Lightgem --for The Last Time?

[oDDity]

Well that's fine then, we'll have a separate lightgem and tilting compass, both of which can be turned on and off independantly - does anyone disagree with that?

[oDDity]

..oh, and of course this means we can no longer use oonfish's mdoel.

We'll need a fancy 2d graphic for the lightgem, and a 3d model for the standalone compass.

[Springheel]

Ok, so what are we suggesting now? We have a lightgem that can be turned on and off, a compass around the lightgem that can be turned on and off, and can be set to tilt or not tilt, and another compass in inventory that can tilt?

 

How many pages long is our option menu going to be?

 

Maybe we can trim the number of options somewhat. It doesn't appear that many people are in favour of the combined compass/lightgem tilting, so why don't we remove that from the list?

 

Ok, here is my best effort to please everyone and keep this from getting out of hand. How about this:

 

Compass Option (click one)

 

[ ] -- Compass is an inventory item

 

[ ] -- Compass is combined with lightgem

 

And then we have ONE button that turns the lightgem/compass on and off. That way, people who don't want to see the compass in the HUD can choose to put the compass in inventory (AND have it tilt). They never have to see it if they don't want.

 

Those that want it on the HUD can have it there, (not tilting) and a single button will remove it (and the lightgem) to minimalize the HUD if they wish. We don't need to turn the compass off separately.

 

T1/2 purists can duplicate that version. T3 fans can duplicate their version. Pure minimalists can turn everything off. Those in the middle can have a single gem and a compass they never look at. Those that want tilting can have it. Those that don't don't have to.

 

*phew* This (I think) would be able to satisfy just about everyone, and limits the number of things we have to include in the options menu to 2. (One checkbox option and one keybind).

 

Could we all agree on this...?

[sparhawk]

Ok, so what are we suggesting now? We have a lightgem that can be turned on and off, a compass around the lightgem that can be turned on and off, and can be set to tilt or not tilt, and another compass in inventory that can tilt?

3 options.

 

CompassTilt, LightgemVisible, CompassVisible.

 

Compass in inventory is a normal inventory object and doesn't have any additional options.

[Springheel]

I was just editing as you posted that, Spar. See what you think of the above now.

[sparhawk]

I was just editing as you posted that, Spar. See what you think of the above now.

Only thing I don't like about having the compass in the inventory tilting. But I guess I can live with that.

[Springheel]

*bonks self on head*

 

I thought you were the main proponent of tilting.

 

It does keep it very true to T1/2 that way. Anyway, if you can live with it, I'm happy.

 

 

Any objections, or can we put this issue to rest?

[oDDity]

Shoot it and fucking bury it

The only snag wth this is that we're goign to need a compass and a lightgem that look good on their own as well as combined - that's not as simple as it sounds.

Unless we're going to have different models for the combined set and the separated objects.

Edited December 31, 2004 by oDDity

[sparhawk]

It does keep it very true to T1/2 that way.  Anyway, if you can live with it, I'm happy.

What I mean is, that I don't like it having the tilting compass only as inventory item (as it is in T2). But I can live with it.

Edited December 31, 2004 by sparhawk

[New Horizon]

Looks good.

[New Horizon]

This is not a FM author decision, becuase it is a PLAYERS preference. It is in the same class as which button should be the forward key. This is not decided by the author or anybody else except the player itself. And why would it be an FM author decisions? In most FMs the authors forgot to include the compass. They usually didn't leave it out on purpose they simply forgot it. If you don't believe that then go and look up the appropriate thread where I asked why in so many FMs there is no compass.

Ahh, indeed. I wasn't 100% sure as to whether or not the FM author would have to place the option for the player. What I was trying to say is that the option would be provided to the player to turn it on or off, but I thought that would be up to the FM author to include the option, but if not...all the better! It may not have come accross, but I was trying to back up that it was a player option.

[Springheel]

The only snag wth this is that we're goign to need a compass and a lightgem that look good on their own as well as combined - that's not as simple as it sounds.

