is needed for the mod). Though it will take a few hours to sort it out (very untidy ) and then I'll chuck it up on yahoo. Oh yes, one more thing. I did do a small amount of Doom 3 lighting (in that map I tried mentioned earlier), but I'll need to learn more about it (downloading the sdk for a start). So yeah. I'll post here when I've finished sorting the files of my mod and have them chucked up on yahoo. 1 final thing: Please remember that my mod was made solely for LAN play and that it has it's fair share of problems (the climbing, for some stupid reason, does'nt work with more then one thief in the map - gotta fix it) and that some of it was made to prevent the dumb thing in Thievery where you could hide in a slanted wall or in the tiniest strip of shadow from human players (could'nt fix it for AI ) and that the mod was made mainly for ghosting (as I do that all the time - hence why I used the Ultimate difficulty mod in Thief) That covers all of it then. If you read up to here then you are very patient and I thank you . PS: If you wanna use any of the stuff I added into Thievery (textures, sounds, ideas, etc) then please, go right ahead. --Dram

ok.. you know i dont really know how hard to do World building in doom3 maybe i am too much used to the uber-easy Mw modding, where it wasnt much trouble to do such things..

dear Domarius When i first watched THIEF the Dark Project intro one thing exploded in my eyes..immediately ..THE COMBINATION of different forms.. There are 3d renderings, 2d concept art, 2d animation and ACTUAL video footage. And all of them combined together almost invisible technic... That s why it was my favorite one..of ALL I wrote a long description how i made the teaser it s here.. http://www.doom3world.org/phpbb2/viewtopic...t=7994&start=20 I hope link is good.. Any further question will be answered gladly Ah yes...Those effects can be done both 2d and 3d..They are combining all art forms in perfect unity...So one frame is 3d and the other one 2d with 3d art on it.. It s hard to write you know...But after effects+photoshop+3d software ...is your answer. They used 3d max so it was 3d max... Let say victoria s morph is a lovely unity of 3d + 2d additional effects.. That s the beauty of thief.. I mean you know how much thief FAN loved the game just for those Cutscenes...first BEST

Yes but "a lot of you" don't use the noise arrow at all, so I don't think that's very fair, as I said before. You should follow that noise arrow link I posted, and from there, look at the link to the actual discussion, where I gave reasons on why they HAVE to be re-usable. I'm not in any way opposed to its actual sticking into walls or not at the moment, just the "a lot of you think it shouldn't be re-usable" statement. If some of you have experimented, and think they're too powerful if they're re-usable, then I'm willing to listen. A comprimise could easily be made where the noise arrow only works once or twice on each guard, but you can keep re-using the same one on other guards. I liked the sticking into walls idea at first, because it means it doesn't have to be different than the other arrows, but when it hits a hard surface, it's going to have to either; die (which I won't like at all), or bounce, which means I'll have to program it differently anyway. But at least, if it stuck into something, it'd be easier to find, which is a problem I have with them at the moment in T2.

Well, that is a hard lesson we learned also on the mod. Don't show WIP to early, becuase it will earn you potentially unneccessary critique and amount of arguing will get this out of the heads. Actually that was one lesson I learned in my rethoric class. You can't go back. If you made an error in your introduction, no amount of apologizing or explaining of the facts will change that. You can never say "Forget about this I start over again." because your audience can not forget on demand. The only thing you can do in such a situtation is to get on with your presentation and hope that your audience will be convinced by what you show them. Prsonall I had no problem with your tree, because I was aware of the fact that it is WIP and was done rather fast because we asked you for it.

