Character Sets

[squill]

On the wiki you can now find an explanation about Character Sets in Maya.

 

Pick me!!

 

For this guide i used the forger builder model on which i created the same animation rig as the citywatch. This way it's easier to exchange and make adjustments to the animations on different characters.

[Domarius]

What if you want to animate in Motion Builder, can you export the mb to fbx or something?

[squill]

you still can use the Motionbuilder rig and workflow your using now. This only applies for the new animation rig i made in Maya.

 

I don't know if it's possible to import animations from motion builder on this rig and vice versa, you still have to use ascottk's empty citywatch rig to import your animations from MB -> Maya.

[greebo]

@squill: I can successfully import animations from MotionBuilder to the Builder Priest and the Builder Guard in Maya (using an animation I created for the citywatch), but it seems that the hammer is at the wrong position when I do that:

 

 

I assume this is somewhat intentional, as the builder is using the same sword joint position as the citywatch now? What can I do about this? The builder priest is fine.

[Springheel]

Wtf, you're animating now too greebo?? You're like, what, a quadruple threat now?

[squill]

@squill: I can successfully import animations from MotionBuilder to the Builder Priest and the Builder Guard in Maya (using an animation I created for the citywatch), but it seems that the hammer is at the wrong position when I do that:

 

 

I assume this is somewhat intentional, as the builder is using the same sword joint position as the citywatch now? What can I do about this? The builder priest is fine.

 

correct. What you could do is copy the position and rotation settings of the hammer joint in it's original place in the maya file your using to import the animation. Then you import and delete all the baked keys on the hammer joint and create a key at the first frame with the settings you copied earlier. Now it should be in the right spot again.

 

i'm seeing you using maya 8.5. I haven't tested exporting with later versions but i you do, you know it might not work?

[Springheel]

The hammer is only there as a reference, right?

[greebo]

correct. What you could do is copy the position and rotation settings of the hammer joint in it's original place in the maya file your using to import the animation. Then you import and delete all the baked keys on the hammer joint and create a key at the first frame with the settings you copied earlier. Now it should be in the right spot again.

I think I understand, let's see if I'm able to do that - I have virtually no experience with the Maya's user interface and its controls.

 

i'm seeing you using maya 8.5. I haven't tested exporting with later versions but i you do, you know it might not work?

I had to compile my own exporter module MayaImportx86.dll, which I linked against the Maya 8.5 SDK libraries. I have tested it in both Maya 7 and Maya 8.5, and it seems to work just fine. It's only for the md5anim creation anyway, so that's safe.

 

Wtf, you're animating now too greebo?? You're like, what, a quadruple threat now?

I was somewhat interested in the process, and I got hold of a copy of MotionBuilder and Maya 8.5. MotionBuilder is quite easy to use and I could create a "use" animation in about 5 minutes. Which by all means doesn't imply that it is a good animation, but enough to test the MotionBuilder-to-Doom3 workflow. I don't know anything about the technicalities or rigging/animation in Maya itself (only doing stuff in MotionBuilder), but it should suffice to create some minor animations. I don't have the experience to create something difficult like walkcycles, that's still something for people like squill.

 

It took me longer to acquire the software and compile the Maya 8.5 exporter plugin (MayaImportx86.dll) for Doom 3 than to get anim in the game, but I have a working "righthand use" animation for the citywatch and the builder priest now, which angua is already using in the HandleDoorTask.

[greebo]

Heh, there I go, running straight into problems. I've got a "different # of joints" error when trying to run an animation for the builderguard. When opening the existing builderguardmesh.md5mesh in a text editor (latest SVN), I can see 68 joints.

 

Then I import my use_righthand animation into squill's builder_guard_fbx_import.mb and save it as use_righthand.mb, run exportmodels and D3 creates my use_righthand.md5anim. Opening that file, I can see 67 joints. Looking at the citywatch md5anims, I can also see 67 joints, so I guess that's to be expected and ok.

 

But squill, how did you get the new run animation for the builderguard to work, when the number of joints is different for these two meshes? I see that you've got 68 joints in run.md5anim too, but how did you do that? Is the fbx_import file the right one to use here when importing from FBX files?

[squill]

that's one of the things i found out. The Maya rig file i use to animate has an extra head joint (head_end) while fbx_export has not. Also the model sizes and joint positions (especially head & neck joints) are different, probably the cause of the head sinking into the collar.

 

Is the fbx_import file the right one to use here when importing from FBX files?

it should be, but i had some problems with his head. After importing anims only the head with be 90 degrees rotated so it was facing down, that's why i created builder_guard_fbx_import.mb

[greebo]

Do we need that additional head_end joint? What's it supposed to do?

 

On a related note: I could successfully apply my use_righthand animation to the builder priest and play them in-game, that model has the "right" number of 67 joints.

