Make a map, get arrested

[oDDity]

BTW, I know some of you thinking I'm trolling here, but I'm not. I genuinely disagree with such a game, and think he should be punished for making it.

What's next - a game where you model a version of your local kindergarten and pretend to rape the kids?

Why is that wrong, and a game pretending to shoot them is ok?

[Springheel]

With the number of school shootings in the US, and the ease with which any disgruntled nerd can get a gun, it's no wonder they might over-react to things like this. After the Columbine shootings a case made major headlines because a teacher suspended an elementary student for pointing a chicken finger at someone and saying "bang".

 

That said, I agree with Oddity that it's certainly a valid response if the map involved running around and shooting students and teachers.

 

If there is NO good reason to suspect that he is homicidal, then he is innocent and expelling him is totally unjustified.

 

Expelling him is designed to send a message about appropriate behaviour, I assume. I find it unlikely he was expelled for having the map on his home HD, so he was presumably sharing it as well, so whether he personally is homicidal or not is not the only concern. Again, it depends on the specifics of the case, which I'm unaware of.

 

I also disagree that expelling him won't have any effect. If he IS someone capable of going on a shooting rampage in the future, then removing him from the school environment might reduce the possibility of him reaching the 'breaking point'. It may also reduce his emotional attachment to the school over time, so that if he does reach a breaking point, he is less likely to choose it as his place to 'get revenge'.

[Ombrenuit]

We're talking about pre-emptive action here, not punishment.

 

1. IF there was good reason to suspect that the guy was likely to go on a shooting spree (which AFAIK there isn't), then immediate action would be required to prevent it. Expelling him would be completely ineffective in this regard, unless they are planning to also lock down the school and deploy armed guards to prevent him from entering.

2. If there is NO good reason to suspect that he is homicidal, then he is innocent and expelling him is totally unjustified.

 

Good reasons? I'm sorry, but you can't know. You just can't. You can't monitor his brain to see if he's thinking about doing that sort of thing, and generally, these sorts of things are the only clues we have. Oftentimes, evidence only means something in retrospect because evidence alone can't predict the future. Only past behavior can predict the future; if this went unpunished and he shot up the school, America would be screaming "Look! All the signs were there!" So that brings into question, do homicidal people provide good reasons to believe they are homicidal? Or is this the best forewarning we get?

 

Yeah, it doesn't necessarily mean he will do it, but I don't necessarily think its an over reaction. Why? Because obviously he did something to get it noticed. Making a map of your school is one thing (I mapped out my school in a fantasy mud once heh) but how would anyone find out? The point is, he did something to get it noticed and someone was concerned enough to report it.

 

A ) It got attention. Attention seeking behaivor is oftentimes a sign of a call for help. It doesn't mean it is. But it's a sign. He flaunted it or some such, showed it off to his peers, who knows?

B ) Someone got concerned. This doesn't mean it was a parent or an outsider, it was most likely someone close to him. And if someone who knows him gets concerned enough to report it, then I think they have more justification to make the call than we do.

 

I feel like if it was reported, then that's reason enough to be concerned.

 

I agree with Springheel. This sends a message that this sort of thing isn't appropriate, and I agree, it isn't. Thought crime? There are limits. Although it's a slippery slope, and a blurred line, I feel like games like Postal and Manhunt should be banned. That doesn't mean I feel like games like GTA should be banned or God of War. What separates them? Hell if I should know. The former just seems disturbing as hell and wrong as well as sadistic and twisted.

 

I think making such a map screams poor sense of judgement in this day and age. It was a stupid thing to do and I feel like he should have known better. I don't feel like expulsion is unjustified or surprising, but expected. He needs to take responsability for his actions and realize that this sort of thing isn't exactly socially acceptible.

 

They aren't throwing him in jail, mandating counseling, and assigning him a probation officer. That would be going too far, but I don't believe that expulsion is that unreasonable. Sure it's harsh. But I wouldn't call it a shocking punishment given the shadow of Virginia Tech.

