Need animation list

[Domarius]

Next weekend I'm going to film more reference footage, is there some list of anims we will want, not just urgent ones but future ones?

 

I already looked at this thread for ideas.

http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=5342

 

I've made up quite a list myself. The focus is on female reference this time, as I've got one of my female friends to act this stuff out but she gave me some good ideas for the male characters too, which I'll get someone to act out as well.

 

I have a table of characters, and animations for each.

 

CHARACTERS

Female Guard

Female Guard with sword out

Noblewoman

Nobleman

Upperclass female servant

Upperclass male servant

Common female (peasant, servant, civilian)

Female holding torch

Big matronly servant woman

 

ANIMS FOR EACH (some will be redundant, there will be overlap.)

Walk

Search

Run

Cower

Take damage

Death

Look under

Give up search

Startled

Flee

Look around search

Point alert

Frustration

Bored

Knock out

Greet

 

GENERAL ANIMS (some generic, some specific to characters, also just notes. Eg the apron one is an idea for the big servant woman "idle" anim)

Carrying tray (servants)

Hold skirt and walk up steps (females)

Flirt (female upper class servant greet male, no lesser than guard though)

Conversations

Shrug

Drunk idle

Drunk walk

Blind weapon swinging

Restless sleeping

Kneel down and examine

Kneel down and examine, holding a torch

Writing at desk

Admiring something

Take

Bored

Shiver

Cast spell

Fluff out dust from apron (big servant woman)

Fix hair (noblewoman, upperclass female servant)

Bluster eg. "Don't you know who I am??" (nobleman cower)

[greebo]

That's quite some variety - hopefully this is not too much to handle, as it sounds like a lot of work?

 

Anyway, I'd like to add these:

 

- Use (this is different to the "take" anim you already have in your list)

- Use and rotate (like a door handle)

- An anim to be played at the end of the search, like "hmm, I wonder..." and the hands on one's hips (if you get the picture)

- Kneel down while holding a sword (or something else in the right hand)

- Surprise anim (females) ? Not sure about that, the male version probably works too here.

 

There is already a use anim by Nisstagm, but I don't know if the new rig has rendered it unusable or anything.

 

I'm not sure whether I can actually make use of the "Hold skirt and walk up steps (females)" anim, because the code probably won't know it in time when the AI is walking up a single step or a whole stair and it is already too late to fire the anim. Not to stop you from recording anything, just saying.

[Tels]

Here are some I like to see (from GuildWars):

 

* shake fist angrily

* taunt

 

Both used when you were spotted.

 

Also, how about "laugh"? Or is the world to grim for characters to ever laugh?

[Springheel]

A lot of things on that list won't be used in the forseeable future (female guards and big matronly women are not even on my "to get to eventually" list.) And the idea of having specific animations for each character type is also highly unlikely (the difference between an upperclass female servant and a peasant female is negligable, assuming we even use different models for them, which is unlikely). We'll be lucky to have a complete set of animations that are shared among all characters of the same gender by the end of this year--that should be our focus.

 

It might be more useful to check with the other animators to see what reference material they would want, or whether they would use it at all. If it's just for you, you can film whatever you want.

 

I'll do up a new master animation list in the meantime.

[Domarius]

I should have mentioned - this is like NH's vocal set - actually doing it is the hassle, not so much how much material you record. So too much is better than not enough. It's covering for the future too, after the initial release. I imagine people would want to feel like they are in a living world, not just a universe of guards and noble people So yes there's a lot of variety. Eg. Back in those times, the upper class servants are for the noble people, they know how to walk, they have expensive clothes etc. Regular servants (eg. a yard servants ) are just common people plodding around with crappy clothes.

 

Also the reason I'm doing this now instead of animating is because my friend will be moving to the UK in about a month, so I'm just doing it while I've got the chance.

 

@greebo - a lot of the ones you suggested I already have covered I did consider a variety of "interact" anims but the I felt the differences were so minimal that it didn't need reference footage - twisting a door knob isn't that much difference than the generic reach out anim we're supposed to be using to cover all situations (handing something to someone else, picking something up off a table, opening a door, etc)

 

@SH - thanks, I really want to be sure I cover everything we actually need - I wouldn't want to film all these variety of things and come back and realise I've missed something crucial for the first release

 

@Tels - Actually I already made a shake fist anim but never put it into the game I put that in my todo list. Other taunting anims I can film myself doing any time, so we should be okay for that.

[Domarius]

Thanks Spring, I really like the new animation list (didn't want to post there cause it's a sticky). Those are all good essential anims and I like the way its layed out with the numbers and colour codes. This is exactly what we needed.

 

I don't think you need to bother making a list of anims that have been made but not been exported. I think I'm the only one with those sitting around.

[Springheel]

I don't think you need to bother making a list of anims that have been made but not been exported. I think I'm the only one with those sitting around.

