Bioshock stuff

[Unstoppable]

I heard a lil birdy chrip the other day from the Gamespot apple tree. He said that Microsoft was planning a 199$ core 360 system, 299$ premium 360 system, and a 399$ for the 360 elite.

 

He was just singing though so we'll just have to wait and see if it's true.

 

Anyway the game will run fine don't worry abou the sound card thing. If you got Direct x 9 or 10 and you have sound you can play the game i'm sure.

[Freakboy]

Yes, I know that many motherboards support this, but it's still in hardware. How am I, the average user, to be sure that this feature is universal in motherboards, and therefore don't have to run out and buy a sound card (read: Creative POS)? I'm bothered when mainstream trash is pulling the Creative card, but I've always trusted Levine as a game designer. I feel almost as though he's betrayed my trust and slept with that slut, Creative.

 

You're reading way too into the word card. To prove my case, I will now show the system requirements of a game that came out in 1995.

 

Stonekeep

SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS

MINIMUM PC REQUIREMENTS

8MB RAM

1MB SVGA video card

2X CD-ROM

Sound Blaster or compatible sound card

Mouse

Keyboard

 

Notice the word card there? Yea...

 

Furthermore, I believe X-Fi is recommended simply because of HD-sound stuffs. I don't know if any other cards can pump out HD.. but this just a guess.

Edited July 25, 2007 by Freakboy

[Nyarlathotep]

Alright, fine, let's play this game.

 

Half-Life 2:

• Minimum: 1.2 GHz Processor, 256MB RAM, DirectX 7 level graphics card, Windows 2000/XP/ME/98, Mouse, Keyboard, Internet Connection
  
• Recommended: 2.4 GHz Processor, 512MB RAM, DirectX 9 level graphics card, Windows 2000/XP, Mouse, Keyboard, Internet Connection
  

What? No mention of a sound card? Gasp! Seems to me that would be pretty important... Except it isn't. Bioshock mentioning a sound card in its basic requirements is bullshit, and you and Crispy both know that. Hell, you both practically came out and said it directly! The X-Fi does produce better sound quality--if you spent the $200+ for a sound system good enough to make a difference. Most people, me included, have speakers that muddle any gains over software sound that the X-Fi could make. If the X-Fi could provide a true enhancement to the Bioshock experience, without the super sound rig to match it, I could let it pass.

 

My problem is that as a sound accelerator, the X-Fi is by and large a complete waste of space. There's not much acceleration here, folks, and unlike the Vortex 1/2, there's little to be had in the way of improving the experience. Move along. The fact that the developers saw fit to recommend the X-Fi tells me that they're getting money from the dirty whores at Creative. That whole sound card mess is Creative's dealings, I'm certain of it. Who wants to bet that there's going to be a "Sounds best on X-Fi" or equivalent bullshit video playing whenever you start Bioshock?

 

(I will admit that someone could make the case for the ram on the high-end models of X-Fi. It is however, a fairly weak case.)

[Crispy]

Bioshock mentioning a sound card in its basic requirements is bullshit, and you and Crispy both know that. Hell, you both practically came out and said it directly!

Please stop putting words in my mouth.

 

I think it's completely reasonable to list a sound card under "requirements". Okay, so HL2 didn't, so what? Maybe it slipped the mind of the person at Valve who put together the requirements list. Maybe sound is more important to Bioshock than it is to HL2 (given that Bioshock is a spiritual successor to SS2, I'd call this likely - you really don't get the full experience in SS2 without sound.)

 

At this point you're just shifting your argument to support your previous statements, and your stated dislike of Creative.

[Nyarlathotep]

Please stop putting words in my mouth.

But it's so fun!

 

I think it's completely reasonable to list a sound card under "requirements". Okay, so HL2 didn't, so what? Maybe it slipped the mind of the person at Valve who put together the requirements list. Maybe sound is more important to Bioshock than it is to HL2 (given that Bioshock is a spiritual successor to SS2, I'd call this likely - you really don't get the full experience in SS2 without sound.)

I wish I knew where I could find the original requirements for Doom 3, pre-Creative.

 

At this point you're just shifting your argument to support your previous statements, and your stated dislike of Creative.

No, the whole point of the sound card issue was to support my argument about Creative making a buy-in, not the other way around. It just got a bit out of hand, that's all.

