prominence of music in FMs

[slavatrumpevitch]

I was playing the thief 2 fm King's Story last night, and noticed the heavy use of classical music throughout. What are people's opinions on this? Does it detract from gameplay, or is it stylistically out of place? Personally, I liked it, but as somewhat of a classical music junkie, this is not unexpected.

 

I'm toying with the idea of making a mission inspired by the orchestral song-cycle "The Old Burying Ground" by Evan Chambers with music from the cycle playing a role not only in ambiance/mood, but also having some gameplay implications.

 

Do people think this could be effective and fun (if done well, of course) or would people think that this was "not consistent with the ideals of TDM"

[demagogue]

The best answer I think is it just depends on the music and the environment and there isn't a hard rule. I should say in my own FM, I think the bg ambient (quite music-like) in the warehouse was vital to its atmosphere and it would have suffered without it. So it just depends, but I think generally players are willing to go with it if it's thought out and fits.

[aidakeeley]

I think anybody who makes anything approaching King's Story in TDM?!??

 

Is going to be a legend.

 

Man I wish that thing had been made with DR.

 

Yes, I like.

[slavatrumpevitch]

let's not get ahead of ourselves here, I'm not promising anything *close* to King's Story :-P as epic as that might be.

 

I just wanted to probe, and see if there was interest in a music inspired mission.

 

I think I might just go ahead and start working on this when classes are done.

[aidakeeley]

I know I was just itching to say that one more time -- about King's Story. An EXCELLENT adventure (only ruined by the fact that it relied a bunch on the worst aspects of T2) Alas! But still so very good.

 

And still though it may not be that ambitious, your mission sounds very, very cool and ambitious in its own right. Indeed. I look forward to something created by someone who is passionate about their ideas and their inspiration.

Edited May 6, 2010 by aidakeeley

[jaxa]

It depends on the mission. King's Story was based on real-life characters and made great use of the classical music. It was the right music for the right mission and it is a judgment call.

 

Is this it:

?

 

I'd recommend making sure the loudness is appropriate for the mission. If needed you could reduce the decibels of certain bits using Audacity.

[Neb]

I'm going to program in (my keyboard is broken) one of Chopin's nocturnes for my mission. I wondered what people would think about that, but decided to go ahead entirely because the specific piece reminds me of Thief so badly.

[slavatrumpevitch]

which nocturne? E-minor? I love all his piano works.

 

I was just going through some of my iTunes looking for good ominous music.

I found youtube videos for what I'm talking about, it's not as good as what I was listening to, but it's close.

 

Anyone know the intro to the 2nd half of Stravinsky's Rite of Spring?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfAcl7FIgNg#t=0m6s

it sounds perfect sneaking around a misty cemetery.

 

or the tail end of Johan de Meij's Lothlorien from his Lord of the Rings Symphony?

at 6:45:

sounds to me like creeping down a tense, darkly lit, spooky, and cavernous passageway. Especially the way it appears to echo it's way down the corridor.

 

your thoughts?

 

Please post your ideas too!

[Neb]

which nocturne?  E-minor?

 

. I can just see the moonlight shards piercing the air through a skylight. 

 

 

 

[Neb]

Anyone know the intro to the 2nd half of Stravinsky's Rite of Spring?

http://www.youtube.c...cl7FIgNg#t=0m6s

it sounds perfect sneaking around a misty cemetery.

 

or the tail end of Johan de Meij's Lothlorien from his Lord of the Rings Symphony?

at 6:45:

sounds to me like creeping down a tense, darkly lit, spooky, and cavernous passageway.  Especially the way it appears to echo it's way down the corridor.

 

your thoughts?

Aside from possible copyright problems with using the audio, both pieces would be really problematic to implement properly. There's so much volatile suspense in there that you are threatening the player, but risk annoying them if they can't hear the danger coming or if there really was no immediate danger after all. That's my personal opinion.

 

 

[demagogue]

I'd think about it like any other scene-building thing. Put it in then play test it with an open mind to keep it if it works or toss it if it doesn't. That's what play testing is for... It's hard to prejudge whether something works until you get yourself in there and see how it plays.

[slavatrumpevitch]

Absolutely, play-testing is what it really all comes down to.

 

I'm sure this will probably draw vehement opposition from many in this forum, but is there any way to implement "smart-music" in TDM, such that it will vary based on some pre-determined factor(s)?

 

for instance, I think the most viable would be to have it hinge based on nearby-guard alter level.

 

i.e. music is slightly ominous, but more or less tranquil while guards remain ignorant of the player's existence. but if they start snooping around looking, music gets more tense, and if they guard is absolutely sure they saw something fishy, it becomes yet more tense, culminating in the "fight or flight" music which is essentially the most dramatic, and most driving music, reserved for only an open confrontation, or an instance where the player is running full-speed with a guard hot on their heels?

 

could such a thing be done? And, equally importantly, *should* such a thing be done? I personally think, it could be rather effective in heightening the player's emotional investment in the experience, but only if it was implemented with the utmost care. In other words, not just a rehash of oblivion music system.

[demagogue]

Yes, that wouldn't be hard. Speakers happen to work pretty much just like buttons & doors. If you trigger them they turn on. If you trigger them again they turn back off. I'd have to think about how to do that with in-game stuff, but my first impulse is to think of using a script that checks (getKey's) the guards' alert levels and triggers the script when it's at a certain level. (Just remember to keep track of turning them on and off, because triggering doesn't turn them "on", it switches the state.)

 

For the record, although the location_system script for location ambients is a different animal, it still might be instructive on how to script with speakers, so it's worth glancing at maybe.

[aidakeeley]

Sounds intriguing!

[ungoliant]

well another thing about that would be keeping the music aligned. If these changing musics need to keep time with eachother, say in 3 levels, maybe you could keep all the speakers on at all times, but with the ones that aren't active having their volume level at 0. so instead of switching speakers on and off with a potential jarring music change, maybe a guard going into search mode triggers 1 of the speakers volume to be raised so it is audible to the player, and gets smoothly layered on top of the other (if you want both playing at the same time).

[chakkman]

Bit off-topic but a big commendation to the guy/s doing the kind of ambient style soundscape when you pause a mission. Sounds rly rly great and reminds me very much of the Thief games. All in all i have to say the music/effects are very professionally done.