Edited May 3, 2007 by Ombrenuit

[sparhawk]

B ) Someone got concerned. This doesn't mean it was a parent or an outsider, it was most likely someone close to him. And if someone who knows him gets concerned enough to report it, then I think they have more justification to make the call than we do.

 

Your argument is quite flawed. You are implicitly assuming that this somebody who might have reported it indeed got concerened, but that doesn't need to be the case. It can just as well be that this guy was one of the kind of attention seekers who noticed that this might be THE chance to get attention. The guy showed him this map and just "Look, doesn't it look cool?" and the other guy thought "Hey! the other guy also made such a map, and he turned crazy, so if I report this guy everybody will also think that he is of the same kind and I'm the hero of the day." Maybe not neccessary exactly like this, but you get the drift.

 

In fact, after such incidences, there are always a lot of reports from people who thought they have seen something, from people who didn't see anything but reported nevertheless, and from people claiming to planning the same themselve. You are totally ignoring all this different lurker type guys. You can not deduce from this map, that there was ANYTHING about it, apart from the fact that the map exists.

[OrbWeaver]

The point is, he did something to get it noticed and someone was concerned enough to report it.

 

From what I read, the map was played online with a number of his classmates, and a parent reported it. The rest of your argument that there was legitimate cause for concern is simply speculation, and in light of the level of knowledge most parents have of computer games, pretty weak.

 

B ) Someone got concerned. This doesn't mean it was a parent or an outsider,

 

Bzzzt.

 

I feel like if it was reported, then that's reason enough to be concerned.

 

That pretty much sums up your attitude really. It must be nice to be told what to think by the media, saves the effort of having to do it for yourself.

 

I agree with Springheel. This sends a message that this sort of thing isn't appropriate, and I agree, it isn't.

 

IF it was the case that the map contained specific individual teachers and/or pupils that you could shoot then I agree with him as well. If it was generic mosters or an empty multiplayer map, then this does not apply, because it is just a location without any simulated violence against specific individuals.

 

Thought crime? There are limits. The former just seems disturbing as hell and wrong as well as sadistic and twisted.

 

Tough. Freedom of speech includes the freedom to express ideas that you find sick or twisted, not just those you agree with. Freedom of speech may not apply where there is an actual danger involved, but this does not appear to be such a case on the face of it.

 

He needs to take responsability for his actions and realize that this sort of thing isn't exactly socially acceptible.

 

Ah yes, the facile "responsibility for your actions" screed which can justify any amount of authoritarian conformist crap that otherwise lacks justification.

 

They aren't throwing him in jail, mandating counseling, and assigning him a probation officer.

 

From what I heard they sent him to an "Alternative Education Center" which is pretty similar in real terms.

[Order of the Hammer Bureaucrat]

Thought crime? There are limits. Although it's a slippery slope, and a blurred line, I feel like games like Postal and Manhunt should be banned. That doesn't mean I feel like games like GTA should be banned or God of War.

There is such a thing as freedom of speech and I'm in favour of it. I was jarred and shaken when I shot guards in Thief for the first time, because they looked cinematically realistic, because as I already posted I played less realistic games prior. Does that mean I should have lobbied to ban Thief? Now I am more discriminating with computer game realism, and everything looks like a pathetic patch of polygons, and I have absolutely no reaction to gibs. (gibs stands for giblets - the bloody entrails - and I love giblets on rice in my local chinese restaurant, Kom Jug Yuen - much better than their beef)

 

He needs to take responsability for his actions and realize that this sort of thing isn't exactly socially acceptible.

Yes, and it wasn't socially acceptable for a negro to drink from a white man's water fountain.. I'm not elaborating here.

[Domarius]

I agree with the school expelling him if it was an FPS map with teachers and pupil characters that you could shoot.

This is the assumption you're running with at the moment.

