A few issues I have with blackjacking and approaching from behind

[jtr7]

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Edited February 19, 2014 by jtr7

[Skaruts]

I haven't touched the game since yesterday. Sorry. As soon as I get to play I'll record some stuff. Probably not today, still. Too tired for slow games.

 

But I know a few spots in two or three missions where I had a bit of trouble, so I'm hoping I can replicate this fairly easily tomorrow.

 

 

(the picture doesn't want to be in the quote)

 

Oh! I missunderstood it then. Sorry. It makes sense in that case. I thought you were talking about the upwards movement. But in this case I'm less inclined to believe I hit with it, then, but I still can't say for sure. I'll have to try to get it happen again.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Skaruts

[Skaruts]

I tried the blackjack training mission a bit, but I don't think it mimicks the real gameplay accurately, since the guards can't see me at all with just the ambient light. So they react only to the sound, and they don't reach full alert very easily, it seems.

 

I can just run up to them and blackjack without any problems in this map.

 

Does it make a different sound when you hit with the elbow? I was trying to discern the sounds but the guard was already attacking me and I couldn't tell for sure. Seemed like it was the same sound.

 

EDIT: one thing I noticed, though, is that even when I bump into them I don't fail to blackjack them by hitting with the elbow.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Skaruts

[RJFerret]

Cool, but huh, that is real gameplay, how would other lights affect being heard or felt (assuming approaching from behind)?

 

If approaching from in front or from side, you'd need to douse any lights or expect they'll see you coming.

 

Note, the degree of vision can be limited by things the guards wear (eyepatch, helmets) or increased by mappers (typically 150° left/right and 120 vertically).

[Skaruts]

Cool, but huh, that is real gameplay, how would other lights affect being heard or felt (assuming approaching from behind)?

I don't know. But my blackjacking rate was nearly 100% consistent in that map, while on other maps it never is that much.

 

I noticed Score to Settle changes the difficulty of the AI depending on the difficulty setting of the map. Does this override the game's main difficulty settings? Or in other words, can maps override the difficulty settings?

Edited February 7, 2014 by Skaruts

[Springheel]

I tried the blackjack training mission a bit, but I don't think it mimicks the real gameplay accurately, since the guards can't see me at all

 

The only difference is that the AI are blind. If you're approaching from behind there shouldn't be any difference between that map and others.

 

I noticed Score to Settle changes the dificulty of the AI depending on the difficulty setting of the map. Does this overrides the game difficulty settings?

 

Yes. On the hardest difficulty it bumps up the AI's hearing a bit. I'm not sure if any other maps do this.

 

Does it make a different sound when you hit with the elbow?

I don't believe so. There is a different sound if you hit a helmet, but that's it.

[Skaruts]

But does it override the main settings? Or better yet, does it stack with the main settings?

 

I'm asking this because I find it weird that I'm playing this training mission in hardcore difficulty and I'm just running around blackjacking guards without any problems. Well, to be fair I take the carpet and get out a few meters distance from them, and then I walk until I'm in range. I couldn't do ths in Score to Settle and I was on Forgiving (but on hard in the FM's difficulty). Guards and thugs there would get aggro almost instantly and BJ would fail a lot. Same for some other FMs.

 

I'll go play StS for a bit.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Skaruts

[Springheel]

But does it override the main settings?

 

Yes.

 

And "Forgiving" only affects how quickly AI recognize you if they spot you in the shadows. It should have no impact on blackjacking from behind.

[GUFF]

There's a few tricks that make blackjacking easier but will affect your stealth score by causing the AI to at least stop and look. Walking behind them until they hear a sound and stop then switching your move speed over to sneak and popping them works very well. You can also mostly walk towards an AI and then break into a run and pop them before you make a footstep sound which sometimes may even stop them from raising your score if you're good at it.

 

Depending on surfaces present, if you're on the quiet surfaces like carpet you can actually run. Another old tactic from the original Thief games is the jump-jack (which actually had an entry in the stats screen in the first two Dark engine Thief games) where you cover some ground without making any sound and land the blackjack mid-flight, just don't use it when multiple AIs are around unless you're landing on quiet surfaces.

 

I don't blackjack as much in the Dark Mod as I used to in Thief because the guard patrol routes in most FMs are not awful and they tend to take some time to get to and back to wherever they were going, and then they usually have stops in their patrol routes as well. Ghosting is easier in TDM in my opinion. Once you get used to the mechanics, anyway.

[Skaruts]

Yes. And "Forgiving" only affects how quickly AI recognize you if they spot you in the shadows. It should have no impact on blackjacking from behind.

 

Indeed. I didn't notice and I didn't remember it: The setting is solely for AI vision. I was changing the difficulty with the idea that it was overall difficulty of the AI, and I wasn't even reading it. So my comparisons were moot.

 

So perhaps I was having trouble with the acuteness of the AI's hearing in Score to Settle. It was there that I started questioning this stuff. I remember it happening in some other FM, but can't remember which.

Edited February 8, 2014 by Skaruts

[Skaruts]

Having this issue with the light gem while recording...

[Springheel]

FRAP said they fixed that bug a while ago.

[Obsttorte]

I'm not sure what "main settings" you mean. As far as I know there are no differences between the difficulty levels, unless implemented by the mapper.