Normalmap Problem

[Springheel]

Take a look at glee's screenshot:

 

 

Clearly the normal is reversed for the wooden floor texture. Anyone recognize which one it is?

[oDDity]

Wooden floors don't even need a normal map, they'd look much better with a heightmap.

[Springheel]

What's the difference between the two?

[oDDity]

A heightmap would look better on wood becasue the details are too fine for a normal map. It makes everything look 'fat' like it's plaster moulded into woodgrain. The normal map would be fine for the main lines between the boards, but the heightmap would do just as well for that too.

[Springheel]

I didn't even know there was a difference. How do you make a heightmap as opposed to a normalmap?

[Corth]

Height map is black and white, just like a bump map. Normal = rgb.

 

I dont want to argue with oDDity here, but

[oDDity]

I didn't even know there was a difference. How do you make a heightmap as opposed to a normalmap?

Yes, just greysacle the image and adjust the levels till you're happey. It brings out the fine details in the woodgrain much better than a normal map, plus there's no ambiguirty as to which way it'll be facing in the game. Blacker -= deeper, and lighter =- higher.

[BlackThief]

Clearly the normal is reversed for the wooden floor texture. Anyone recognize which one it is?

I'll fix it ASAP.

[Fingernail]

erm...Oddity, D3 renders normalmaps from any heightmaps...it doesn't use any displacement mapping or anything, so heightmaps are just ANOTHER method of making normalmaps.

[oDDity]

I know that, but using a height map for the fine details in textures and then usually blending them with the geometry normal map is what they were included for.

The results look far better.

[oDDity]

Example:

 

[Domarius]

Hmm, I see. The cracks look sharper in oDDity's, but in the normal map one, they look nice and round.

 

Spring, if you're interested, a height map only stores "height" information, where the closer to white the pixel is, the higher it is.

 

A normal map only stores "normal" information, that is, the angle that the pixel is facing in. The RGB values are abused to store angle info, which is why normal maps are predomanantly blue (facing up) and impossible to edit by hand - they are meant to be generated by the computer from a high poly 3D model.

But I saw a technique for making normal maps by taking 4 different photos of the same thing something with the light from different sides each time and blending them together somehow.

Edited May 7, 2005 by Domarius

[oDDity]

Hmm, I see. The cracks look sharper in oDDity's, but in the normal map one, they look nice and round.

YOu say that as if it's a good thing. Wood grain doens not look 'nice and round' like it's been molded from clay, it looks sharp- ever get a splinter?

[Darkness_Falls]

Which one would be better to use for a sanded and waxed floor? Just brainstorming to see if normalmaps should ever be used for wood.

 

You wouldn't want to give the appearance on a hardwood mansion floor that you'll get splinters if you go barefoot.

[oDDity]

A smooth suface like sanded or varnished wood doesn't even need a grain bump, just a normal map consisting of lines where the spaces between the planks are. The texture effect for the varnished wood would be achieved with spec aps alone.

IN that cube above, the spaces between the planks are a normal map, and the wood grain is a heightmap.

[Domarius]

Wood grain is not meant to be "nice and round", I was emphasising the innapropriatness by putting it that way.

[Fingernail]

I think there's some random shit being talked up here:

 

a normalmap is a normalmap. However it's generated, they're both at the same resolution, and therefore capable of holding the SAME amount of detail.

 

This is about the method of generating the normalmap; by painting fine details on a heightmap you can get more control than running an image through the 2D filter. But by far the best way would be to accurately model the wood in Lightwave and use renderbumpflat; this saves on loading time because D3 has to generate normals from heightmaps at runtime otherwise, instead of just loading them.

[oDDity]

Get a clue please.

Using the heightmap method is beter than modeling it in lightwave becasue it's at least a million times faster, if you're talking about modeling every single detail of the wood grain.

ON the ther hand, you could just the greyscale image of the wood as a displacment map on a basic planks model and export the displaced model from layout and then just renderbump. That would also be a waste of time, since you would see virtually no difference from just using the greysacle image directly as a heightmap.

All I have to say is look at my texturing results, I know what I'm doing.

[Fingernail]

More like look at your signature, rite ???

 

 

Heightmap->Displacement->Normal would be better in terms of saving D3 work, though.