[Unstoppable]

Well this is my thread and i'm the deputee. I can't shoot the sheriff Modetwo but I will shoot this argument down. The winner is Unstoppable. He is all knowing taffer and he says Bioshock has a good shot at Game of the Year.

[Unstoppable]

Just got a good news alert for you guys. I read on Gamespot forums but lost the thread. Basically PC Gamer UK says it's one of the best games ever made. Also there's a pivotal moment in the game that was very shocking and cool. You know one of those gaming moments that never goes away and stays with you in your fond memories. Like playing Thief: The Dark Project and hearing the A.I. talk with themselves.

[Domarius]

That's a big claim - the game sure has a lot to live up to now

[Unstoppable]

Demo is out on the Xbox marketplace and there will be a PC demo soon. This I have not seen confirmed yet so don't hold your breath.

[SplaTtzZ]

Ok I played the demo on 360 and, im sorry to say, I wasn't really impressed.

 

Graphics are fantastic; the textures and art direction for this game I thought were outstanding. The posters and wall hangings and fixtures they all have a distinct 1930-50's feel about them. They quite captured the essence of the Art Deco movement in the environments for this game. They pushed the Unreal tech pretty far; everything looks crisp and clear. The models are also quite realistic; everything from radios to Enemy NPCs.

 

However, one of the major gripes I had was with the UI. Puritans who had alot to say about Thief 3 will also have alot to say about Bioshock. The first lever I touched had the old flashing Atomic Brown/Gold colour to highlight it; it's not as bad as blue, but when you're in an elevator with only one lever inside it I don't see the point. And when you fight an Enemy a giant semicircle appears over your crosshair (and it is huge) to tell you how much life he has left.

 

There is also no inventory. To me this is cardinal sin; I don't see how you can make a spiritual successor to System Shock 2 and then have no inventory system. it might not seem like a big deal, but the fact that you were limited to what you could carry in SS2 was a big player in creating tension for that game. In Bioshock you only carry around Instant-Use Health Packs and hypos that regenerate Mana or Eve or whatever they call it. As for guns I saw about 6 or so, no doubt you can carry them all at once.

 

And then to top it all off: Enemies have respawn points. There are actual areas where a (presumably) infinite number of enemies come at you. I say presumably because I didn't hang around, I was stuck in a little area and enemies would drop down from a set of broken stairs I couldn't go up; and i had to kill them Arena style until a door opened.

 

These are just first impressions of a demo, however I don't believe this game should get a GOTY award (no doubt it will though), from what i saw it is nothing more than a generic FPS; as unalike to System Shock 2 as Deus Ex is unalike to Serious Sam.

Edited August 14, 2007 by SplaTtzZ

[Crispy]

And then to top it all off: Enemies have respawn points. There are actual areas where a (presumably) infinite number of enemies come at you. I say presumably because I didn't hang around, I was stuck in a little area and enemies would drop down from a set of broken stairs I couldn't go up; and i had to kill them Arena style until a door opened.

System Shock 2 had respawning enemies. Though it did make it hard to tell where exactly the respawn points were.

[demagogue]

Well, nothing you mentioned, SplaTtzZ, is really news.

Reactions seem to be more pro than con, so it's interesting to read a different perspective, at least.

 

However, one of the major gripes I had was with the UI.

 

Remember this is the console version. PC version isn't supposed to be as bad, considering it had an independent team working on the interface. The object-glint is optional, as is the in-game interface instructions.

The only thing irking me, like you, is the big semi-circle, which I think stays. SS2 had a simple red bar. Watching the videos, like with SS2, it admittedly looks more useful than not, so I think it's fine there's a bar; I just wish it weren't as big. But all things considered, I can live with it. The style (putting aside the size) is at least appropriate (compared to the computer-generated look in SS2).

 

There is also no inventory. To me this is cardinal sin;

 

This is old news, and raised some hell when it came out. Levine tried to sell us on the point that you still get a lot of the functionality of stuff-hoarding and slot-limits in some cases, just without a unified, dedicated screen ... which I guess you either buy or not.

Anyway, it's part of the whole "it's a shooter first" philosophy.

Once you're on board with that, it's not as bad as it first sounds.

Thief didn't have an inventory screen.

 

And then to top it all off: Enemies have respawn points.

 

Yeah, like Crispy said, this is right out of the SS2 playbook.

Similarly with supplies on bodies statistically sensitive to the player's needs.