 

Ah, I see what you mean. Yes, we will need three separate models for this method:

 

1. A lightgem/compass combo (Oofnish's)

 

2. A lightgem on its own

 

3. A compass for the inventory slot.

 

 

We already have #1. We'll have to see if separating the gem from Oofnish's model looks ok. If not, we can make a different one. The gems in 1 & 2 don't have to be identical.

 

*phew* Ok, crisis averted.

[sparhawk]

1. A lightgem/compass combo (Oofnish's)

 

2. A lightgem on its own

 

3. A compass for the inventory slot.

The static model from oofnish still should be seperated. After all, the point is to create a good looking gem with reflections and all this with only 2 polys. Creating a static lightgem with a full model is quite an overkill and will not look so good as it can.

[Domarius]

..oh, and of course this means we can no longer use oonfish's mdoel.

We'll need a fancy 2d graphic for the lightgem, and a 3d model for the standalone compass.

oofnish's model

We were voting for his design - I like what it oofnish's one LOOKS like. Doesn't matter how we implement it. We all voted that it should LOOK like that.

 

Votes

This poll should be split into the two seperate issues that they are. One poll for tilting, and one poll for combined.

 

Combined gem and compass

The gem and compass are GOING to be two seperate entities as far as programming (and hence, modelling) is concerned. It's for implementation reasons.

The static model from oofnish still should be seperated. After all, the point is to create a good looking gem with reflections and all this with only 2 polys. Creating a static lightgem with a full model is quite an overkill and will not look so good as it can.

So the vote should be about wether they APPEAR to be seperate entites or not. Just wanted to clear that up.

 

Tilting

T2 had tilting, and it was fine. There is a bit of tweaking there, making sure it's being seen from a high angle by default, so that you don't have to look downward to see the farthest arrow.

My main reason was if we can not tilt it, we can pre-render it and make it look way better.

I don't think there's any other real issue to debate about tilting. If the thing isn't going to be pre-rendered, it may as well tilt. It will require a bit more work, but not much.

 

Options

I'd much rather have tilting than having options for turning tilting on and off, and other stupid options.

An option screen full of petty options is going to just look like we were all arguing over silly details and couldn't decide.

I personally don't see the need for customising the experience of a game outside of control configs and player name and appearance. (modding is a seperate issue).

Having an option to turn off lockpicking makes me feel like I'm back in the days of the console video games and I can set how many lives and continues I have. I have to excercise restraint instead of being gradually convinced that the game can be played the way the designers made it.

Having an option to turn down HUD brightness is an interface issue in Thief because it can glare your vision and make it hard to see in dark areas.

Having an option to turn off a compass that is taking up 5% of screen real-estate is very petty.

 

Why don't we answer the bigger issue of people desiring a HUDless game (a totally reasonable desire, that other games have satisfied one way or another) and just make a HUD on/off toggle button or something, instead of going about it peicemeal?

I wanna see my light gem. Click, there it is. Bleh, yucky compass. Okay I'm done. Click. All gone again.

[Springheel]

Ok, this issue is put to bed. The following has been decided upon already:

 

1. There will be a player choice between * lightgem/compass combo (t3-non tilting)

or * separate compass in inventory (t1/2-tilting)

 

2. A single keybind will toggle the lightgem/compass combo on and off.

 

Just so we're clear, those issues are no longer up for discussion.

 

 

Why don't we answer the bigger issue of people desiring a HUDless game (a totally reasonable desire, that other games have satisfied one way or another) and just make a HUD on/off toggle button or something, instead of going about it peicemeal?

 

We had already talked about having a key that toggled your healthbars on and off. I don't think it would be that hard to have an option in the mainmenu for 'HUD off'. That would mean it would default off, but if you wanted to turn parts on briefly (to see how hurt you are) you could.

[sparhawk]

Ok, this issue is put to bed. The following has been decided upon already:

OK. So can you repost this in the design forum. Otherwise we will discuss it in two weeks again from scratch.

[Springheel]

Already there.