 

Don't you think if that was in his "game", they would have made a big deal about it?? There would be screenshots and graphic descriptions, you bet.

 

Nothing in the news article convinced me it was anything more than a quake map of the school layout to death match in.

[Ishtvan]

Sure it's harsh. But I wouldn't call it a shocking punishment given the shadow of Virginia Tech.

That's exactly the problem. People's lives should not be seriously modified against their will because of a kneejerk reaction to an unrelated event. It happens far too often in politics that leaders aren't planning things out rationally, they're just reacting to a single freak event in a way they think will pacify their constituents, who are freaking out. you can find examples of that everywhere.

[Ombrenuit]

Well, I have to say that you guys I think brought me back down to reality. You're right, this sort of thing is probably going to follow this kid for the rest of his life--being transfered into a school for the mentally disturbed etc. He was a high school senior, and I won't be surprised if somehow this affects his college acceptances or even his graduation. What I also hate is how the media ignores his side of the story. Can't he at least defend himself?

 

Evidently the map was a counter-strike map. So what about the map de_office? What if that's based off a real office? Does that mean we should send that author to counseling too?

 

The student wasn't arrested or charged with any crimes, but police were called in to search his home, where they found five swords.

 

Oh no. Who collects swords but murderers? Evidently it was the swords, which are apparently decorative, that led to his removal.

 

And as for the banning of games...well I don't necessarily have to play them if I believe they are too much, I suppose.

 

Police also ordered the student to erase the game and maps from his computer.

 

I suppose they don't intend to pay him back for the game's cost either.

 

Officials also weighed whether there might be a connection between the swords found in the boy's room, and weapons depicted in the game itself, Simpson said. You see these big, dark hands with knives in them in the boy modified Counterstrike version.

 

I'm glad we have police officers making psychological connections--rather than psychologists with a pHd. But ironically:

 

I also want to mention that the student did not posess a modified version of the game like this article says and the article on abcnews says so.

 

I can only imagine Chief Wiggam trying to figure out how to play the game in his investigation, "Okay...so how do I move, AH DAMN! A GUN!...okay...wait what did he just say? 'You r a n00b' Oh dear god! Dear god. Lordy. I better call that in, I bet it's Chinese for guilty! Rick, get me the phone!"

Edited May 4, 2007 by Ombrenuit

[sparhawk]

I bet the guy was not particularly rich. Otherwise he would have gotten a laywer and the lawyer would have told the police what they can do with the order of removing the map AND the game from his computer. Since when can the police request that a game, that can be officially bought in any shop, be removed from my computer? Only a judge could issue such an order, and I doubt that this would stand up to a jury either.

[OrbWeaver]

4 joeschmo - Apr 30, 01:11 pm

 

we live in a very different world after 9-11.. I know that the Asian community wants their children to be safe and secure in school just like all other ethnic parents whether white, brown, black, green purple… I dont care what race the child who downloaded the material was,, the other children in the school has to be safe.. Im not for violation of rights as Im not for this city becoming a nightmare like in W Va.. We hav lost some rights,, its tru,,, but we live in a different world now.. A world where your neighbor could be a terorist of a sex offender… If your child gets killed or assaulted ,, would nt you have wanted every lead, threat, suspicion to be followed up on… ????

 

I think this just about sums up the level of retardedness we are looking at. In my opinion anyone who parrots this "The world changed after 9-11" bullshit should be instantly culled from the human race in the interest of the future of the species.

[Order of the Hammer Bureaucrat]

For anyone who remembers 'Children of Men' I've been having dreams at night before and after seeing that movie about the same kind of police-state in North America after the oil runs out.

[Ishtvan]

The world has changed argument is pretty retarded.

 

Clearly the constitutional founders could not conceptualize of the idea that there may be an enemy who attacks on homeland soil, like say the war they just fought before drafting the constitution. Maybe the world changed when plagued corpses were catapulted into cities 700 years ago. Constitutional democracy has clearly been insufficient since the 1300's in that case.