A dev posted on this once that they really tried hard to get these into the game to keep a good flow but it not become obvious or distracting, not heavy-handed looking. They spent forever tweaking it to perfection. Like with the no inventory screen, I think once you get over the initial idea that it's done at all, it's nice to know that they put some thought into doing it well, and not just haphazardly. I tend to like it because it increases replayability ... basically it's the safety-net for taking out scripted fights, and I find it better than the alternative.

 

nothing more than a generic FPS

 

As advertised from the beginning. You can say you don't like the genre of FPSs as much as FPS-RPG hybrids, but it's not so fair to bait-and-switch and conflate genre choice with what's good or bad gameplay within a genre.

Still, I was interested in your observations, so thanks for posting that.

Edited August 14, 2007 by demagogue

[SplaTtzZ]

True, you'll have to forgive my post somewhat as I focus alot on the negatives. Demagogue is right, in terms of an FPS experience like any other FPS Bioshock doesn't have any great disadvantage. It has fresh scenery and enemies and it puts me in mind somewhat of Doom 3; but with a little more depth in terms of gameplay and options. I must also mention that I didn't follow any of the news about this game; consequently I was quite shocked to see that there was no inventory system, something that means a big deal in FPS/RPG hybrids as it limits exactly what weapons and items etc. that you can carry.

 

However the many numerous sites covering the development of this game hark on it being a "Spiritual Succesor" to SS2; which I do have problem with. I have not played SS2 in years, I would like to play it now if I could get it to work on my computer, but from the get-go SS2 offered you choice as to which character class you wanted; this in turn offered many different modes of playing. As far as i can see this level of choice is nowhere near evident in Bioshock. Correct me if I'm wrong also; but I can't recall there being sort of Arena pit fights with infinite spawning AI in SS2. Respawning AI i'm ok with, up to a point.

 

But the biggest problem I have with Bioshock being a successor is it simply fails to achieve the level of atmosphere and tension that SS2 had. I recall watching and waiting for hours in a flooded corridor with rooms on either side; trying to figure out from which room the moaning noise i could hear was coming from. Or inching my way carefully through the labratories armed only with a wrench to ward of numerous science-experiments-gone-wrong. Or the sheer horror when I realise that my handgun has broke for the 50th time and should have chosen to join the goddamn airforce instead of becoming a shithead marine.

Perhaps it was because I was younger when I played SS2; but when I hit up Bioshock there was no tension at all except for the old lightbulb suddenly exploding when you walk by it trick. I blitzed through each level throwing lightning everywhere and bashing guys with my wrench; which is hardly what i recall doing in SS2.

 

It's fine that the dev's wanted to make an Art Deco period FPS, but in my opinion that is not a spiritual "successor" to SS2, in much the same way that i don't believe Deus Ex 2 was a successor to Deus Ex. The devolution from an FPS/RPG hybrid aside; the game simply lacks the punch that I remember SS2 having. Bioshock is a good FPS, and I will buy it because i don't have any problem with the genre, but from what I've seen I don't think it is worthy of a Game of the Year title and all the fanboy-ism that the review sites gush over it. Alot of FPS's have customisable weapons, Undying had the whole 'left hand=magic; right hand=gun' thing, Deus Ex had hacking and whatnot and if you want to Art Deco environments play Thief 2. Bioshock doesn't really differentiate itself from any other FPS in the market in the way that SS2, Thief and Deus Ex did.

 

Again, this is quite premature of me to review a game based on a demo; which as Demagogue rightly points out is on a console. It may also be true that having played SS2 so long ago and not remembering half of it that i may be exagerating its qualities, and thus am not qualified to say anything on this. I will definitely grab the PC demo to check out how well it performs versus the console version, it may be that many of the problems i had with it will be ironed out in that demo or even the full game. Maybe you guys will have a different perspective on the demo; it's certainly worth at least downloading it and checking it out.

Edited August 14, 2007 by SplaTtzZ

[sparhawk]

Concerning the respawning AI, I seem to remember reading a preview in some gamemag, where they said that there are points where you have to do certain things, because the AI is spawning as long as you didn't fullfill the objective thst switches it off. Not 100% sure though, because it was some time ago and I didn't pay so much attention to it.

[Unstoppable]

Bioshock street date has been broken !

http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3389

 

Oh and say hello to my little friend. Me and him will be running Bioshock from now on.

