Better way to distinguish between dead and unconscious AI

[MirceaKitsune]

Initially wanted not to post about this, I told myself it's just another useless feature that would waste time before a release and all. But it does carry actual gameplay limitations I run into: I often have no way to tell if an enemy is dead or just knocked out. If the FM has a "don't kill anyone" objective that makes it clear, otherwise you need to pick up the body and see what the text says.

In the past you could tell by their eyes: Dead AI would have them open while knocked out AI had them closed. Last time I played it seemed like even this stopped working and both cases had their eyes shut... a recent bug perhaps? In any case it's often a difficult cue to find, so I wonder if anything better would be possible.

Obviously AI become ragdolls so animating any important bones is surely impossible: I'd suggest making them move slightly so it's clear they're still breathing, but this would likely send the ragdoll shaking all over the place since they probably can't handle an animation being mixed in.

So here's one idea that should work great: Alongside the eyes we could have the mouth be open, which is easier to spot from a close distance. Knocked out AI have their mouth closed, dead AI have it open which is a clear cue and also looks more... well, dead. Another would be to add the snoring sound to knocked out AI... now I'm curious if in real life someone being knocked unconscious snores like when they're asleep, don't try it out of course

[datiswous]

I would rather have an icon show the status of the body when it is frob-highlighted. So a skull icon or an healthy face with closed eyes icon, for example.

[snatcher]

Approach the body and frob it, available in the TDM Modpack & the Unofficial Patch for some time now.

(Not really useful in 2.12 with default settings)

[MirceaKitsune]

4 hours ago, datiswous said:

I would rather have an icon show the status of the body when it is frob-highlighted. So a skull icon or an healthy face with closed eyes icon, for example.

I believe TDM takes a minimalistic approach to he HUD, which I think is a good idea since we prefer realism and focusing on the environment rather than having icons and indicators everywhere. Something like modifying the frob helper crosshair when looking at a body could work though, eg: Empty circle when AI is dead or the normal white dot when alive.

2 hours ago, snatcher said:

Approach the body and frob it, available in the TDM Modpack & the Unofficial Patch for some time now.

(Not really useful in 2.12 with default settings)

It works that way by default yeah, it's what I was referring to: If you pick up a body the text confirms it, will say "person" or "person's body" accordingly. It does require picking up and moving the AI: A solution might be the text appearing just by highlighting the body, still relies on the HUD confirming it but that would be like checking the AI's pulse so it works.

Edited January 19 by MirceaKitsune

[datiswous]

4 minutes ago, MirceaKitsune said:

A solution might be the text appearing just by highlighting the body, still relies on the HUD confirming it but that would be like checking the AI's pulse so it works.

I thought there was actually a topic from @snatcherabout this.

[snatcher]

No, to get the text in vanilla TDM you must shoulder the body. The alternative you are looking at is modded.

3 minutes ago, MirceaKitsune said:

A solution might be the text appearing just by highlighting the body [...]

Interesting

4 minutes ago, MirceaKitsune said:

[...] that would be like checking the AI's pulse so it works.

That was the idea for the modded version.

[datiswous]

 

[snatcher]

Right, @datiswous.

That other initiative requires Team Work. No interest so far.

[datiswous]

12 minutes ago, MirceaKitsune said:

Something like modifying the frob helper crosshair when looking at a body could work though, eg: Empty circle when AI is dead or the normal white dot when alive.

Yeah, great idea. I guess it could read if it's a body or a ragdoll?

[wesp5]

10 hours ago, datiswous said:

Yeah, great idea. I guess it could read if it's a body or a ragdoll?

I'm sure many people don't use the frob helper. I like the idea much better that the name is displayed if the body is highlighted! Snatcher, could you possibly change your current show-name-on-frob feature into this?

Edited January 20 by wesp5

[snatcher]

52 minutes ago, wesp5 said:

I'm sure many people don't use the frob helper.

It's enabled by default in 2.12. Most players will keep it, I guess.

52 minutes ago, wesp5 said:

I like the idea much better that the name is displayed if the body is highlighted! Snatcher, could you possibly change your current show-name-on-frob feature into this?

On second thought I think we better not. The text on frob servers three purposes:

• Get to know the name of AI (if any) without the need of shouldering.
• Get to know the status (KO/Dead) of AI without the need of shouldering.
• Get to know if something is in the grabber, but this is minor, and it could only be considered a feature if all objects had a proper name.

The player triggers the text with his/her actions. If we do it on highlight then it is us who is triggering it, and the player may or may not want it displayed at that moment.

Back on topic,

16 hours ago, MirceaKitsune said:

In the past you could tell by their eyes: Dead AI would have them open while knocked out AI had them closed. Last time I played it seemed like even this stopped working and both cases had their eyes shut... a recent bug perhaps?

Yeah, this is something I noticed too.

16 hours ago, MirceaKitsune said:

So here's one idea that should work great: Alongside the eyes we could have the mouth be open, which is easier to spot from a close distance. Knocked out AI have their mouth closed, dead AI have it open which is a clear cue and also looks more... well, dead.

 

I like this idea very much. I think it could work.

Also, a new arg for mappers: on_death_tongue_out.