I understand this, but the point ive been trying to get across is that this is not the final tree!!!!. Of course it looks ugly, it was just created so i could show springheel the amount of branches i decided to go with. It is as far from what the final product will be as you can get. The 30 minute tree was the first rough attempt that i removed and put the newer pictures in its place (current tree took ~5minutes, as you will understand having used Zspheres yourself i assume). So please try to understand this was intended as a VERY rough guide of the general shape, nothing more. So please no more comments about the tree, at least until ive actually started it, then criticism is more than welcome . About Oddity's comment's, like i said i honestly am not at all offended, i just cannot understand why someone would start to critique someone elses work before its even started. That just doesnt help in any way at all. On the modeling program's, you might well be right, but we'll just have to see how i get on. But i hope you realise all im using Zbrush for is the high poly geometry for the normal maps, so tbh i dont see why it matters what program i make it in. If there is a difference that i'm unaware of then please let me know. But anyway, theres certainly no hard feelings on my part toward anyone here.

dear Natureboy im another modeller in the team..I think i can make some comments too..And remember oDDity made almost same comments on me while im modelling a character.. So listen this. Tree is not good...This is not a tree..I mean It s like beveling multiple polygons at once...In lightwave it takes 2 minutes (even less)..30 minutes is so much for that one...BUT keep on reading...because your zombie is GOOD I dont wanna defend anyone but i wanna make a comment on oDDity's comment. I know oDDity i know his "thirst for quality" and he has right to comment like this. I had his comments as im modelling and i was almost having a heart attack..But you know what...I m so much better now...Im getting even better with my characters..His one harsh critic made me realize that i have to go back to anatomy classes. Im building a fresh character modelling skills..ANd of course it was harsh from him, but he helped me alot..THAT is HONEST part...Do not take it as a personal, but as a professional critic. And if it makes you turn red...That s a good sign..Cuz you gonna learn more and more..(I experienced this and it really helped me) but YOUR zombie is really cool..I mean if you ask me ZBRUSH is a very different modelling tool it may confuse you time to time..In polygonal modelling software s thing are really hard, flows are important and making a single polygon is a very serious decision.. In ZBRUSH (an awesome program) everything is different. Polygons are reaching millions in seconds and this is FATAL in game design. ALthough im modeller for 7 years im still trying to learn optimising my hi-poly objects ...So do not get me wrong... It s not a wrong program but it s suitable for movie quality modellings..such as LOTR.. You said you use Softimage ..That s nice. If you say that you can model that ZOmbie in Softimage with polygons and import it into Doomengine with using normal maps.... it would be brilliant..Trust me the modelling is fun part but importing, making UVs tweaking, polygon reducing... This is the problem part..(otherwise i would have completed all models in one month) Conversions after conversions..... just because of different programs have different strenghts..And game designers are using Best Software combo for modelling and animation..for their games.. In this case for Doom3 combo is Lightwave (max) (modelling) + Maya (max) (animation) Trust me if you go with ZBRUSH+Softimage combo you will get crazy with your first model. So expand your horizon, re-test your modelling skills with traditional modelling softwares...and give your decision (of course give a try to Lightwave!) BEST

So true. That is why I feel that a per-area method is better (a way of giving an area a "noisyness" value). No extra propagation to do, just lower the "loudness" of the player sounds. I'm glad you mentioned something about having it dynamic, such as all the party guests leaving. It shouldn't be hard to modify the "noisyness" value of the area in real time.

dear Pakmannen First welcome back..!!! Second....if you need anything spesific just let me know...(for music) third...I guess i mentioned before i have good sound effect cds.(one problem they are registered ones..but we can use at least for our own campaign levels i guess.i have to ask this from the production company) If you need hard to get sound effects (although we have a quite a sound team) just let me know... BeST

Come again? "A labour of love" (http://www.labouroflove.org/) seems to be about parenting. Would that mean you made a babie and named it REALGTA3? Just checking because dude, that kid is going to have a hard time when he (she?) starts school. Also, how do you make a babie slow on your own? A surrogate mother? How did that work out for you?