 

I know both Squill and Nisstagm (?) have created animations that have yet to be exported, and there may be more. No one has really been keeping track of that for the last six or eight months.

[Domarius]

Okay well it falls to the responsibility of the individual - each of us know how many we haven't exported yet, and if a team member dissapears, making a list of the anims they haven't exported yet would be useless because we wouldn't have access to them anyway

[Springheel]

Obviously I'm not going to make a list of animations we don't have access to.

[squill]

yeah i have a few which i haven't exported yet, not that much though.

3 idles, a walk and a run.

 

All the fbx/mb files i've created are present in model_src but i forget or postpone to export which is just a small step to do

 

should i give to the walk/run/idle md5anim files a different name to avoid overriding the current animations?

[greebo]

should i give to the walk/run/idle md5anim files a different name to avoid overriding the current animations?

If the new walk/run/idle anims are better than the old anims, then I'd say we can safely ditch the old ones (we can always go back in SVN history if we decided to use the old ones instead). If they are meant as variation additional to the existing ones, then they should get a new number suffix (e.g. idle2).

[squill]

If the new walk/run/idle anims are better than the old anims, then I'd say we can safely ditch the old ones (we can always go back in SVN history if we decided to use the old ones instead). If they are meant as variation additional to the existing ones, then they should get a new number suffix (e.g. idle2).

 

i've synched the new walk, run, idle and the other 2 idle animations (arm wipe, look left) which i hadn't exported yet on svn.

 

i'm still tweaking the run speed, it's a bit faster then the old one. But i can easily change the speed with the position of the origin joint.

[greebo]

I'll try to get the anims into the citywatch entityDef later today so that I can check it out. I'm looking forward to seeing the new anims.

[greebo]

I added the LookLeft and ArmWipe anims to the citywatch. The definitions for idle, walk and run were already there, so I just had to change the footstep framecommands to match the new anims.

 

The walk anim looks very good, the run anim is also quite ok, although it looks a tiny tad funny from the front view (when they run directly to you). Overall nice work, squill!

 

The citywatch already knows how to play the new idle anims (lookleft, armwipe), so if you're watching a standing, idling guard a bit, you should see him playing the anim.

 

The changes are not yet in SVN, because I can't connect to the server at this moment, but watch out for the E-Mail notifications.

[Springheel]

Something seems a little odd with the new idle animations. At some point, the guard plays an animation that puts his left foot out in front, and he then continues to stand like that, with his arms hanging almost motionless while he sways side to side. Other idle animations play, causing his foot to snap back to the original idle position (which has the left foot slightly behind the right). Is this a new idle variation?

[Domarius]

Hm, squill, just check the feet positions in all the different idle anims are identical.

 

Also check the origin bone isn't moving or something too.

[Springheel]

After watching it again, it kind of looks like the 'turn left' animation is only going back to the idle animation on the torso, not the legs. Or something.

 

Oh, one other thing while I'm thinking of it. At the moment, it seems like some/all animations are not affecting the head channel, meaning it continues to look around randomly. Generally that's ok, but there are some animations that really should take priority. The cough, for instance, looks pretty silly when the AI puts his hand up to cough into but he's actually looking up in the air as he's coughing.

 

Is that something that can be set on an animation-by-animation basis?

[squill]

thx Greebo

 

Is this a new idle variation?

yeah i've created a new idle pose. I know some idles are using the old pose but i'm working on that.

Idle goes very subtle from side to side with his legs next to each other. The new idle (idle 2 in def file) has a more noticeable swing, body/arm movement and has his weight more on his right leg and left foot put in front.

 

Idle 2, arm wipe and look left both have the same foot positions. What happens now after finishing lookleft or armwipe the anim randomly goes back to idle 1 which doesn't have the same pose of course. Same goes for cough and lookout. I did noticed it sometimes plays a combination of idle 1/2 (using different channels for torso/head?).

 

What i'll do is match the idle 1 pose (and other idles) to idle 2. I'll sync the idle pose to svn.

 

The walk anim looks very good, the run anim is also quite ok, although it looks a tiny tad funny from the front view (when they run directly to you). Overall nice work, squill!

What i noticed when he runs is the torso is using the combat_idle_sword animation while only the legs use the run which does looks odd because combat_idle has little arm movement (also no sword) and is simply not a run animation.

 

I guess this can be changed by simply adding a sword to the run animation. The same thing with sword being drawn and walking.

 

Oh, one other thing while I'm thinking of it. At the moment, it seems like some/all animations are not affecting the head channel, meaning it continues to look around randomly. Generally that's ok, but there are some animations that really should take priority. The cough, for instance, looks pretty silly when the AI puts his hand up to cough into but he's actually looking up in the air as he's coughing.

 

How is this controlled..? Because the head/torso are also playing different movements when he walks overriding some body parts. The random look around overall looks fine.