 

Windows Vista 32-Bit Home Premium (QTY=1, Price=$111.99)

DVD-ROM LITE-ON|DH-16D2P-04 BK % - OEM (Qty=1, Price=$16.99)

HD 320G|WD 7K 16M SATA2 WD3200AAKS - OEM (Qty=1, Price=$74.99)

CASE NZXT|LEXA BLACKLINE BK RT - Retail (Qty=1, Price=$99.99)

MB GIGABYTE GA-P35-S3L P35+ICH9 RTL - Retail (Qty=1, Price=$104.99)

VGA EVGA 640-P2-N821-AR 8800GTS R - Retail (Qty=1, Price=$379.99)

MEM 512Mx2|CRUCIAL BL2KIT6464AA804 - Retail (Qty=1, Price=$69.99)

PSU ROSEWILL|RP600V2-S-SL 600W RT - Retail (Qty=1, Price=$74.99)

CPU INTEL|C2Q Q6600 2.40G 775 8M R - Retail (Qty=1, Price=$294.99)

MEM 1Gx2|CRUCIAL BL2KIT12864AA804 R - Retail (Qty=1, Price=$109.99)

DVD_BURN LG|GSA-H54NK RAM % - OEM (Qty=1, Price=$27.99)

CPU THERMPASTE|ARCTIC SILVER5 3.5G% - OEM (Qty=1, Price=$5.99)

CPUCOOLER|ARCTIC P4|ACFZ7-PRO R - Retail (Qty=1, Price=$34.99)

Westinghouse 19inch LCD Monitor (Free already own one) $0

Razor Deathadder mouse (Free already own one) $0

 

Extended Warranty Fee: $0

Subtotal: $1407.87

TAX: $0

Shipping and Handling Charge**: $43.92

Total: $1451.79

 

SAY HELLO TO MY LIL FRIEND.

Edited August 15, 2007 by Unstoppable

[sparhawk]

Quite a nice setup. I like the case of that beast. I'm currently evaluating hardware, because I also want to build a new machine. Since I can't afford the complete machine at once, I have to buy it in bits and pieces, but I tend to get an AMD CPU. The X2 6000+ is slightly slower then your CPU, but it costs much less (almost half of it). I think I will also wait a bit, to see if newer CPUs are coming, because they are already announced and then I will see if there are some which are just as fast but taking less power. I read an article on Toms Hardware about power consumption and there were some good hints what to look out for without sacrificing performance.

[Unstoppable]

Thanks. If I lived near you, you could come over and play Bioshock. Too bad i'm in miami, fl, USA though =P.

[Unstoppable]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

You guys might of remembered me. Posted a couple days about plunking down 1,450$ for a q6600 with an 8800gts 3gb ram and all the bells and whistles.

 

Well I am happy to report I am now writing it from that very computer! Man o man it was blood, sweat, and tears literally! First off the keys to open the case were locked inside the case! I had to stick my hand through the power supply and open the cardboard box. Then I had to get the keys out somehow. The kicker? The box was at the front of the case. Needless to say it was a bloody opening!

 

Next I forgot to connect the ATX 12 V connector. Also the case offers a screwless design and poor instructions. Fiddling with it for a few hours and I was finally through!

 

Finally the dvd drivers were not being detected properly. I switched position and cable alignments and they were fined. Vista installed fast. However to my dismay it took me another few hours to get the modem drivers. What I did was install the xp drivers for the alcatel speedtouch usb using compability mode. Man o man I started at like 2-3pm and finished at 1 am in the morning. Hey it's worth it though. Bioshock on Tuesday running on full baby!. Can't wait!

[Crispy]

Man o man it was blood, sweat, and tears literally!

That's to be expected - home-built computers always require a blood sacrifice before they will operate. All of mine did, anyway.

[woah]

I think it's interesting to note that this game has attained the highest average score out of any PC game according to www.metacritic.com ( http://www.metacritic.com/games/pc/ ). Of course, all of the reviews aren't in yet.

 

Still not sure if I'll buy it, though. I don't really feel like playing (or buying) any games at the moment.

[Unstoppable]

Gamerankings.com also has listed it as very high. It has potential to top Zelda: Ocarina of Time as the #1 all time game .

[Unstoppable]

Bioshock demo out now .

[Crispy]

PC demo? Awesome. There goes my evening when I get home.

[Unstoppable]

Bioshock soundtrack .

http://www.2kgames.com/cultofrapture/home.html

[OrbWeaver]

Bioshock DRM:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/08/24/dr...hock_drm_eased/

 

...SecuROM, PC activation problems...

 

Game over.