The Bell Banging Love the bangings, and the violins. The intro bells are, as Darkness said, a little out of place. My suggestions would be to either lower the volume, or remove them. (Or make them blend in more, somehow) Creepy piano Yes, very Thief 3 like. And in a good way! I only wish the piano pieces were a little more fleshed out in some places. Also, the background hum is a little distracting. It could be annoying to hear it repeated five times or so in a single level. (But since we don't have a level yet, it's kinda hard to know, I'm just guessing here!) Anyway, you can always do what I did on the underground theme. Make different versions and name them theme1a.ogg, theme1b.ogg etc. Musicbox I really like this one! Freeky stuff! But I think you have misunderstood the tasklist. This thing here is a theme, listed in the tasklist as "themes(5)". The item listed as "musicbox(2)" is the sounds for an actual musicbox (3d model in the gameworld) that the play can "use" so that it makes a sound (More like a sfx than an ambient now that I think about it.) This theme you created here could be used for that too I guess, if you remove the background hum. If you could make a version with a more "scratchy" sound (as if it was very old) that would be awsome! About your musicbox tune, as I said, great. I love it. I love it so much I think you should work more on it (if you're willing to). The first little melody is great. (Up until 0:45). More things like that please! I think that was all. Keep up the good work!

yeah it's hard to find floor plans on the internet, but not in old architecture books I have a couple of them here (they to belonged to my great-grandfather and are about 100 years old). I'll check them out and post some scans soon.

Mmm, very very nice. This definitely inspires and raises some questions. I am tempted to try and lay out that hallway right now... in fact I might do so. But I've already done a couple of concept/show scenes - neither uploaded yet, because neither are finished enough for me to want to do so (the first is only about 50% done, and the second, I haven't considered it finished because it needs more detail and objects, and at current, some of my models are black again, so I gave up on trying to fix it and was waiting a bit for that issue to be sorted out - maybe I'll have to do another whole clean checkout with the CVS (UGH)). As for a question - prefabs. I know it's been mentioned elsewhere already. And it's true that solid, set designs need to be laid out first or everything will look like a mish-mash (that happened in a few places in T3). A couple that jump out at me in this big picture here - archways and windows. For windows I'd imagine we'd need fancy versions that are open/openable, and exact duplicates that are solid/closed/butted up against a wall just for show. For archways - always a touchy thing to do in a map editor without a million brushes or sloppy CSG. Surely we'll have doorway arch models? Anyway this is great stuff. Really inspirational! If you design a full floorplan, I will be lining up to see it. Floor plans seem really hard to find on the internet, oddly enough? If anyone has a source, please post it.

Looks good. You should also do some wheels and such. You know what I mean? Big ones and small ones that can be connected to them. I guess three should be enough. One small enough to fit in the hand, one middle sized and on big one. Maybe you can also do broken ones. Shouldn't be to hard when you are at it.

Ok, this issue is put to bed. The following has been decided upon already: 1. There will be a player choice between * lightgem/compass combo (t3-non tilting) or * separate compass in inventory (t1/2-tilting) 2. A single keybind will toggle the lightgem/compass combo on and off. Just so we're clear, those issues are no longer up for discussion. We had already talked about having a key that toggled your healthbars on and off. I don't think it would be that hard to have an option in the mainmenu for 'HUD off'. That would mean it would default off, but if you wanted to turn parts on briefly (to see how hurt you are) you could.