[greebo]

Oh, one other thing while I'm thinking of it. At the moment, it seems like some/all animations are not affecting the head channel, meaning it continues to look around randomly. Generally that's ok, but there are some animations that really should take priority. The cough, for instance, looks pretty silly when the AI puts his hand up to cough into but he's actually looking up in the air as he's coughing.

 

Is that something that can be set on an animation-by-animation basis?

I would have to code that in. The RandomHeadTurnTask is always playing when the AI is in Idle state, independently of the anim. I need to think of a convenient way to set this up for us, but I will come up with something.

[Springheel]

yeah i've created a new idle pose. I know some idles are using the old pose but i'm working on that.

 

Hmm. If that's the case, I have to say that I'm not very fond of the new idle. The pose with the left foot significantly in front looks pretty unnatural to me. And the way the shoulders sway side to side (without any corresponding arm movement) also didn't look right. Perhaps it isn't playing on all channels or something?

 

Idle 2, arm wipe and look left both have the same foot positions. What happens now after finishing lookleft or armwipe the anim randomly goes back to idle 1 which doesn't have the same pose of course. Same goes for cough and lookout.

 

I think it's important that either--1. all our idle animations have the same foot positions, or 2. the idle 'actions' only play on the torso channel. It looks bad when the foot position snaps from one pose to the other. And if we did #1, I actually prefer the foot position that we have now.

 

I guess this can be changed by simply adding a sword to the run animation. The same thing with sword being drawn and walking.

 

Not quite sure what you mean here, but remember that all weapons will be attached using our dynamic attachment system, and should not be part of the animated mesh.

[squill]

Hmm. If that's the case, I have to say that I'm not very fond of the new idle. The pose with the left foot significantly in front looks pretty unnatural to me. And the way the shoulders sway side to side (without any corresponding arm movement) also didn't look right. Perhaps it isn't playing on all channels or something?

 

This is pretty much the version that's up now. I see i haven't animated the arms yet, only hands.

idle animations

I created the pose because the previous idle looked a bit static to me and i though about creating a more dynamic pose were his leaning more on his right foot, like you would do when waiting. I'll review the pose again tonight. I'm in the middle of getting the anim rig in maya adjusted to the idle pose which was created in Motion Builder so i will take a good look at the pose and idle anim.

 

I think it's important that either--1. all our idle animations have the same foot positions, or 2. the idle 'actions' only play on the torso channel. It looks bad when the foot position snaps from one pose to the other. And if we did #1, I actually prefer the foot position that we have now.

I'd rather go with 1. That way animators still have control over the feet like what you see in look left idle... that would mean adjusting the feet of the few idles to fit the idle pose.

 

Not quite sure what you mean here, but remember that all weapons will be attached using our dynamic attachment system, and should not be part of the animated mesh.

 

The run animation i made is without a sword in one hand but in-game it's using the combat_idle_sword animation for the upper body. I could add a sword run animation with a moving arm looking like he's carrying the sword. I the end the code controlling the upper body anim can be set to that sword run animation.

[greebo]

The run animation i made is without a sword in one hand but in-game it's using the combat_idle_sword animation for the upper body. I could add a sword run animation with a moving arm looking like he's carrying the sword. I the end the code controlling the upper body anim can be set to that sword run animation.

Yes, this is exactly what I need. Please go ahead.

[Springheel]

created the pose because the previous idle looked a bit static to me and i though about creating a more dynamic pose were his leaning more on his right foot, like you would do when waiting.

 

It's possible I'm not seeing the animation properly in-game (and I can't watch the vid at work for some reason). I'll check again. However, I think that it might be worth distinguishing between the idle animations of guards (which probably would be somewhat stiff, with legs slightly apart) vs regular civilians (which might be standing more casually).

 

The run animation i made is without a sword in one hand but in-game it's using the combat_idle_sword animation for the upper body. I could add a sword run animation with a moving arm looking like he's carrying the sword.

 

Ah, yes, that is something we need. In fact, I think that would be the default...guards would not run unless they're alert and/or chasing the player (in which case their weapon is out) or they are panicked, which is a separate animation.

 

The following are the run animations we need:

 

Run, generic (1/1)

 

Run, female (0/1)

Run, torch (1/1)

Run, defensive charge (0/1) (AI raises left arm to shield face, weapon drawn)

Run, panic (0/2) (fleeing, no items carried)

[squill]

i've added the run with the sword drawn, named it run_sword.md5anim.

so run.md5anim is just a generic run.

 

After looking again at the idle pose I agree it's looking a bit off. The left foot is standing too far ahead and the swing in the hips make it more seem like he's unbalanced or almost drunk like someone mentioned earlier.

 

I'll work on getting the idle animations fit the postions of the default idle pose. I might adjust the idle 1 pose a bit to see how it holds.

[greebo]

Ok, I will not have much time during the weekend, but hopefully I can at least look at the run_sword animation. Thanks so far - it's great to finally see some progress in the animation area.