[Springheel]

Here's what Ascottk said on the issue:

 

There are dummy bones but they need to be attached to the mesh. Quite a few ai already have some of them. Here's a list of the dummy bones:

 

* LeftHips_Dummy

* RightHips_Dummy

* Spine_Dummy

* LeftShoulder_Dummy

* LeftArm_Dummy

* Head_End

* RightShoulder_Dummy

* RightArm_Dummy

* leftpad/rightpad (can be used if the ai do not have pauldrons)

 

 

The weighting on these don't need to be much but they have to be included in the rig so the exporter won't ignore them when exporting. It's a fairly easy thing to do, but time consuming because use have to add these joints to the def file when exporting.

 

However, the citywatch doesn't appear to have a head_end joint, so perhaps that's left over from an earlier rig?

[squill]

However, the citywatch doesn't appear to have a head_end joint, so perhaps that's left over from an earlier rig?

 

i had rather expected this to be an extra joint to be used for the helmet. So apparently the joints in this rig are not the same as the citywatch and priest. Also the fbx_import doesn't include joints LeftToe_end + RightToe_end.

[Springheel]

The builder guard doesn't have a helmet. The builder forger has an extra head-piece built into the body (for some reason) but that's the only one I'm aware of.

 

Anyway, Ascottk said it was a dummy joint, like dummy_spine, which doesn't actually control anything. It needs to be weighted to something so it isn't culled out by the export process, but if the citywatch doesn't have one, and we're using the citywatch rig now, then it should be fine to ignore it.

[squill]

i meant the helmet for the citywatch. I'm still finding a way to get the animations working properly, this probably means i have to adjust the rig to the setup with just 67 joints and the lower neck/head joint.

[Springheel]

i meant the helmet for the citywatch.

 

But the citywatch doesn't have that joint. Are you saying the citywatch animation rig has that joint but the md5mesh doesn't?

[oDDity]

Some of these have been tinkered with by different people so I can't even remember what the origina setup I did was exactly, but I'm pretty sure I had the standard motionbuilder-required rig on all of them, which is why they have extra joints like arm_roll, forearm_roll, and the _end jonts etc. They aren't necessary really, as a basic rig only needs about 17 joints apart from the hands.

 

If I'd known as much then as I did a few months later, I'd just have set up one fo those basic rigs at the start, since the complex motonbuilder rig isn't necessary and only complicates things.

 

It would be wise to do that now. Just set up a basic rig and use that for all the characters, because if other people are going to be using these as templates to make their own characters, it's best to make it as simple and clean as possible.

[New Horizon]

It would be wise to do that now. Just set up a basic rig and use that for all the characters, because if other people are going to be using these as templates to make their own characters, it's best to make it as simple and clean as possible.

 

Word.

[greebo]

Wouldn't re-rigging the AI mean that we need to re-do all animations too? I'd be afraid of that task, even if it would be nice to have a clean rig.

[oDDity]

Not necessarily. Animations in FBX format can be applied to just about any base skeleton.

[greebo]

Then the question arises if we have all existing animations in FBX format? Looking at the citywatch folder, there are many Maya Binary (.mb) files, not all of them have FBX counterparts. Is it possible to convert the mb files to fbx without "data loss"?

[squill]

Wouldn't re-rigging the AI mean that we need to re-do all animations too? I'd be afraid of that task, even if it would be nice to have a clean rig.

 

I guess the names and the numbr of joints have to be the same?

 

Is it possible to convert the mb files to fbx without "data loss"?

 

you can bake the keyframes onto the joints, although i'm not sure what settings to use to export to fbx.

[Springheel]

And what about all the md5meshes with weightmaps that would reference non-existing joints? Wouldn't all the weighting have to be redone?

[oDDity]

You'd just need to setup the base skeleton in motionbuilder and apply any animations to it there. Even if there are animaitons which only exist in maya they can be exported to motionbuilder and applied to the rigs there.

Yes ,the weightmaps would have to be redone, but there are a lot of problems with them anyway, and it's an easier task with a simpler skeleton and refined models, which it may be a good idea to do also. I'm not happy with a lot of these models now anyway so it would also be an opportunity to update them.

I guess this is all stuff that should have been done a long time ago, which ascotk was redoing things instead of sticking with the old system.

The question is do you just continue to stick with it forever or make a decision to clean things up now, because obviously the more stuff you do with this system the more work there will be in changing it.

[greebo]

I'm cool with anything our animators can agree on as "best thing to do now". I'd also be willing to offer my help, now that I have some animation software available, but I'm not very skilled with these so far. I'd need instructions about what I should do.

 

I guess ultimately, it's up to squill to decide what needs to be done here, how much work is necessary to pull this off and how much time could be saved afterwards (and whether I could be of any use in that process).