Elite Draw Sword Examples

[Domarius]

We know that the sword is longer than the arm of the guy, so that he can't draw it out without intersecting through the frog (the holder of the sword).

 

oDDity said that if the anim is fast enough, no one will notice.

 

I created 3 different sword drawing anims, with the sword leaving the frog in different ways.

 

I would like to see what everyone thinks. Which one of these covers up the intersection best? Can there be a better way?

 

These are only rough example anims while we work out this intersection thing.

 

Version 1

This one his arm cuts across his waist in a semi-circle. I thought this could look really cool and vicious if I do it right.

Version 2

This one same as previous but his arm raises up to pull the sword out most of the way.

Version 3

This one same as previous but his sword tip flips out forward instead of out sideways through his other hand. To best see this I rendered it at a different angle.

[Ishtvan]

I think I like #2 the best. #1 doesn't have enough hand arcing to it IMO, and makes cutting through the frog (and his other hand) rather noticable. #3 looks a bit unnatural to be holding the sword with one's wrist twisted around like that.

 

It looks like his sword arm might be completely straight when he finishes drawing. I can't tell because of the angle though. I think you'd want some bend to the elbow to look more natural and combat-ready.

 

Also, if you're going to blend this into the "combat idle," you probably want to move his non-sword hand to wherever it's going to be during that anim, right now it just kind've stays at the frog. Other than that, looks pretty good to me.

 

Btw, I wasn't thinking about this when we last talked, but it's possible someone could get into that stance by stepping forward with the non-sword foot instead of stepping back with the sword foot. To me it just seems more natural for someone who's surprised to step back defensively to get into the stance, to be as safe as possible, but others might think that doesn't look confident enough.

[Darkness_Falls]

I also like the 2nd one best. Looks more plausible and not as awkward.

[Domarius]

#3 looks a bit unnatural to be holding the sword with one's wrist twisted around like that.

Oh, I think that can be changed. What would you think about this one if his wrist didn't look wierd?

 

It looks like his sword arm might be completely straight when he finishes drawing. I can't tell because of the angle though. I think you'd want some bend to the elbow to look more natural and combat-ready.

 

Also, if you're going to blend this into the "combat idle," you probably want to move his non-sword hand to wherever it's going to be during that anim, right now it just kind've stays at the frog. Other than that, looks pretty good to me.

These are all because it's not finished yet I did the bare minimum to get him to draw the sword.

 

Btw, I wasn't thinking about this when we last talked, but it's possible someone could get into that stance by stepping forward with the non-sword foot instead of stepping back with the sword foot. To me it just seems more natural for someone who's surprised to step back defensively to get into the stance, to be as safe as possible, but others might think that doesn't look confident enough.

I thought he should step back too, just seems like the smart thing to do at the moment.

[Springheel]

I prefer #2 to #1...don't see a major difference between #2 and #3.

[SneaksieDave]

Two is the better of the bunch for sure, but something's weird. I think it might be too sudden/jerky, and/or maybe that the rest of his body (head shoulders legs) remains perfectly still while he's drawing. So that's the bare minimum thing you mentioned I guess.

 

I'm not sure what the problem is with drawing it full out? Are the model arms too short (they don't look it). I have a 39" bladed long sword, I'm 5'10" and not an ape, but I can draw my sword out of the sheath just fine.

[Domarius]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I will base the real sword drawing anim on #2 then.

 

Sneaksie, this is the thread where I demonstrated the sword is too long.

http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=3195

We concluded you'd be pulling back the frog to pull it the rest of the way out, but you can't do that with this model.

I'm sure in real life you can draw a longer sword, but there are some (quite reasonable) physical restrictions on this rig.

[oDDity]

IT doesn't matter, no one's going to be studying the animation in-game. It'll barely be noticed no matter which way you do it.

I dont' think you can afford to take this long over every animation, worrying over every little detail, just perform the motions yourself and base it on that.

[Domarius]

This isn't taking time - I post things and work on something else while I get feedback. I'm staggering my work so I'm still animating in all my free time - there is no time being wasted.

 

These variations took like 30 mins all up. They are only rough.

 

Since I started I've produced one animation a day, and that's only in my free time.

 

Besides, I like input, even the littlest, it forces me to improve.

 

And why would I put all my work into one way of doing an anim, down to the last detail, only to have you go "I don't like it."? (Like, in the running thread, for example?) Of course I'm going to put forth early variations on critical things. And this is fairly critical - we're talking about cheating through the geometry. I can notice it as plain as day, so I should be worried that other people think it looks just as bad.

 

First you're lecturing me on just keep putting work into it till I get it right, now you're telling me to speed up and not worry about how it looks? I'll do it as I please, thankyou very much.

[oDDity]

Still, there are so many to do and so little time now. We're going to have to start knocking them out and not worry about details and perfection.

[Domarius]

Well it's been two months since I already suggested that approach - if the situation has truely become as you describe it in the span of only two months... *gives you suscpicious glare* ...then I say that I feel I've been through the best of the detailed feedback anyway and am probably competent enough to be outputting them quicker, as seems to be the case since no one is providing any detailed critisism. Well either I've gotten better or they don't care anymore. Personally I think it's the former, or both.

[oDDity]

Well, it's hard to judge just when the game wil lbe released, but there are a shitload of animaitons to be done, that's for sure.

[squill]

most fluid animation comes from paying attention to the secondary animations. Like when you draw your sword the arm will hold at a particular position but the hand and sword will swing/dangle a bit after it because of the weight. Those details make the movements more believable and less looking tweened. Just my 2 cents.

 

also when taking the sword he could bend a bit more over because he puts more weight on his right leg.

[sparhawk]

The major problem I have with these animations is, that they all look as if they were cutting through the hand, or some in between frames were missing. I guess this is because the sword is pretty long. The beginning of the anim looks pretty smooth (when he moves the hand to grab the sword), but when he starts to actually draw it, it gets chopped up.

Since we need a lot of animations, we could accept them as such now and finetune them later, but the problem, that I see with such an approach is, that it might never be done, once it is accepted because we get used to it.

On the other hand, the game would still work with it, and maybe we can draw the attention of additional animators when we release it like this, to help out with the finetuning.

Saying that players will not notice it is obvisouly wrong. After all, this game is about obvservation, and the player spends a lot of time staring at the AI. Even if this were not so, it is quite obvious.

[Domarius]

Trust me, I am not happy with this "clipping through" solution to drawing the sword.

 

But oDDity says it will do, and I'm just going with it for now. If people complain, then it's on his head since he modelled it, and it won't take much for me to re-animate it when that happens.

[sparhawk]

The clipping si very obvious. And since people also notice really minor stuff, like wrong pixels on textures, you can't really expect to get away with it.

 

As I said, it depends on how we want to proceed. Since we need a lot of anims, it might do for now.

[Domarius]

I have been playing T2X a while back, and it has me thinking.

 

I notice a lot of quality issues in that game, some things that would not pass people's standards here.

 

But look how long it took to develop. And it was just a mod, not a whole new set of programming.

 

The game got out the door, and people are finally playing it. So there are a few quality issues, but the game it out, and it's a great game over all.

 

We should seriously consider what this means.

[sparhawk]

They didn't have to do their own animations, though, did they?

 

The problem is, that human animations are very well known to other humans, so if they look off, it is much more easily noticable then if a texture is placed wrong or a gap in the geometry.

[oDDity]

It's no problem if it clips through the little leather frog, but it's not necessary to have it clipping through the hand.

[Domarius]

Yeah I can change that.