Size Standards

[SneaksieDave]

[Springheel]

Does the above mean that the camera was previously 6'3" tall??

 

Ok, then are we back to a six and a half foot tall player again? We'll definitely have to shrink the player model if so...in fact, the camera itself will have to be adjusted since it's already at 6'3".

[Domarius]

But we're not going from 1 meter to 10 meters, we're going from 1.1 to 1, so will that really be noticible?

[Ishtvan]

But we're not going from 1 meter to 10 meters, we're going from 1.1 to 1, so will that really be noticible?

 

I said it'll be about 5% off, that's usually noticable. Also, when I was playing around with some forces like on the rope arrow, even a small change can make a big difference in behavior when overcoming friction forces and deciding when to activate an AF and stuff like that.

 

I think we might be making a bit too much of this though. It seems like scale is a pretty subjective thing, and how often do you work from a detailed RL floorplan with measurements of everything? I think there are even comments in the code saying a doom unit is supposed to be an inch, but mappers came up with the 1.1 because it didn't quite look right.

 

I'm not a mapper, but it seems like the easiest thing to do would be leave the camera height alone, leave the distance units of the world alone, and use a standard AI model to get a sense of scale. If converting from RL measurements (how often do you have a floorplan so detailed that everything has a measurement anyway?), you can always start out with 1:1 and then adjust it if it looks off ingame.

[Ishtvan]

Also, I think I might've gotten it wrong, 1 inch = 1.1 units, not the other way around. From the post it's derived in though, you can see this derivation was pretty arbitrary and started by assuming D3 characters were 6 ft tall. Here's the link:

 

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:1gIieo...us&ct=clnk&cd=1

 

(had to use Google's cache because D3world seems to be down right now)

 

Also, you can see that Brian Harris points out the effect of the wide FOV getting condensed down into a monitor screwing things up a bit. If our monitor were actually a window into the room with an FOV of something like 60 instead of 90, proportions would look more correct, but it's not.

 

The bottom line from that thread seems to be just pick a standard character to scale things around, and if you must use something, if you assume people are 6 ft tall then 1 inch = 1.1 units.

[SneaksieDave]

What height would we have to assume for 1:1? Yes, I don't want to figure out the math, because I'd do it exactly backwards.

 

Anyway, all this had me wondering why on earth id would choose anything like 1:1.1 instead of just 1:1, so maybe it really is... and all the actors in D3 are either freaky tall or freaky short (depending on the outcome of the aforementioned math).

 

Edit: nevermind, it's answered in the post. Approx 6'8". Bah.

[sparhawk]

I don't really understand this sudden urge to redo everything. Until Oddity left everything was fine. Nobody complained that the sizes were to big or to low, and we have all seen the human models before, and even used them ingame. Now we are trying to redo everything just because Spring thinks them to be to big? If they are to big, why didn't you say so right from the start? This seems to me quite out of proprotion.

[Domarius]

It's got nothing to do with oDDity.

[sparhawk]

Are you on a crusade for Oddity? Where did I say that it had to do something with Odd? Fact is, that nobody complained about the size until Oddity left.

 

Though I agree, that they always felt a bit big for my taste.

[BlackThief]

spar sarcasm....

 

 

from down-under

[sparhawk]

So we had some of the models for how long? More than a year at least. If this is such a pressing issue, why does it come up now, where we have to do much more models, then before, when we started with the first model?

 

Don't know where you see the sarcasm in that...

[BlackThief]

dom was sarcastic. of course it had something to do with oddity - just check the old threads. whenever someone criticized the size of his models he said that he's doing the models and thus he decides on the size of them.

[sparhawk]

Ah! OK.

 

I remeber only one thread where he showed the sizes in relation to each other which seemed to be ok at the time.

[Springheel]

Nobody complained that the sizes were to big or to low, and we have all seen the human models before, and even used them ingame. Now we are trying to redo everything just because Spring thinks them to be to big? If they are to big, why didn't you say so right from the start?

 

From our multipage discussion in January:

http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=3244&st=0

 

 

oh god don't make him a midget!

 

Damn, that elite guard is one big mofo.

 

Maybe a tad tiny, the thief. How about another couple of inches, so that we look down into the eyes of yon fair maiden?

 

That's pretty tiny, shorter than my mother. ...

I don't think the elite guards should be that big however.

 

5'8" at the smallest I say. Anything under that is short [for the thief].

 

I agree the elites are a little tall.

 

Virtually everyone thought the hieght difference between the thief and guards was too high. In fact the only people arguing the heights were ok were you and Oddity.

[sparhawk]

You see?

[Springheel]

I think it's clear that the distance between the thief model and the AI guards is too high. And since the camera has to stay in the same spot, our only option is to shrink the AI guards a bit. Fortunately that shouldn't be very difficult to do now.

[Springheel]

and use a standard AI model to get a sense of scale.

 

Hey, where have I heard that idea before?

 

Just out of curiosity, does Odd's thief model actually match up with the camera in terms of height? Or is that something we can't test until we actually get the model?

[sparhawk]

We have to get the model to make it complete. We didn't put much work in that, because I requested the player model several times from Odd already. I need it to make the lightgem finished. Tim also wants to address the clipping problem, but I don't see much point in that, until we have the player model. I would really appreciate it, if we could get it sooner than later.

[oDDity]

If you want to resize the AI you have to do it before they are rigged, and then it only takes a few seconds.

I will upload all the stuff in a rar file, there's a huge amount of it. around 1000 objects (models, textures, scenes and it's over 1gb unrared.

Raring it gets it down to 350 mb, so I'll up it to the FTP.

There's probably more stuff lying around in other folders as well.

I just kept everything in one big folder called 'mymodels', so there's about 700 objects in the, but it's all named logically so you shouldn't have trouble finding anything. THere are subfolders with maya scenes and animations for the weapons and charaters.

[sparhawk]

Cool! I hope you can upload it as soon as possible, as this would be a VERY valuable addition.

[Domarius]

I seriously can't wait to get my hands on that :)

All those awesome models... so much learning material...

[Dram]

Yes, thanks oDD

[oDDity]

I've tried upping it twice but it keps cutting off before it finishes. IT takes 3 hours to upload as well, so I can't really be bothered trying it again.

I guess I'll have to make smaller archives and upload them bit by bit.

[Fingernail]

Yes, I think the ftp doesn't like long uploads or downloads very much...

[sparhawk]

NH has an FTP which is more reliable, but it also cut off in between. I had to cut it in 50MB pieces, to make sure everythinhg works fine. Maybe NH can send you his FTP details?

You could also upload it on my FTP, but cutting it in pieces should still be done nevertheless.