Models always solid?

[Baddcog]

that's why I mentioned in the model tweaks thread.

 

 

--EDIT---

 

little prob with no_draw I've noticed. it still has physic, if you drp somethng on top of a no_draw suface it floats like something is there.

 

--edit-edit--

 

seems that the no_draw mtr has nonsolid defined. I don't know where the prob lies. Do we need to just do collision models for anything with no_draw?

 

// nodraw is used for surfaces that don't have any automatic
// interaction with anything
textures/common/nodraw
{
qer_editorimage textures/common/nodraw.tga
nonsolid
noshadows
}

[angua]

It seems that models are always solid, regardless what is specified in the shader. This is a problem with some of the small bushes also for example, you have to set them to "solid" "0" to make them nonsolid, otherwise you are lifted up as soon as you step on them.

 

This seems to come from the entitydef of func_static (located in func.def), which sets them to "solid" "1".

[Ishtvan]

I guess you have to set the entity "solid" "0" then.

 

@Badcogg, were you trying to make part of the model solid and the rest not? In that case it won't work to set the whole entity nonsolid. I think Dram ran into the same problem when he was doing tree-leaves, and I'm not sure we ever came up with a solution. On the other hand, I remember BT saying he had made separate collision models on func_statics (presumably by using the nonsolid keyword and then making an invisible but solid collision mesh). I'm not sure if he meant a collision model for all physics or just for monster/playerclip though.

[Baddcog]

Well, recently Springheel and I have been using no_draw as a skin option.

Spring on the wheelbarrows to add piles of stuff (dirt, straw) and me in some pots so they can have dirt for plants or be empty. Just alot more useability with skins than without new models.

 

I dropped bucket in an empty pot and it landed on top of where the dirt polys are (but this model used no_draw for no dirt)

the no_dirt mtr has nonslid set to it, so I thought if the model used no_draw the physics would match. Sounds like they won't.

 

Unfortunately if we add a collision model then the dirt will probably never be solid allowing things to pass thru. Which is worse?

Floating objects or objects tha fall thru dirt and straw?

 

I guess the only GOOD solution is to have 2 models. One with dirt, one without. Kindof kills the skin option to a degree. Although the wheelbarrw with dirt can have a skin withstraw instead. And tyhe pots can still use a variety of materials for the pot. But still 2 models each. In the case of the pots there are 3 sizes since physics can't be scaled. So with/without dirt makes 6 pot models.

 

Bugger.

[Ishtvan]

Hmm, I don't think whatever process D3 uses to get the collision model from the model file takes skins into account. Skins can be changed during runtime, and the collision model is only loaded once when the model is loaded (AFAIK). I don't know how exactly the modeling process works, but the collision is determined by the materials that end up in the model file, and apparently isn't effected by skins.

 

For example, in /models/darkmod/weapons/ropearrow_collision.ase :

*MATERIAL_LIST {
*MATERIAL_COUNT 1
*MATERIAL 0 {
	*MATERIAL_NAME "balken.jpg"
// ...
	*MAP_DIFFUSE {
		*MAP_NAME "balken.jpg"
		*MAP_CLASS "Bitmap"
		*MAP_SUBNO 1
		*MAP_AMOUNT 1.0000
		*BITMAP "//base/textures/common/collision"

The textures/common/collision is what determines if the thing collides, and apparently that's set in the modeling program (before it's exported to ASE I guess).

 

I don't think this will work either, but: Have you already tried doing it the other way around and having a nonsolid dirt part in the model file by default, and then setting "solid" on the material used when dirt is present?

[Crispy]

In the worst case scenario perhaps you'll just have to make separate "wheelbarrow" and "wheelbarrow dirt" models. i.e. If you want dirt, add another model for it. Maybe line up the origins so that it's really easy to place.

[greebo]

Yes, I think having two models is the only easy option here. It's not ideal, but the wheelbarrow takes just 30 kB in size, so it wouldn't even hurt if we had 10 of those.

[Springheel]

Have you already tried doing it the other way around and having a nonsolid dirt part in the model file by default, and then setting "solid" on the material used when dirt is present?

 

Nodraw skins don't work the other way around. You can have a default shader turn to nodraw, but if it starts out as nodraw, it won't change to anything else. As far as I can figure out, it's because D3 doesn't render the nodraw part at all, so there's nothing there to skin.

 

But something doesn't add up. I'll have to run some tests.

[Springheel]

I've confirmed that nodraw skins still act as if they're there, physically. I don't understand why (since there's a nodraw and nodrawsolid, you'd assume the nodraw would be nonsolid), but that's highly annoying.

 

I guess I'll have to separate the models.

[Baddcog]

@Ishtvan,

 

I actually type in the shader name ( //base/shadername ) with notepad in the ase files after I export them. 3dsMax leaves file names to textures, doesn't read mtr files. So I'll have c:/blahblah/.... to manually correct. I think LightWave actually lets you put the shader name in the file though.

 

@Springheel.

For the wheel barrows I think 2 models might be best. We could have wheelbarrow and wheelbarrow_full (?), wheel barrow full could just use skins. That way authors don't have to place/align the piles. We don't have to decide if the piles go with barrows under tools so they are easy to find...

 

As for my pots I was thinking of making one round dirt piece. It could be resized by author to fit any pot vase since thre are so many sizes. It doesn't really need physics I guess. don't know, this is one that actually sucks, don't really want to make a new sizeof dirt for every pot. Don't want to double number of pots. But don't want stuff to be dropped thru dirt either.

Then again, I guess authors could just make a quick dirt patch, or I could make some and have them as prefabs?

[Ishtvan]

Yeah, prefabs of dirt and pot would work for that purpose. Although if you tried to make the pot moveable, it wouldn't work. I guess a moveable pot can't have that detailed a collision model anyway though, so it could just encompass the whole pot.

[Springheel]

Then again, I guess authors could just make a quick dirt patch,

 

Yeah, I think patches might work better, rather than making a whole bunch of dirt models.

 

For the wheel barrows I think 2 models might be best. We could have wheelbarrow and wheelbarrow_full (?),

 

Yeah, I agree.