oofnish's model We were voting for his design - I like what it oofnish's one LOOKS like. Doesn't matter how we implement it. We all voted that it should LOOK like that. Votes This poll should be split into the two seperate issues that they are. One poll for tilting, and one poll for combined. Combined gem and compass The gem and compass are GOING to be two seperate entities as far as programming (and hence, modelling) is concerned. It's for implementation reasons. So the vote should be about wether they APPEAR to be seperate entites or not. Just wanted to clear that up. Tilting T2 had tilting, and it was fine. There is a bit of tweaking there, making sure it's being seen from a high angle by default, so that you don't have to look downward to see the farthest arrow. My main reason was if we can not tilt it, we can pre-render it and make it look way better. I don't think there's any other real issue to debate about tilting. If the thing isn't going to be pre-rendered, it may as well tilt. It will require a bit more work, but not much. Options I'd much rather have tilting than having options for turning tilting on and off, and other stupid options. An option screen full of petty options is going to just look like we were all arguing over silly details and couldn't decide. I personally don't see the need for customising the experience of a game outside of control configs and player name and appearance. (modding is a seperate issue). Having an option to turn off lockpicking makes me feel like I'm back in the days of the console video games and I can set how many lives and continues I have. I have to excercise restraint instead of being gradually convinced that the game can be played the way the designers made it. Having an option to turn down HUD brightness is an interface issue in Thief because it can glare your vision and make it hard to see in dark areas. Having an option to turn off a compass that is taking up 5% of screen real-estate is very petty. Why don't we answer the bigger issue of people desiring a HUDless game (a totally reasonable desire, that other games have satisfied one way or another) and just make a HUD on/off toggle button or something, instead of going about it peicemeal? I wanna see my light gem. Click, there it is. Bleh, yucky compass. Okay I'm done. Click. All gone again.

I can verify the fact that making the high poly model is the quick, easy and fun part of the whole process. The rest of the process alternates between hard work, boredom and frustration. But hey, if TYROT wants to get all 30 or so models into the game, then great.

dear Atti The ones very thin legs the last picture i guess made with iron..actually these two are irongothic chairs..that s why i kept them very thin.. I know it will be hard to make low polys but i wanted to make them in normal LW way.. It s giving me freedom when im modelling...If i think low poly im having anger attacks...So for me it s better to remodel the object once i m ok with Hires I dont hesitate the make a low poly all over again... Instead of tweaking.. and I will fix the legs later on.. The thing is im preparing spesific textures for each of them... So it will take little time but dont worry it will be better looking...This is just a shape upload... BEST

All my words are gone..amazing.. i can imagine you cant wait to start making these lowpoly:) it will be damn hard i guess... oh and some constuctive critism:) i wouldnt sit on some of those..some look really fragile..

This page showcases all of our current models, both those that are ready to use, those that are complete but need skinning, and those that are in progress. http://www.mindplaces.com/darkmod/models/models.htm I'm happy to report that we have almost a dozen completed models, and over 30 models waiting to be skinned! Modelers, please look over this page and let me know if anything is in the wrong spot--I sometimes had a hard time telling if something had been skinned or not. Also, if there are any models shown here that are not already on the FTP site or CVS, please upload them (with the exception of models in progress). Any other ommissions, please let me know.

These are pretty basic sound bits. Not much layering going on. I wanted them to remain in a raw format for now; they can always be layered later. It's hard to 'unlayer' once you've layered Other sound guys can also layer these on their files, if desired. I'm having troubles recording loudly with my setup. Not sure why. Thus, HumAmb1 is pretty quiet. Here are some new files, in .OGG format. Note: If you're not on the sound team, you may need to instead listen to the identical .MP3 counterparts at the bottom of this post: MachineHum1 HumAmb1 BellAmb1 CutsceneAmb1.ogg Harp-Soft Harp-Loud If you can't hear the above, you probably don't have the right software. Try these MP3s instead: MachineHum1 - Loop it. Some sort of weird machine hum. Could also be layered with other ticks, drones and hums to make an interesting machine sound. HumAmb1 - Loop it. Background hum. I wish this was a bit louder; you may have to crank your speakers. Intro/End can be chopped off for a continuous hum. BellAmb1 - Loop it. CutsceneAmb1 - Might work well as some background ambience in a FM slideshow cutscene, as 'Garrett' talks. Harp-Soft - I loved plucking the strings of that harp in T2! I think we should try to have different music instruments, so when touched they produce a sound. Harp-Loud - A louder version of the above. I didn't like that it was so loud the first time you plucked the harp in T2. I think this louder version could be used for if the player repeatedly plucks the harp. Maybe have soft/loud versions of other instruments for the same reason. Let me know what feedback/suggestions you have.