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Macsen Application Thread.


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Hi Macsen, this is our private applicants forum. Only you and the team are able to see this. We like to keep the application discussions out of the public eye. :)

 

Oh, to any other applicants. Please do not post in any applicant threads but your own. :) This is for the team and the named applicant.

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Question is: Do you have a concrete concept for a story already? We currently have a writer who is also in application status, but he seems to have disappeared fro frustration. The problem is that a story is pretty emotional to most of the members, so you have to be able to take a lot of (partly pointless) "criticism" and ignore it (mostly).

Gerhard

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You can look through all our other countless threads about plot and setting (I'll organize em into a post for you) then form your own ideas from there. Mix our ideas with yours, match em up, or don't use our stuff at all...do whatever you like, just write us a cool story. ;)

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Question is: Do you have a concrete concept for a story already? We currently have a writer who is also in application status, but he seems to have disappeared fro frustration. The problem is that a story is pretty emotional to most of the members, so you have to be able to take a lot of (partly pointless) "criticism" and ignore it (mostly).

Criticism is good, and will make the story much better at the end of the day. A good story is the cornerstone of a game, especially a Thief game, so it's very important that we get it right. I'll look at what you have thought about so far, and probe you with further questions as to the direction you think the story ought to be going in.

 

It seems to me that there are two avenues that we could take this story down. The first is to do a traditional Thief story, set in the City as Garrett and featuring the Hammerites and Pagans prominently. The advantage of this would be that it'd be very recognisable as a Thief game, and the modellers/scripters/map makers would be creating the kind of characters and locations the Thief Community will want to use once the toolset is released. The problem with this kind of story is that it isn't as original, and that going too close to the world of Thief would perhaps raise copyright issues. This is probably something you've already discussed in some detail, and since many of the models and some locations will already be done I suppose some kind of general consensus as to the direction and feel of the campaign has already been reached.

 

I look forward to seeing what you've already done. I have some journalism work to do this afternoon and tomorrow (there's a war on, you know), so it'll be Friday before I'm able to begin crafting a proper story. But I'll think about it in the meantime. :ph34r:

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This is probably something you've already discussed in some detail, and since many of the models and some locations will already be done I suppose some kind of general consensus as to the direction and feel of the campaign has already been reached.

Hiring you as a writer IMO makes mostly sense if you can come up with a good story AND defend it. :) The problem is that we tried to come up with one ourselve and this didn't work out really well as many members tried to push their story forward and others didn't agree with it. But our members are not writers anyway, so I was not to happy with the currenty story proposals on a whole, while individual ideas were pretty good. So there is no clear direction yet. One reason is also, because we initially started this mod as a toolset for FM authors to create their own missions. Doing a campaign was more thrown in later because Eidos/ION (inofficially) announced that they are working on the editor and we thought that we should change direction a bit.

 

Personally I think that writing the story is just a creative process as the modelling, sound and all the other components. Therefore I don't want to push a particular story idea beyond a few general restrictions.

Gerhard

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Criticism is good

Constructive criticism is good. We're just plain evil.

 

It seems to me that there are two avenues that we could take this story down. The first is to do a traditional Thief story, set in the City as Garrett and featuring the Hammerites and Pagans prominently. The advantage of this would be that it'd be very recognisable as a Thief game, and the modellers/scripters/map makers would be creating the kind of characters and locations the Thief Community will want to use once the toolset is released. The problem with this kind of story is that it isn't as original, and that going too close to the world of Thief would perhaps raise copyright issues. This is probably something you've already discussed in some detail, and since many of the models and some locations will already be done I suppose some kind of general consensus as to the direction and feel of the campaign has already been reached.

 

We are doing an original story, that much is decided. Not using any Thief universe names (copyright reasons etc).

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We are doing an original story, that much is decided. Not using any Thief universe names (copyright reasons etc).

So you're using Thief characters and locations, but changing the names? Do the Chiselites worship the Constructor, or is it set in an entirely different universe? :ph34r:

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Crazy Idea #1:

 

Since you're planning on setting the game in a non-copyrighted parallel universe, I was wondering whether you've thought about giving Terry Pratchett a call and asking him if you could set the game in his Discworld, which is a very, very similar fantasy steampunk world. I've met Terry Pratchett before and he's a very nice man so I'm sure he'd hear you out. Apparently he plays Thief FM's as well, so he may have another special reason for granting you use of his little world. After all, there's a Thieves Guild in Ankh-Morpork, and an University of Wizards (mages), a Guild of Assassins, a Guild of Alchemists... ;)

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DiscWorld

That idea is certainly appealing, but I don't think that this would put the mod in the right direction. Personally I associate with Discworld always the fantastic comic style graphics that are on the paperback books, and putting our Thief inot this world should go in an entierly different visual direction.

 

Also, even if TP is a nice guy, that doesn't mean that he will give business away like this. :)

Gerhard

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Yes, it was a crazy idea. A million to one chance. ;)

 

The problem with the idea that I should form the plot without listening to any criticism or suggestions from the team is that it is very difficult for me to do so without looking at what you've done so far and working out what the team does best, since you will be the ones who ultimately bring this universe to life. For instance, if one of the level designers is brilliant at creating gothic cathedrals, it would make sense for me to centre part of the plot around a cathedral, rather than an angular factory. So I can't ignore the opinions of the team completely. Anyway, I'm supposed to be working now. :)

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The problem with the idea that I should form the plot without listening to any criticism or suggestions from the team is that it is very difficult for me to do so without looking at what you've done so far and working out what the team does best, since you will be the ones who ultimately bring this universe to life. For instance, if one of the level designers is brilliant at creating gothic cathedrals, it would make sense for me to centre part of the plot around a cathedral, rather than an angular factory. So I can't ignore the opinions of the team completely. Anyway, I'm supposed to be working now. :)

Oh you should listen to suggestions and constructive criticism. No harm can come from that. You just need to be able to ignore the usual flamewar stuff. And hold your ground. ;)

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I have created the plot.

 

But I need to know how many levels the level designers can manage between them; that's a decision the team is going to have to make. Once you figure that out I can tell you exactly what happens level-to-level. The levels will be quite diverse so there should be something to every level designer's taste.

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We are currently discussing story limitations. We should have done this earlier, but somehow we never got the idea to do this. Now that you are the second writer asking for guidlines, I thought it is a good idea to have some limits defined so we can easier agree on which direction the story should go.

 

I guess we can make a summary of this by tomorrow and this will probably help you to get a better idea about potential stories.

Gerhard

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We have discussed having no more than 6 levels.  Short and sweet.  ;)

Fantastic. :D

 

The minimum amount I would need to tell the story is 5, and I prefer it that way without any 'filler' levels (go get a few talismans to open that door, etc). The sixth level could be a training level, or an introductory level before the main meat of the plot kicks in proper, if we feel that we need one. :ph34r:

 

I'll write it up post haste. You'll have it tomorrow afternoon, if work permits, or sometime Friday.

 

I thought it is a good idea to have some limits defined so we can easier agree on which direction the story should go.

 

I don't see my story breaking the boundaries of any limits that you might impose. It's very much in the tradition of Thief. But I will wait and see what the guidelines are. :ph34r:

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With "limits" I just meant that we collect preferences from our team members, so we will know what should absolutely NOT be in there or what should definitely be in. That's more in terms of some map settings which we want to have.

 

And one thing I forgot to mention earlier. The limitation of 6 levels does not apply to cutscenes. So you can have intro and per-level animations as fancy as you like, to drive your story. :)

Gerhard

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And one thing I forgot to mention earlier. The limitation of 6 levels does not apply to cutscenes. So you can have intro and per-level animations as fancy as you like, to drive your story. :)

Will these intros be done in 'classic Thief style', or using the ingame engine?

 

Have you decided upon the limits you wish to impose upon the storyline? I'll be done with work for the week at three o' clock (GMT), so I can concentrate on this. :)

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classic thief stlye would be nice, but that depends also on you. :) We have good artists who can do any style.

I hath returned! My feet no longer shackled by the chains of work. :lol:

 

Classic Thief style cut-scenes would be best. I wouldn't turn my nose up at those sepia/black & white intro movies with voice over either. *nostalgia* :ph34r:

 

How is the list of rules and limitations for the plot coming along? :)

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NH has given me the summary.

 

Story focus is on the main character's life, paying the rent, joining a guild, removing an obstacle to business, a competitor, as opposed to grand prophecies or ancient evils or wars between factions. Any or all of those could provide a backdrop, but the story should be more personal than T3.

 

The wording here is a little unclear. Does this mean the story should only be about the main character's life, paying the rent, joining a guild, removing an obstacle to business, a competitor, ecetra, without any suggestion of a larger plot involving other forces, or that the focus should simply be on the more mundane aspects of Thievery while a grander plot involving outer forces can be revealed as the BIG picture comes into focus? It would seem rather strange for a Thief game to eschew these things completely, since they are a well loved ingredient in all the Thief games and most great fan missions. :)

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NH has given me the summary.

 

 

 

The wording here is a little unclear. Does this mean the story should only be about the main character's life, paying the rent, joining a guild, removing an obstacle to business, a competitor, ecetra, without any suggestion of a larger plot involving other forces, or that the focus should simply be on the more mundane aspects of Thievery while a grander plot involving outer forces can be revealed as the BIG picture comes into focus? It would seem rather strange for a Thief game to eschew these things completely, since they are a well loved ingredient in all the Thief games and most great fan missions. :)

Sorry about the confusion. There are greater things at work in the background, you are correct there, but we don't want it to be a "save the world" type of premise. Much like real life, there are things going on in the background that affect our day to day business. I would suspect that our characters motivations would be based on the fact that his life is being disturbed. Not by his good will. ;)

 

Anyway, short answer...yes, there are larger threads in the background...but they should not be immediately aware to the player or our main character. These things can be hinted at through disruptions in our characters life. Perhaps what seems to be disturbing his life on the surface is later revealed to be a part of something larger. Sorry to be so vague, but I don't want to push you in any specific direction or taint your line of thinking. :)

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